2016 News & Transactions

[tzill]

Turner also has some pretty massive injury concerns and us coming off a career year. The chances he regresses and/or gets hurt is quite high.

Meanwhile, the Giants problem in '16 was the bully, not offense. Get the anchor in the pen and the rest falls into place.

This.

So much this.

 

[SFGRTB]

Turner also has some pretty massive injury concerns and us coming off a career year. The chances he regresses and/or gets hurt is quite high.

Meanwhile, the Giants problem in '16 was the bully, not offense. Get the anchor in the pen and the rest falls into place.

What injury concerns? I don't like him at the estimated price tag of 5/$80-$100, but at $64M that's a great price IMO. Even if he regresses, he only needs to put up 8 WAR over the 4 years to make it worth while, and he's been a 4.2, 3.9, and 4.9 player the last 3.

This is more of a comment on how crazy it is that a reliever (well, 2 almost 3) is getting paid significantly more than his (legitimate) All-Star 3rd baseman in free agency. Just blows my mind.

 

[calsnowskier]

What injury concerns? I don't like him at the estimated price tag of 5/$80-$100, but at $64M that's a great price IMO. Even if he regresses, he only needs to put up 8 WAR over the 4 years to make it worth while, and he's been a 4.2, 3.9, and 4.9 player the last 3.

This is more of a comment on how crazy it is that a reliever (well, 2 almost 3) is getting paid significantly more than his (legitimate) All-Star 3rd baseman in free agency. Just blows my mind.

That us where the game is today. The Giants, Royals and Cubs (and Indians) have shown that an elite bully can get you rings. Pro sports are practices in imitation. Bully arms, in general, are over priced. But when the black hole on a team can be filled, is there an over pay for it?

Overstatement, but if the Giants had a legit closer last year, they could seriously have won the Series. Without one, they were an over-achiever by going out in the Divisional round.

 

[SFGRTB]

But we have a stable full of those, cheaper and better than we'd find on the FA market.

I dunno, I'm pretty happy with Melancon.

There's names out there that, while not at Melancon's level, are improvements. Logan, Joe Smith, Salas, Feliz, Howell. Rodney, Benoit were out there too. Holland.

I'm happy with Melancon, but I think there were a few guys out there who could have filled in too (probably not as well), and we could have helped the offense and defense. Then again, who knows if Turner signs that contract with SF. He's a local LA kid and probably took a big discount which in that case I would have rather just gone with Melancon.

 

[LHG]

There's names out there that, while not at Melancon's level, are improvements. Logan, Joe Smith, Salas, Feliz, Howell. Rodney, Benoit were out there too. Holland.

I'm happy with Melancon, but I think there were a few guys out there who could have filled in too (probably not as well), and we could have helped the offense and defense. Then again, who knows if Turner signs that contract with SF. He's a local LA kid and probably took a big discount which in that case I would have rather just gone with Melancon.

Have to disagree with most of the names you listed. Outside of 2011 and his brief stint with the Mets, Salas has been quite average. Rodney (who just signed with the D-Backs) is 39 and his 2016 was a microcosm of his career - he is good one year and awful the next. Howell's peripherals were deteriorating the past couple of seasons and caught up to his ERA this year. He may be a bounce back for 2017 but could be a good candidate for an overpay as well. Feliz is two seasons removed from being good. Holland needs to show that he's fully bounced back from his TJ surgery. Benoit and Logan would be, in my opinion, worth signing, but I'm fine with standing pat after Melancon.

 

[SFGRTB]

That us where the game is today. The Giants, Royals and Cubs (and Indians) have shown that an elite bully can get you rings. Pro sports are practices in imitation. Bully arms, in general, are over priced. But when the black hole on a team can be filled, is there an over pay for it?

Overstatement, but if the Giants had a legit closer last year, they could seriously have won the Series. Without one, they were an over-achiever by going out in the Divisional round.

Totally. People have always paid for pitching and recently it's been overflowing into the Pens. I still just think the bullpen wasn't a glaring hole (yes, I remember game 4. Still think that was just a collection of bad luck), and we could have strengthened a few areas that weren't as strong.

Again, I'm happy with Melancon, the bullpen looks really good to me now. But we're a bit shorthanded in the OF and 3B.

 

[calsnowskier]

There's names out there that, while not at Melancon's level, are improvements. Logan, Joe Smith, Salas, Feliz, Howell. Rodney, Benoit were out there too. Holland.

I'm happy with Melancon, but I think there were a few guys out there who could have filled in too (probably not as well), and we could have helped the offense and defense. Then again, who knows if Turner signs that contract with SF. He's a local LA kid and probably took a big discount which in that case I would have rather just gone with Melancon.

Turner and Cespedes were really the only two bats that I think would have offered an increase as big as what we got with MM. McParker deserves the shot in left if for nothing else, than as a morale boost to the system. If the org always looks outside to fill openings, the bats in the system may grow frustrated.

Signing any of the guys you listed would have just added to our bully depth, which we already have plenty of. We needed a 9th inning guy, not more 7th inning guys.

 

[LHG]

With Melancon as closer, the bullpen currently looks to be:

Lefties - Smith & Okert or Osich
Long relief, mop up - Kontos & Gearrin or Suarez or Blach
7th inning - Strickland
8th inning - Law
9th inning - Melancon

 

[calsnowskier]

Totally. People have always paid for pitching and recently it's been overflowing into the Pens. I still just think the bullpen wasn't a glaring hole (yes, I remember game 4. Still think that was just a collection of bad luck), and we could have strengthened a few areas that weren't as strong.

Again, I'm happy with Melancon, the bullpen looks really good to me now. But we're a bit shorthanded in the OF and 3B.

The bully was not a glaring hole? Were you watching?

Sure, maybe it became a whirlpool that just fed into itself, but it was an absolute dumpster fire.

 

[SFGRTB]

Turner and Cespedes were really the only two bats that I think would have offered an increase as big as what we got with MM. McParker deserves the shot in left if for nothing else, than as a morale boost to the system. If the org always looks outside to fill openings, the bats in the system may grow frustrated.

Signing any of the guys you listed would have just added to our bully depth, which we already have plenty of. We needed a 9th inning guy, not more 7th inning guys.

And I'm a big believer in Mac, and hopefully Arroyo in the near future. IDK if we had plenty of depth in the Pen when we had to turn to guys like Joe Nathan, Matt Reynolds and Mike Broadway at times.

 

[calsnowskier]

And I'm a big believer in Mac, and hopefully Arroyo in the near future. IDK if we had plenty of depth in the Pen when we had to turn to guys like Joe Nathan, Matt Reynolds and Mike Broadway at times.

Broadway failed, but the org really believed in him.

I actually liked Reynolds. Outside of one absolute blowup game, he pitched fine in the few opportunities he had.

Nathan was a flier for the ninth inning. He was not added for depth. He was added to try to catch lightning. Didn't work.

As it is now, we have Blach, Stratton, Rogers (??), Reynolds, Slania and any dumpster dives competing for the 7th and earlier.

 

[SFGRTB]

The bully was not a glaring hole? Were you watching?

Sure, maybe it became a whirlpool that just fed into itself, but it was an absolute dumpster fire.

We had great performances from a number of guys that was overshadowed by Casilla, and at the very end Romo (and at the very, very end again was just utter bad luck and management). The worst are gone, the best are still here. Replacing them with Melancon is great, I'm not disputing that. But I just think adding a few solid depth guys would have been okay.

 

[calsnowskier]

We had great performances from a number of guys that was overshadowed by Casilla, and at the very end Romo (and at the very, very end again was just utter bad luck and management). The worst are gone, the best are still here. Replacing them with Melancon is great, I'm not disputing that. But I just think adding a few solid depth guys would have been okay.

But with the innings that this rotation should be able to eat, we don't really NEED depth. We need high-end talent.

 

[Stokes1931]

The bully was not a glaring hole? Were you watching?

Sure, maybe it became a whirlpool that just fed into itself, but it was an absolute dumpster fire.

Agree with the dumpster fire.

But which offense will show up in 2017? The first half offense was brilliant, fun, energetic. The second half offense was dull, boring, lifeless. Even if the pitchers held the other team scoreless, you still gotta score to win. We did not do this in epidemic proportions post-ASB.

Still, our need was a closer. We got that. I am pretty good with the rest of the team. Let MacParker take LF for the entire year and see how they do. If they approach the ASB hitting below .200 with a combined 8 homers or less, then yeah, start dumpster diving. Other than that we are pretty set.

I am anxious to see how Slater does in ST, and how Arroyo handles himself in Sactown. Ryder Jones looked very good in the AZL, as did Garcia. Well, way better then TT15, anyway.

 

[SFGRTB]

But with the innings that this rotation should be able to eat, we don't really NEED depth. We need high-end talent.

That's playing with fire.

The way Bochy uses a bullpen, we need depth. Bochy had his best bullpen managing when we went 7 deep in the Pen and trusted everyone. I don't really want to compare any Pen to those Pens because they were so great though.

Again, I'm really happy with Melancon and it's never a bad thing to have top end talent where you can get it. I'm just saying that I would have potentially approached it differently, especially after seeing some of these contracts hitters are getting.

 

[calsnowskier]

Oh yea...

I want to give the nod to McParker, but I will have an attentive eye on Slater and Duggar (and to a lesser extent Reynolds).

 

[calsnowskier]

That's playing with fire.

The way Bochy uses a bullpen, we need depth. Bochy had his best bullpen managing when we went 7 deep in the Pen and trusted everyone. I don't really want to compare any Pen to those Pens because they were so great though.

Again, I'm really happy with Melancon and it's never a bad thing to have top end talent where you can get it. I'm just saying that I would have potentially approached it differently, especially after seeing some of these contracts hitters are getting.

But we still have decent depth. The new "core four" of MM, Smith, Law and Strick is rather capable. Osich, Okert, Kontos and Gearin offer decent depth for earlier innings and situations.

 

[SFGRTB]

But we still have decent depth. The new "core four" of MM, Smith, Law and Strick is rather capable. Osich, Okert, Kontos and Gearin offer decent depth for earlier innings and situations.

But that's my point, I think Law, Strick, and Smith are perfectly capable to handle the toughest situations, and adding a couple guys to eat up lesser innings could have been okay. Melancon strengthens that further and it's hard to get mad about that.

 

[calsnowskier]

But that's my point, I think Law, Strick, and Smith are perfectly capable to handle the toughest situations, and adding a couple guys to eat up lesser innings could have been okay. Melancon strengthens that further and it's hard to get mad about that.

Strick is not a closer. He is a GREAT 7th inning guy, or decent 8th, but not a 9th inning guy. Law has potential to be a closer some day, but he isn't tested yet. I think Smith is best suited as a 2-inning lefty (Affeldt). Hopefully Boch gets it out of his head that Smith is a LOOGY. He isn't.

While Law or Smith COULD close in a pinch or for a lower-tier team, I would not have felt comfortable going into the season with one of those guys as "the guy". Especially after what we saw last year.

Conversely, I am completely comfortable seeing what McParker can do with consistent PT. And I am very comfortable with Gorkys as the OF super-sub. Nunez as the place-holder until Arroyo takes over is more than acceptable.

 

[VASFfan]

With Melancon as closer, the bullpen currently looks to be:

Lefties - Smith & Okert or Osich
Long relief, mop up - Kontos & Gearrin or Suarez or Blach
7th inning - Strickland
8th inning - Law
9th inning - Melancon

Stratton's not a candidate for long relief? Maybe not, but I can't think of a reason why he couldn't/shouldn't be.