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2019 Hall of Fame Ballot

Discussion in 'MLB Baseball Forum' started by navamind, Nov 9, 2018.

  1. nynasty

    nynasty nynasty

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    ? ?

    ERA+ is a fantastic stat for showing how a pitcher performed relative to his peers, in his era. I can't think of many better indicators of how good a pitcher was in his time.
     



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  2. nynasty

    nynasty nynasty

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    I wouldn't have voted for Morris, but he was considered one of the "money" pitchers of his time. Deserved or not, it was the case.

    A 105 ERA+ doesn't exactly scream hall of famer, but then I notice old Catfish Hunter, enshrined for 30 plus years now, rocking a 104 ERA+.

    Where's the cutoff?
     
  3. navamind

    navamind Well-Known Member

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    ERA+ is a production stat lmao. it just adjusts for ballpark's and era. It's just putting ERA into context.
     
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  4. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    What? It’s putting ERA, which has its own flaws, into the proper context. Mussina pitched in the 2nd highest offensive era in history, in the AL East, with a DH. Comparing him to guys who pitched in the 60s-80s based on raw ERA doesn’t make sense.
     
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  5. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    You hope voters learn from their mistakes...which they did with Morris, but then he makes it via the same committee that some how deemed his far superior teammate, Lou Whitaker, unworthy.
     
  6. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    I agree that it does a decent job at comparing players of different eras... Still not great...

    My biggest problem with it again is that it weighs somethings way higher than I would... especially when comparing players of the same era...

    1. it weighs ball park factor way too much
    2. it weighs strike outs way too much(as all sabermetric pitching stats do- since they care way too much about using EQUAL team defenses)
    3. seems to be negatively effected by innings pitched
    4. it acts as an all purpose encompassing stat, all encompassing stats will always be bad because everyone measures what they want differently...


    IMO, the 6 most important pitching stats in order are

    1. WHIP
    2. ERA
    3. QS%( I know people hate QS- and I know its flaws, but no other stat measures consistency and this stat measures it great- even if it wasn't intended to do so)
    4. IP
    5. SO
    6. W/L Record

    IMO, that is all you need to look at... each measures something differently and when put all together it does a much better evaluation than ERA+...

    But I guess, if you just want to look at one stat, to get a feeling of who is better then ERA+ is the best we have at the moment... but it really is too flawed for me...


    and I like to see how many times a player is BEST, top 5, and top 10 in each of those 6 stats...
     
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  7. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    ERA+ is too flawed, but in your opinion the most important stat is WHIP, which treats a home run and a single exactly the same. That’s some strange logic.
     
  8. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    how is that strange logic... thing about analysis is you use multiple data to find a conclusion... Each stat tells you something different...

    and I am unsure if WHIP is more important than ERA... either way they are 1a and 1b
     
  9. calsnowskier

    calsnowskier Sarcastic F-wad

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    I like PQS over QS, but I agree that the QS is very underrated stat.
     
  10. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    yea, we have had our discussions about this in the past... I personally wont go PQS because it is not as simple and clean as QS...

    I just wish baseball(and especially baseball-references and fangraphs) would recognize the gem of a stat they have... both sites have almost took it out of their database all together
     
  11. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    Because any stat that treats a homerun the same as a single can’t be used as the most important stat in determining a pitcher’s effectiveness.
     
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  12. calsnowskier

    calsnowskier Sarcastic F-wad

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    My problem with it is that it isn’t tracked by anyone. Anytime I want to review it, I have to generate it myself. And that is time consuming since you need to study each game individually.
     
  13. calsnowskier

    calsnowskier Sarcastic F-wad

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    There is no such thing as a single catch-all stat.
     
  14. MilkSpiller22

    MilkSpiller22 Gorilla

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    if you want to be lazy and look at only one stat, I think the gray ink test might be the best...
     
  15. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    No, but one that treats homers and singles the same can be dismissed. It’s the batting average of pitching stats.
     
  16. calsnowskier

    calsnowskier Sarcastic F-wad

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    If you get any more complicated than WHIP, though, you start to introduce opinion into the calc. WHIP is a simple piece of the mosaic. You want it to be more than it is trying to be.

    Again, there is no such thing as a single catch-all stat. WHIP included.
     
  17. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    I’m not the one who said it was the most important pitching statistic.
     
  18. calsnowskier

    calsnowskier Sarcastic F-wad

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    I happen to agree that it is the most important. But I like it understanding that it doesn’t tell a complete story.

    Although, for a SP, PQS just might be the best stat, even though it too is not perfect and includes quite a bit of opinion in its calculation.
     
  19. Yanks23242

    Yanks23242 Member

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    What’s PQS?
     
  20. calsnowskier

    calsnowskier Sarcastic F-wad

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    Obscure pitching stat. Pure Quality Start.

    Basically it rates each start on a scale of 0-5 based on IP, HRs, Ks, BBs and hits. You supposed to look at the collection of scores and produce % rather than an average.

    A 0 or 1 is a disaster start while a 4 or 5 is a dominant start.