2019-2020 Official Regular Season Thread

[msgkings322]

Because I don’t want to see scrubs in the all star game.

Especially when all star game appearances most definitely are part of a player’s legacy when comparing different generations.

Fine with me, change the name.

 

[wildturkey]

 

[DJ Fieri]

You forgot JH

Thanks

 

[tlance]

And?

Then don't vote for them. It's the fans game. If enough fans want to vote someone in that you don't think should be there...so what?

If a player doesn't make the all star game because Tacko Fall got more votes, he probably isn't a solid enough all star that his legacy would be discussed.

What about Taco Fall’s legacy?

History doesn’t tend to remember context. When we look back in time and see how many all star selections players have, the assumption is that those selections were earned with stellar play. That isn’t always the case.

It is one thing for a star like Kobe to get voted in when well past their prime. I get that and I am fine with that. But Taco Fall being anywhere near the top is a bad joke.

We spend far too much time looking at accolades like all star appearances, MVPs, All Defense and All NBA selections etc. when comparing players. When accolades are given to players who aren’t deserving, it skews the way history remembers them.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Guessing this happened after some youngsters were doing Kyrie type dribbling? Don't blame him for getting pissed at times.

I've seen Lebron get upset, though, and other stars in similar situations.

I still think if he goes it might be to Denver. Porter keeps playing well and might be real tough to get him back in a deal (and have 2 Porter Jrs).

Cavs might be able to trade him, but ehh.
He's 31, making over 30M/year.
Poor defender and can’t stay healthy.

 

[Gman]

Cavs might be able to trade him, but ehh.
He's 31, making over 30M/year.
Poor defender and can’t stay healthy.

It's tough to think of any team out there that would both 1.) crave a Kevin Love and 2.) be able to absorb that salary without the costs of the transaction creeping up on any potential benefits.

I personally can't think of a team that would be eager to pull the trigger.

Which isn't to say that KLove doesn't have some real value. It's just an awkward market out there for his services based on multiple factors.

For instance: the Celtics could theoretically benefit from such an addition... but they would have to give up Marcus Smart (or Hayward) plus more pieces and picks... hell no. I'm not even a little tempted to support that.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Tonight should be fun!

 

[Wamu]

I agree he shouldn't be there based on his play. But the fans want what the fans want. I think it's fun.

It's not like the game counts. It's an exhibition game for the fans. I think some folks take it a little more seriously than it deserves.

I look at the A.S. game the same way I look at game 7 of the Finals.

 

[trojanfan12]

What about Taco Fall’s legacy?

History doesn’t tend to remember context. When we look back in time and see how many all star selections players have, the assumption is that those selections were earned with stellar play. That isn’t always the case.

It is one thing for a star like Kobe to get voted in when well past their prime. I get that and I am fine with that. But Taco Fall being anywhere near the top is a bad joke.

We spend far too much time looking at accolades like all star appearances, MVPs, All Defense and All NBA selections etc. when comparing players. When accolades are given to players who aren’t deserving, it skews the way history remembers them.

It's hilarious to me how seriously some of you take the all star game.

It's a meaningless exhibition that is supposed to be for the fans. It's a popularity contest, nothing more. So, it should be who the fans want to see.

And of the "measuring sticks" that we use, all star games are among the last and least important accolades that are brought up.

I've seen you spend pages arguing against counting something as important as championships being a big part of a players legacy, but now you want to give added importance to something something as unimportant as an all star game?

As for Tacko's legacy...he's a curiosity. He's a guy that fans, for whatever reason, have decided they like. Who knows why? But if enough fans want to see him and he gets enough to get in...good for him. Hope he has a good time with it.

 

[trojanfan12]

I look at the A.S. game the same way I look at game 7 of the Finals.

Considering how the Celtics last game 7 of the finals turned out...I don't blame you.

 

[Wamu]

Considering how the Celtics last game 7 of the finals turned out...I don't blame you.

Those are fightin' words fella! You ready for a knuckle sammich?

 

[trojanfan12]

It's tough to think of any team out there that would both 1.) crave a Kevin Love and 2.) be able to absorb that salary without the costs of the transaction creeping up on any potential benefits.

I personally can't think of a team that would be eager to pull the trigger.

Which isn't to say that KLove doesn't have some real value. It's just an awkward market out there for his services based on multiple factors.

For instance: the Celtics could theoretically benefit from such an addition... but they would have to give up Marcus Smart (or Hayward) plus more pieces and picks... hell no. I'm not even a little tempted to support that.

Yeah, I wish the Lakers had the assets to trade for him. Assuming he stayed healthy, he could put them over the top. They're in a little different situation than your C's. Outside of Kuz and AD, the Lakers are older and therefore, very much in "win now" mode. The Celtics are young and can afford wait for young guys to develop a little more or look for younger pieces to add that are on smaller deals.

It's like the teams that would really want him, don't have the assets and teams with assets, don't want him.

 

[tlance]

It's hilarious to me how seriously some of you take the all star game.

It's a meaningless exhibition that is supposed to be for the fans. It's a popularity contest, nothing more. So, it should be who the fans want to see.

And of the "measuring sticks" that we use, all star games are among the last and least important accolades that are brought up.

I've seen you spend pages arguing against counting something as important as championships being a big part of a players legacy, but now you want to give added importance to something something as unimportant as an all star game?

As for Tacko's legacy...he's a curiosity. He's a guy that fans, for whatever reason, have decided they like. Who knows why? But if enough fans want to see him and he gets enough to get in...good for him. Hope he has a good time with it.

I think it matters a great deal to the players. Being selected to the an NBA all star team is a tremendous honor.

And yeah, I would prefer if every player who makes it is deserving on some level. Because every time an undeserving player gets the nod, somebody more deserving doesn’t. And for those fringe all star types, you never know how many opportunities they will have.

And it all matters. Every accolade, every team accomplishment. Because you need to view the entire picture and consider the context too. Over reliance on any single resume line is a mistake, IMO. Whether that is championships, MVPs, or something else.

 

[tlance]

Yeah, I wish the Lakers had the assets to trade for him. Assuming he stayed healthy, he could put them over the top. They're in a little different situation than your C's. Outside of Kuz and AD, the Lakers are older and therefore, very much in "win now" mode. The Celtics are young and can afford wait for young guys to develop a little more or look for younger pieces to add that are on smaller deals.

It's like the teams that would really want him, don't have the assets and teams with assets, don't want him.

And yet, some Cleveland fans who will remain nameless are still unwilling to concede that Love’s extension hurt his trade value.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

It's hilarious to me how seriously some of you take the all star game.

It's a meaningless exhibition that is supposed to be for the fans. It's a popularity contest, nothing more. So, it should be who the fans want to see.

And of the "measuring sticks" that we use, all star games are among the last and least important accolades that are brought up.

I've seen you spend pages arguing against counting something as important as championships being a big part of a players legacy, but now you want to give added importance to something something as unimportant as an all star game?

As for Tacko's legacy...he's a curiosity. He's a guy that fans, for whatever reason, have decided they like. Who knows why? But if enough fans want to see him and he gets enough to get in...good for him. Hope he has a good time with it.

I agree, but to an extent.
The internet makes it possible to influence the outcome without it being a true popularity contest.
If players like him had to get votes the old fashion way, paper ballot, one at a time, there is no chance he would be close.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think it matters a great deal to the players. Being selected to the an NBA all star team is a tremendous honor.

It's an honor because it means the fans like them. There is nothing objective about all star game voting. It's a popularity contest.

That's why undeserving players make it from time to time. As an example, Kobe was an 18 time all star. I can think of at least 3 that were undeserved and maybe 1 or 2 more that were questionable. But the fans wanted to see him.

Heck, Magic made an all star game when he wasn't even in the league. lol

Ftr, I get why he made it, but the fact is, he wasn't even an NBA player at the time.

One thing that definitely needs to stop, imo, is bonuses for making the all star game. I think that's part of why it's given more importance than it actually deserves.

And yeah, I would prefer if every player who makes it is deserving on some level. Because every time an undeserving player gets the nod, somebody more deserving doesn’t. And for those fringe all star types, you never know how many opportunities they will have.

So would I. So would most of the folks that post here. It's why we complain about players not playing defense, etc. in the all star game. We want to see the best of the best giving their best effort against each other. But most fans aren't like us.

It's the fan's game. There really is no other argument that trumps that. Unlike virtually every other accolade that's out there, it's the one that is purely about who the fans like and want to see. Very little is about stats. Guys get a lot of votes every year that don't really deserve it, but their fans vote for them because of who they play for.

And it all matters. Every accolade, every team accomplishment. Because you need to view the entire picture and consider the context too. Over reliance on any single resume line is a mistake, IMO. Whether that is championships, MVPs, or something else.

But accolades are weighted differently. Things like championships are used more as tie breakers because they are team accomplishments and some players aren't fortunate enough to play on championship caliber teams. All Star games should be at the bottom of that because they are popularity contests.

And what's with all of this anyway...I'm usually "Get off my lawn" guy. lol

 

[trojanfan12]

I agree, but to an extent.
The internet makes it possible to influence the outcome without it being a true popularity contest.
If players like him had to get votes the old fashion way, paper ballot, one at a time, there is no chance he would be close.

You're probably right. It would certainly be more difficult to organize folks to vote for 1 particular player.

Although, I do remember when you had to actually go to a game to be able to vote and there was a lot of pressure to vote for guys from your hometown team.

Players and media aren't necessarily that much more "unbiased" than fans. Players have shown they will vote for friends/teammates and media have shown that they will hold grudges.

There really isn't a truly objective way to determine who gets in.

 

[trojanfan12]

And yet, some Cleveland fans who will remain nameless are still unwilling to concede that Love’s extension hurt his trade value.

lol

True. It's interesting. He's a good enough player that the Cavs can/should get a lot for him. So, purely from the value he can bring to a team (at least for a couple of seasons), he's worth a lot of assets and taking on that money.

But the back end of that contract could get ugly. Especially if adding him doesn't result in a title.

As I've said, if the Lakers had any assets that the Cavs would want, I would love to see them give up every one of them to get him.

But if the Lakers didn't get a title from it, I'd likely be spending the last couple of years of that contract bitching about it.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

You're probably right. It would certainly be more difficult to organize folks to vote for 1 particular player.

Although, I do remember when you had to actually go to a game to be able to vote and there was a lot of pressure to vote for guys from your hometown team.

Players and media aren't necessarily that much more "unbiased" than fans. Players have shown they will vote for friends/teammates and media have shown that they will hold grudges.

There really isn't a truly objective way to determine who gets in.

Exactly, you had to go to a game and take the time to vote.
Now, you get someone like Drake to tweet out to vote for player X, they get a million? votes from people who might never even of heard of the player.

Its a different era, different world.
But, unless you change the rules, you have to honor the results.

 

[lebron23james]

It's hilarious to me how seriously some of you take the all star game.

It's a meaningless exhibition that is supposed to be for the fans. It's a popularity contest, nothing more. So, it should be who the fans want to see.

And of the "measuring sticks" that we use, all star games are among the last and least important accolades that are brought up.

I've seen you spend pages arguing against counting something as important as championships being a big part of a players legacy, but now you want to give added importance to something something as unimportant as an all star game?

As for Tacko's legacy...he's a curiosity. He's a guy that fans, for whatever reason, have decided they like. Who knows why? But if enough fans want to see him and he gets enough to get in...good for him. Hope he has a good time with it.

"It's easy to sum it up if you're just talking about All-star game here. We're sitting here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we're talking about All-Star games. I mean listen, we're sitting here talking about All-star games, not a real game, not a playoff game, not a game, but we're talking about the All-Star game. Not a real game that I go out there and die for and play every game like it's my last but we're talking about All-star game. How silly is that? ... Now I know that I'm supposed to lead by example and all that but I'm not shoving that aside like it don't mean anything. I know it's important, I honestly do but we're talking about the All-Star game. We're talking about All-Star game man. We're talking about All-Star game. We're talking about the All-Star game.