2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[tlance]

i think he could be a solid role player if he got to those numbers.

Which is the crazy thing.

I have not suggested anytime recently that Lonzo projects as more than a high quality role player. But I think he can be just that.

Nobody would give 2nd round pick value in a trade for him today, but there is planty of upside. Enough that whoever got him would find ways to get him out on the court. Even if it meant creative multiple PG lineups.

Which was the entire basis of my point that you took issue with the other day.

 

[tlance]

Another great night of basketball.
Philly hat trick.
Sixers win, Lakers lose, Celtics lose.

I'll show myself out.....

Why do you care at all what the Lakers do?

 

[bksballer89]

Why do you care at all what the Lakers do?

Yeah I don't get it

 

[tlance]

Which is the crazy thing.

I have not suggested anytime recently that Lonzo projects as more than a high quality role player. But I think he can be just that.

Nobody would give 2nd round pick value in a trade for him today, but there is planty of upside. Enough that whoever got him would find ways to get him out on the court. Even if it meant creative multiple PG lineups.

Which was the entire basis of my point that you took issue with the other day.

LOL.

Nobody would give 2nd overall pick value.

Not 2nd round. Everybody would give that whether they wanted Lonzo or not.

 

[Sparhawk]

Why do you care at all what the Lakers do?

Yeah I don't get it

I was alive in the 70s and 80s for those rivalries.
It's in the blood to strongly dislike those teams.

It's also a bit of needling/trolling after being stomach-punched with losing another close game against the Celtics.

Not trying to be overly obnoxious. Just annoyingly obnoxious......

 

[bksballer89]

Lakers 1 game ahead of 9th place San Antonio.

If Lebron miss a few weeks then this can get real interesting.

 

[Shanemansj13]

ya know Draymond fell mostly because of worries that he lacked a position and his athleticism was not top level.

Maybe, at 28 years old, and a lot of playoff games, his athleticism just is not what it was at 23, 24, 25 years old.

The Warriors will have some interesting decisions over the next year and a half.

As long as they have their core of Curry and Klay they will be in good shape, but depending on what Durant does, itll be interesting to see what happens.

It won't be interesting it at all, if KD does or doesn't leave, Draymond is gone eventually. The thing is I don't think he is trade able, they just have to wait until 2020. He is easily the least productive players even including Iggy honestly.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Great post.

And Ball was 8 of 13 last night and 4 of 6. He seems to be more aggressive and confident when James isn't on the floor. Which is why they may need to trade him.

Or they could beef him up while Lebron is out and get more for him lol. If he isn't as aggressive when Lebron is on the court he needs to either play a 6th man role or start manning up and just being more aggressive when Lebron is in, but yes we are only 35 games in so it could take time.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Which is the crazy thing.

I have not suggested anytime recently that Lonzo projects as more than a high quality role player. But I think he can be just that.

Nobody would give 2nd round pick value in a trade for him today, but there is planty of upside. Enough that whoever got him would find ways to get him out on the court. Even if it meant creative multiple PG lineups.

Which was the entire basis of my point that you took issue with the other day.

in todays NBA- if you have a "solid role player" at point guard- that is not a good thing.

Point Guard is probably the deepest position in the league- and with how the rules are set up- its an incredibly important position- he is the guy that does the driving and kicking, the finishing at the basket, the playmaking, spreading the floor.

I can rattle off the top of my head the great point guards in the NBA and they are all

high level difference makers-

Curry, RW, Lillard, Kyrie, Paul, Lowry, Conley, Kemba, Wall, Holliday,

the combo's that are great that mostly play like point guards a decent amount of the time like-

Harden and Oladipo and Dragic, even Booker, DONCIC

-the young guys:

LaVine, SGA, DSJ, Sexton, Fox, Young, Harris, dejounte Murray, Dinwiddie, Levert, Russell, Jamal Murray, Rozier---- id take EVERY one of those guys over Ball----

the guys like Ball that are in the league are few and far between- Rondo, Rubio, Payton, Ben Simmons- maybe Exum

you want to take Ball over guys like Reggie Jackson, Bledsoe, Augustin or Corey Joseph, Teague (and some of those are VERY arguable either way) --- fine- be my guest--- but how the league is set up, the rules, how important shooting is, how important spacing is, how important the drive and kick game is- totally mitigates guys like Ball's value.

long term id rather have Ball over Derrick Roses but make no mistake Rose is KICKING HIS Ass right now. I dont even think i could make a viable ase for Ball over DaAngelo Russel at this point- at least he is shotoing 36% from 3, 41% from the field and can hit a free throw and is a drive and kick threat.

 

[tlance]

I was alive in the 70s and 80s for those rivalries.
It's in the blood to strongly dislike those teams.

It's also a bit of needling/trolling after being stomach-punched with losing another close game against the Celtics.

Not trying to be overly obnoxious. Just annoyingly obnoxious......

Fair enough.

I totally get the Celtics thing. My perspective could be way off here, but I always thought the 6ers were more of a 3rd wheel cock blocking the Celtic/Laker rivalry. Would be curious to hear what other 6er and Laker fans think about that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Seriously.....when is James just gonna fucking shave it all off? I think MJ and Kobe did it way before his current age.....

Or at least get hair replacement. He's in LA now ffs. lol

 

[WiggyRuss]

It won't be interesting it at all, if KD does or doesn't leave, Draymond is gone eventually. The thing is I don't think he is trade able, they just have to wait until 2020. He is easily the least productive players even including Iggy honestly.

if he is starting to lose his athleticism, which would not be unheard of at his age- esp. considering he has never been a high flyer in the first place, it would not be good for his defense, esp. since he has always been a little undersized.

itll be interesting to see what happens

 

[trojanfan12]

in todays NBA- if you have a "solid role player" at point guard- that is not a good thing.

I disagree to a point. I think it depends on what you have around the point guard. It's like any other position. If you have a couple star level players at other spots and a solid role player point guard, you can get away with it, especially if one of the other stars is a playmaker.

But you can't have a solid role player at point guard and only 1 other star level player. That might get you to the 2nd round, but that's about it.

 

[msgkings322]

if he is starting to lose his athleticism, which would not be unheard of at his age- esp. considering he has never been a high flyer in the first place, it would not be good for his defense, esp. since he has always been a little undersized.

itll be interesting to see what happens

This is true. If he washes out they still got tremendous value out of him for where he was picked. And they got a dynasty.

But dynasties end. Fascinating year so far. Cousins turns out to be needed not just a luxury. Plenty more story to be written
Kind of nice not knowing for sure who's going to win the title.

There's some talk that it's not athleticism so much as his many injuries piling up, especially the shoulder ones which may be why his shot is gone.

 

[bksballer89]

There is only 1 easy game on the Lakers schedule for the next 2 weeks. Have to think LBJ is out close to 2 weeks

 

[tlance]

in todays NBA- if you have a "solid role player" at point guard- that is not a good thing.

Point Guard is probably the deepest position in the league- and with how the rules are set up- its an incredibly important position- he is the guy that does the driving and kicking, the finishing at the basket, the playmaking, spreading the floor.

I can rattle off the top of my head the great point guards in the NBA and they are all

high level difference makers-

Curry, RW, Lillard, Kyrie, Paul, Lowry, Conley, Kemba, Wall, Holliday,

the combo's that are great that mostly play like point guards a decent amount of the time like-

Harden and Oladipo and Dragic, even Booker, DONCIC

-the young guys:

LaVine, SGA, DSJ, Sexton, Fox, Young, Harris, dejounte Murray, Dinwiddie, Levert, Russell, Jamal Murray, Rozier---- id take EVERY one of those guys over Ball----

the guys like Ball that are in the league are few and far between- Rondo, Rubio, Payton, Ben Simmons- maybe Exum

you want to take Ball over guys like Reggie Jackson, Bledsoe, Augustin or Corey Joseph, Teague (and some of those are VERY arguable either way) --- fine- be my guest--- but how the league is set up, the rules, how important shooting is, how important spacing is, how important the drive and kick game is- totally mitigates guys like Ball's value.

long term id rather have Ball over Derrick Roses but make no mistake Rose is KICKING HIS Ass right now. I dont even think i could make a viable ase for Ball over DaAngelo Russel at this point- at least he is shotoing 36% from 3, 41% from the field and can hit a free throw and is a drive and kick threat.

This a really good post. If every post you made was like this, you and I would get along fine. You expressed your point, backed it up with data and left it at that.

I agree with a lot of the points you make in here about the PG position and the way the game has evolved. I do not think Lonzo will ever be anywhere near the top tier of PGs because he isn't ever going to be a good enough scorer.

But, I do think he can hurdle a lot of those players you listed in the next tier IF he can do 2 things:

1) get that 3 point percentage over 35%- this one is doable for him and, IMO as much about shot selection as it is about ability. No more step back 3s Lonzo. Stick to catch and shoot when open.

2) most importantly, he needs to become a greater threat to score at the rim. That will be tougher, but also doable. It is ability to finish at the rim that opens up the drive and kick game for players like Ben simmons. He will never be Ben Simmons, but if he can put more pressure on the rim he draws help defenders which unlocks everything else he does well.

I think your position is based mostly on what you see from Lonzo today. And you aren't wrong. Because there defintely aren't 10 starting PGs in the NBA that Lonzo is currently outplaying. My position is based on his age, his "upside" and the fact that many teams would give him the opportunity to play ahead of more productive vets until he has had enough time to prove he can't do it. And we are at least a 2-3 years from that point in time, IMO.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yean....a vet like Rondo fits a lot better than Ball.

That can be chalked up to experience.

 

[msgkings322]

This a really good post. If every post you made was like this, you and I would get along fine. You expressed your point, backed it up with data and left it at that.

I agree with a lot of the points you make in here about the PG position and the way the game has evolved. I do not think Lonzo will ever be anywhere near the top tier of PGs because he isn't ever going to be a good enough scorer.

But, I do think he can hurdle a lot of those players you listed in the next tier IF he can do 2 things:

1) get that 3 point percentage over 35%- this one is doable for him and, IMO as much about shot selection as it is about ability. No more step back 3s Lonzo. Stick to catch and shoot when open.

2) most importantly, he needs to become a greater threat to score at the rim. That will be tougher, but also doable. It is ability to finish at the rim that opens up the drive and kick game for players like Ben simmons. He will never be Ben Simmons, but if he can put more pressure on the rim he draws help defenders which unlocks everything else he does well.

I think your position is based mostly on what you see from Lonzo today. And you aren't wrong. Because there defintely aren't 10 starting PGs in the NBA that Lonzo is currently outplaying. My position is based on his age, his "upside" and the fact that many teams would give him the opportunity to play ahead of more productive vets until he has had enough time to prove he can't do it. And we are at least a 2-3 years from that point in time, IMO.

I think his other point, which is correct, is that Lonzo was a bad pick at #2. And since Wiggy loves trolling Laker fans he will never stop talking over and over about it.

 

[trojanfan12]

There is only 1 easy game on the Lakers schedule for the next 2 weeks. Have to think LBJ is out close to 2 weeks

I don't think he'll be out that long, but we'll see. According to the team he is day to day.

But, they have also said that they are going to be patient and not rush him back because it's the type of injury that can recur and cause him to miss even more time.

 

[trojanfan12]

Would be curious to hear what other 6er and Laker fans think about that.

Yeah, Lakers fans, at least the ones that I know, don't really consider the Sixers rivals. There just isn't enough history, imo.

The Lakers and Celtics have history that dates back to the 60's (maybe even the 50's). In the early 80's there was the possibility of a rivalry developing between the 2, but then Bird's Celtics got good and put a stop to it.