2017 LA Rams Training Camp Thread

[Vitamike]

Comparing him to JJ Watt doesn't really support your point, as JJ got an extension at this same early juncture; he just didn't have to go through a lengthy hold out to get it. (Rams need to stop pinching pennies)

JJ Watt didn't hold out at all.

Watt, one of the best defensive linemen in the NFL and perhaps the best interior lineman in a 3-4 system, said last month that he wouldn't hold out to force the Texans to renegotiate his contract.

"That would cause me to miss time with my teammates," Watt said. "Right now, I want to practice. I want to be out here with these young guys. I want to teach them things that I know. I want to better myself. And it hasn't really come to that. I want to be a Houston Texan. I want to play football, I want to be the best I can be. I can't do that by sitting on my couch. I want to come out here and help my team.

"The business side of things is the business side. Right now I'm in football mode, so I worry about that. If the time comes that I need to get involved in the business side, I will."
Sources: Watt, Texans agree to $100M deal

I can see why you don't want to compare him to JJ.

 

[RamsFan88]

Do you think Donald would have held out if he thought the organization was going to give him the extension he deserves?

 

[Vitamike]

That contract he signed was essentially a mandated contract via slotted draft salaries. The NFL's length of rookie contracts keeps the salaries of ultra talents like Aaron Donald artificially low, which is why you get holdouts like this.

Ironically, the Rookie scale was put in place, in part, so NFL teams would be able to sign veterans in free agency, and reward rookies who deserve a payday contract extension.

AD was free to find another league to pay him, but he choose to sign with the NFL, he wasn't mandated to play for them. I'm sure he felt he got a good deal at the time, and hoped to play well enough to get an extension.

Doing the math, as this article puts it...Bonsignore: Hey Aaron Donald, the Rams aren’t budging, it’s time to get back to work – Orange County Register means Donald was offered ~$70 million in guaranteed money and, should he play out the length of the deal, pocket $118 million or so.

For point of reference, think somewhere above Ndamukong Suh’s six-year, $114.4 million deal that guarantees him $60 million, and Von Miller’s six-year, $114 million contract that guarantees him $70 million.

Turning his nose up at a deal like that could easily alienate his teammates IMO, and his fans.

 

[Vitamike]

Do you think Donald would have held out if he thought the organization was going to give him the extension he deserves?

I don't think it matters what he 'thinks' he deserves, rather is the offer the Rams are providing a deserving offer. I think it is, see the link above for details.

And no, I don't think he should have held out, but more so I think he should end his hold out now and make himself available for the Colts...

 

[RamsFan88]

The thing is, there haven't been any concrete details about the offer the Rams made to Donald. It's all been pure speculation at this point. We don't know if they have actually offered him that kind of deal or not. The fact of the matter is that Donald deserves to be the highest paid defensive player in the game or very close to it. If Donald and his agent knew the Rams were going to provide an offer like that, I doubt he would have held out. His holdout speaks volumes about the inability of the FO to put forth a contract that reflects the value of Donald's play.

Your point about Donald being able to play somewhere else, no offense, really doesn't hold any water as no other league could offer Donald the kind of money or exposure that the NFL does. You can't have your cake and eat it too with regards to the sentiment that it's a privilege to play in the NFL so he should suck it up and that the NFL is a business so any player should expect to get cut at any time because that's how the NFL operates. Donald has the opportunity to secure his financial future for himself and his family for the rest of their life, so why shouldn't he holdout and get a contract like that?

You play football in hopes of getting drafted to the NFL. The fact of the matter is he has outperformed his contract and he deserves a raise. It's not like we have any great players that are locked up with big contracts. There are always creative solutions the Rams FO can take to get Donald's extension completed. I know people keep pointing to Donald alienating his teammates, which I don't buy for a second, but what about the FO alienating the players and potential free agents by their inability to get a deal done with one of the best players in the game?

 

[SJ76]

I realize that, but Watt restructured his contract at the same point in his career as AD. Was it crying when Watt did it?

Not sure of the circumstances. Maybe Houston was more willing to get it done? Maybe the agent involved had a better relationship with management? Did JJ holdout? I can't remember.

 

[SJ76]

The X factor here is Donald's agent. Some are good, fair and some are really greedy.

 

[Vitamike]

The thing is, there haven't been any concrete details about the offer the Rams made to Donald. It's all been pure speculation at this point. We don't know if they have actually offered him that kind of deal or not. The fact of the matter is that Donald deserves to be the highest paid defensive player in the game or very close to it. If Donald and his agent knew the Rams were going to provide an offer like that, I doubt he would have held out. His holdout speaks volumes about the inability of the FO to put forth a contract that reflects the value of Donald's play.

Your point about Donald being able to play somewhere else, no offense, really doesn't hold any water as no other league could offer Donald the kind of money or exposure that the NFL does. You can't have your cake and eat it too with regards to the sentiment that it's a privilege to play in the NFL so he should suck it up and that the NFL is a business so any player should expect to get cut at any time because that's how the NFL operates. Donald has the opportunity to secure his financial future for himself and his family for the rest of their life, so why shouldn't he holdout and get a contract like that?

You play football in hopes of getting drafted to the NFL. The fact of the matter is he has outperformed his contract and he deserves a raise. It's not like we have any great players that are locked up with big contracts. There are always creative solutions the Rams FO can take to get Donald's extension completed. I know people keep pointing to Donald alienating his teammates, which I don't buy for a second, but what about the FO alienating the players and potential free agents by their inability to get a deal done with one of the best players in the game?

Did you read the article? It explains how they came upon those numbers, yes it's speculation, but it was based on what the Rams have hinted regarding the offer. (I actually think that's higher than what his position is worth and leaves little wiggle room for so many others due a raise)

So no one is arguing that AD doesn't deserve a raise, and we all know that he was offered a raise, yes those details are only known by the Rams FO, AD and AD's agent, but I can't imagine a contract offered to AD to make him a Ram for a long time doesn't provide an opportunity to secure his financial future for himself and his family for the rest of his life, and if so but lets say for instance it just doesn't provide enough guaranteed money or something like that, he should show up to camp this week and get ready for the Colts.

BTW - You are missing my point about the rookie scale, shops said it was a mandated scale, as if he had no choice, but he chose to play in the NFL because they could offer him the best contract to play football coming out of college. The scale is set, as in many industries. The fact that the team who signed the deal with him in the first place offered him a huge life altering raise two years earlier than his current contract where can pit the other 31 teams against each other, tells all that the Rams FO is not holding out, only AD.

 

[Vitamike]

Did JJ holdout? I can't remember.

No he didn't, he was actually quite the opposite to the mindset of Donald, he said he wouldn't hold out because he wanted to be there in TC to work with and help his teammates, and to help prepare so he could get better.

Sources: Watt, Texans agree to $100M deal

 

[RamsFan88]

Did you read the article? It explains how they came upon those numbers, yes it speculation, but it was based on what the Rams have hinted regarding the offer. (I actually think that's higher than what his position is worth and leaves little wiggle room for so many others due a raise)

So no one is arguing that AD doesn't deserve a raise, and we all know that he was offered a raise, yes those details are only known by the Rams FO, AD and AD's agent, but I can't imagine a contract offered to AD to make him a Ram for a long time doesn't provide an opportunity to secure his financial future for himself and his family for the rest of his life, and if so but lets say for instance it just doesn't provide enough guaranteed money or something like that, he should show up to camp this week and get ready for the Colts.

BTW - You are missing my point about the rookie scale, shops said it was a mandated scale, as if he had no choice, but he chose to play in the NFL because they could offer him the best contract to play football coming out of college. The scale is set, as in many industries. The fact that the team who signed the deal with him in the first place offered him a huge life altering raise two years earlier than his current contract where can pit the other 31 teams against each other, tells all that the Rams FO is not holding out, only AD.

I did the read the article, that's why I said there's nothing concrete on the matter and it's pure speculation. Do the Rams respect Donald's play enough that they are willing to make him the highest paid player on the defensive side of the ball?

He didn't have a choice as to what would be in the contract. Which is fine, but teams should expect to offer extensions earlier when a player of Donald's caliber performs the way he did after 3 years in the NFL or face the consequence of having said player holdout and potentially miss regular season games, training camps, etc.

If you don't value the player and can't get him locked up, expect that player to peace out once the rookie contract has expired. That's where the Rams are at right now with Donald.

 

[SJ76]

No he didn't, he was actually quite the opposite to the mindset of Donald, he said he wouldn't hold out because he wanted to be there in TC to work with and help his teammates, and to help prepare so he could get better.

Sources: Watt, Texans agree to $100M deal

I've seen agents take the best athlete with the best attitude and go greedy very fast. If you want to get a deal done, there's definitely good ways and bad ways of going about it. Now the Rams FO hasn't been my favorite in a LONG time and we all know the owner has moved the team, etc.. but if I'm Aaron Donald I'm definitely taking the attitude that JJ Watt had to get this deal done. If it doesn't happen and you've put your faith in an organization that doesn't return the favor, ask for a trade. Holding out with 2 years left just makes you look bad - like a greedy SOB.

 

[SJ76]

Has the Rams owner been greedy? Yes it appears so.


So this may not work out very good for either party.


Meanwhile, we finally have a head coach preaching WE not me and I think the players are buying into it. So basically ownership and Donald need to come to an understanding so we can start playing football.


I think AD will be back on monday for practice, but this could keep going. And if it does, the Rams have already shown they are not scared of losing aka "rebuilding".

 

[SJ76]

Meanwhile, another Clemson WR gets a large contract.

Hopkins was rewarded on Thursday when he signed a five-year contract extension worth $81 million, with $49 million guaranteed.



Thought this was interesting as well:

julio jones’ first three seasons
2011 – 13 games 54 rec 959 yards 8 tds 6 ru 56 yards
2012 – 16 games 79 rec 1198 yards 10 tds 6 ru 30 yards
2013 – 5 games 41 rec 580 yards 2 tds 1 ru 7 yards *before surgery
total – 34 games 174 rec 2737 yards 20 tds 13 ru 93 yards

sammy watkins
2014 – 16 games 65 rec 982 yards 6 tds 2 ru 8 yards
2015 – 13 games 60 rec 1047 yards 9 tds 1 ry 1 yard
2016 – 8 games 28 rec 430 yards 2 tds *after surgery
total – 37 games 153 rec 2459 yards 17 tds 3 ru 9 yards

 

[Vitamike]

If you don't value the player and can't get him locked up, expect that player to peace out once the rookie contract has expired. That's where the Rams are at right now with Donald.

I don't know if a player chooses to sit out for two season if he doesn't hurt his value more. Even then once he sits out 8 games this season is 'tolled' and his rookie deal is extended another year. So if he is prepared to take it all the way out, he may not be a FA until 2020 when he is 29. He might as well come in on Monday prepared to work.

 

[RamsFan88]

I don't know if a player chooses to sit out for two season if he doesn't hurt his value more. Even then once he sits out 8 games this season is 'tolled' and his rookie deal is extended another year. So if he is prepared to take it all the way out, he may not be a FA until 2020 when he is 29. He might as well come in on Monday prepared to work.

He won't sit out for two years. But I doubt he would want to re-sign with the Rams, especially if they go the franchise tag route.

 

[Vitamike]

He won't sit out for two years. But I doubt he would want to re-sign with the Rams, especially if they go the franchise tag route.

I'm fine with that, if the Rams even offered a deal close to what was in that article. I'm sure if he comes back before game 8 so his season isn't tolled, and he is prepared to walk after his contract is up, the Rams will tag him for a 3rd year of service to make up for his 8 games missed this year. They will be getting a bargain over the next two and a half seasons, and he can walk then.

Honestly think he is getting poor advise, you're not in talks with him are you?

 

[RamsFan88]

I'm fine with that, if the Rams even offered a deal close to what was in that article. I'm sure if he comes back before game 8 so his season isn't tolled, and he is prepared to walk after his contract is up, the Rams will tag him for a 3rd year of service to make up for his 8 games missed this year. They will be getting a bargain over the next two and a half seasons, and he can walk then.

Honestly think he is getting poor advise, you're not in talks with him are you?

I actually think he has the leverage. It's a city that wants a winner and great players on the team. The team needs to compete and they can't do that without Donald on defense. Hopefully they'll get the frameworks of a deal in place so he can come back to the team.

 

[Vitamike]

I actually think he has the leverage. It's a city that wants a winner and great players on the team. The team needs to compete and they can't do that without Donald on defense. Hopefully they'll get the frameworks of a deal in place so he can come back to the team.

And hopefully we don't over pay for a DT spot, so we can sign all the other dudes we need to in the next few years....

 

[RamsFan88]

And hopefully we don't over pay for a DT spot, so we can sign all the other dudes we need to in the next few years....

We have the cap space to lock up our core players on defense though.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

I actually think he has the leverage. It's a city that wants a winner and great players on the team. The team needs to compete and they can't do that without Donald on defense. Hopefully they'll get the frameworks of a deal in place so he can come back to the team.

And they can't compete with a DT taking up 20M+ a year either.

Remember, they still have to extend Ogletree, Johnson and Watkins after this season.

If they dump that much money into Donald, at least one of those other guys have to go because they can't afford everyone at max contracts