2016 NBA Off-Season Thread part 2

[TurnUpTheHeat]

im just speculating- they arent going to give up a wing defender like that for nothing. While shumpert had an off year last year- the year before he played really well and the Cavs - when they traded for him- thought he would be the long term starter- but Jr Smith simply played too well and took his job. The Cavs arent going to just dump salary to dump salary like other teams who give away depth for nothing.

What other championship caliber roster has given up depth for nothing?

While I agree they don't dump him, I'm calling BS on your example.

Both Mozgov and Delly were big contributors in the Finals 2 years ago, then nothing last year, and are gone.

You think Bird is better than Mozgov?

I love Bird, but he looked cooked last year. He's way to slow to be effective anymore IMO.

 

[WiggyRuss]

What other championship caliber roster has given up depth for nothing?

While I agree they don't dump him, I'm calling BS on your example.

Both Mozgov and Delly were big contributors in the Finals 2 years ago, then nothing last year, and are gone.

You think Bird is better than Mozgov?

I love Bird, but he looked cooked last year. He's way to slow to be effective anymore IMO.

of course they were big contributors in the Finals 2 years ago- the whole roster was hurt!!! you are losing 35 minutes from Kyrie, 35 minutes from Love, Shumpert couldnt raise his arm over his head with shoulder issues, --- not only that- but the end of the bench sucked- James Jones, Shawn Marion, Joe Harris, Brenden Haywood etc....

obviously those guys got healthy- and they added guys like Jefferson, Frye, Dunleavy. that and Mozgov was awful even when he played last year- dude TOTALLY lost all his confidence. Those guys couldnt even get minutes in the Finals.

I do think the fact that Mo said he was playing- and then retiring- and then playing- and now looks like he is retiring again does throw a wrench into things- though I have heard that Felder has looked great and is a freak athlete- but to assume a rookie will even play 10 minutes a game on a Championship caliber team like the Cavs is asking a lot.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I hope the nbpa steps in and takes a look at this situation.

This poor man is hurting and all the Cavs can think about is avoiding luxury tax payments and opening up a roster spot.

Bunch of fucking savages I tell ya!!

psh- if mo williams gave back every penny of his salary the Cavs would still have the highest payroll in the history of the NBA. Maybe ole Ballmer can spring for a decent small forward??

 

[trojanfan12]

well- yah- if you go back a long time- when was the last time tOSU or Alabama were not good for more than a period of one year? Its been a LONG LONG time. Everyone has blips here and there--- Ohio State and Alabama have easily been the 2 best programs in college football over the last 15 years.

Alabama records since 2000:

2000: 3-8
2001: 7-5
2002: 10-3
2003: 4-9
2004: 6-6
2005: 0-2 (10 wins vacated)
2006: 0-7 (6 wins vacated)
2007: 2-6 (5 wins vacated)

In 2008, they hired Nick Saban.

tOSU records since 2000:

2000: 8-4
2001: 7-5
2002: 14-0
2003: 11-2
2004: 8-4

Very good since with Tressell and Urban.

Btw, winning percentages since 2000:

tOSU - .820
USC - .777
Alabama - .722

 

[trojanfan12]

Prince - Purple Rain

George Michal - Faith

Lauren Hill - Miseducation

Pink Floyd - Darker side of the moon

Eagles - Hotel California

Bonus : Funkadelic - Maggot Brain for @logic

Sugar Hill Gang

Grandmaster Flash

Kurtis Blow

 

[trojanfan12]

An Oldchella fan.

Wanted to go soooooo bad. Had to work.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Alabama records since 2000:

2000: 3-8
2001: 7-5
2002: 10-3
2003: 4-9
2004: 6-6
2005: 0-2 (10 wins vacated)
2006: 0-7 (6 wins vacated)
2007: 2-6 (5 wins vacated)

In 2008, they hired Nick Saban.

tOSU records since 2000:

2000: 8-4
2001: 7-5
2002: 14-0
2003: 11-2
2004: 8-4

Very good since with Tressell and Urban.

Btw, winning percentages since 2000:

tOSU - .820
USC - .777
Alabama - .722

i def agree with you- idid put in my post last 15 years... so thats about right 2000....its not just straight record though - its big time bowl appearances, national championships, bcs games....

USC was amazing from '03 to '08 where they made either the Rose Bowl or the Orange bowl EVERY SINGLE year- which is p retty crazy---- but in the last 5 years they have made the Holliday bowl twice, the Emerald Bowl, the Las Vegas Bowl, and the Sun Bowl and have been pretty irrelevant in the national championship conversation. USC hasnt been to a good bowl game since the 2008 season.....

Looking at Alabama- pre-Saban they kinda sucked......OSU - like u said- seems ot have the most consistent success from going from Tressell almost directly to Urb.

Ohio State never quite had a run like USC did from '03-'09 but just look at this run

going backwards chronologically----

16Fiesta Bowl
15National Champisonhip playoff
14Sugar Bowl
13Orange Bowl
12- no bowl- tatoos
11Gator Bowl (slip ip)
10sugar Bowl
09Rose Bowl
08Fiesta Bowl
07BCS Title Game
06BCS Title Game
05Fiesta Bowl
2004Alamo Bowl
2003Fiesta Bowl
2002 Fiesta Bowl
01 outback

BAMA:
15 Playoff Championship
14 Sugar Bowl
13 Sugar Bowl
12 BCS title
11 BCS title
10 Capital One
09 BCS Title
08 Sugar
07 Independence- slip up
06- Independence- slip up
05 Cotton Bowl- slip up
04- Music City
03- no bowl
02- no bol
01 independence

usc
15- Holiday
14- Holiday
13 Las Vegas
12 Sun Bowl
no bowls in 10 or 11- bags of cash
09- emerald
08 rose
07 rose
06 rose
o5 rose
04 orange
03 rose
02 orange
01 las vegas

 

[trojanfan12]

i def agree with you- idid put in my post last 15 years... so thats about right 2000....its not just straight record though - its big time bowl appearances, national championships, bcs games....

USC was amazing from '03 to '08 where they made either the Rose Bowl or the Orange bowl EVERY SINGLE year- which is p retty crazy---- but in the last 5 years they have made the Holliday bowl twice, the Emerald Bowl, the Las Vegas Bowl, and the Sun Bowl and have been pretty irrelevant in the national championship conversation. USC hasnt been to a good bowl game since the 2008 season.....

Looking at Alabama- pre-Saban they kinda sucked......OSU - like u said- seems ot have the most consistent success from going from Tressell almost directly to Urb.

Ohio State never quite had a run like USC did from '03-'09 but just look at this run

going backwards chronologically----

16Fiesta Bowl
15National Champisonhip playoff
14Sugar Bowl
13Orange Bowl
12- no bowl- tatoos
11Gator Bowl (slip ip)
10sugar Bowl
09Rose Bowl
08Fiesta Bowl
07BCS Title Game
06BCS Title Game
05Fiesta Bowl
2004Alamo Bowl
2003Fiesta Bowl
2002 Fiesta Bowl
01 outback

BAMA:
15 Playoff Championship
14 Sugar Bowl
13 Sugar Bowl
12 BCS title
11 BCS title
10 Capital One
09 BCS Title
08 Sugar
07 Independence- slip up
06- Independence- slip up
05 Cotton Bowl- slip up
04- Music City
03- no bowl
02- no bol
01 independence

usc
15- Holiday
14- Holiday
13 Las Vegas
12 Sun Bowl
no bowls in 10 or 11- bags of cash
09- emerald
08 rose
07 rose
06 rose
o5 rose
04 orange
03 rose
02 orange
01 las vegas

tOSU has definitely been the most consistent over the 15 year period, hence them having the best winning percentage of the 3. Personally, I'd take what any of the 3 have accomplished over that time and be very happy.

 

[tducey]

It's amazing with how good Alabama has been the past few yrs. that there was a tie when they wheren't so good.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

of course they were big contributors in the Finals 2 years ago- the whole roster was hurt!!! you are losing 35 minutes from Kyrie, 35 minutes from Love, Shumpert couldnt raise his arm over his head with shoulder issues, --- not only that- but the end of the bench sucked- James Jones, Shawn Marion, Joe Harris, Brenden Haywood etc....

obviously those guys got healthy- and they added guys like Jefferson, Frye, Dunleavy. that and Mozgov was awful even when he played last year- dude TOTALLY lost all his confidence. Those guys couldnt even get minutes in the Finals.

I do think the fact that Mo said he was playing- and then retiring- and then playing- and now looks like he is retiring again does throw a wrench into things- though I have heard that Felder has looked great and is a freak athlete- but to assume a rookie will even play 10 minutes a game on a Championship caliber team like the Cavs is asking a lot.

End of the bench has continued to suck.

Delly was an important piece off the bench all of last season. Honestly, he will be missed more during the regular season vs the playoffs/Finals when the starters usually extend minutes.

Say what you want about Moz, but he is a big man, who created problems for the Warriors in Finals round 1.
To say he isn't a loss is incorrect.

Again, would you rather have Moz or Bird?
Delly or whoever replaced him?

 

[Heatles84]

psh- if mo williams gave back every penny of his salary the Cavs would still have the highest payroll in the history of the NBA. Maybe ole Ballmer can spring for a decent small forward??

Hard to do when you're already at the cap.

Los Angeles Clippers 2016 Salary Cap

 

[Heatles84]

It's amazing with how good Alabama has been the past few yrs. that there was a tie when they wheren't so good.

Helps when your school has a bigger budget for football then any other school in the nation. Saban's a good coach, but good lord does the man have some advantages that 95% of the other schools don't have. Don't care how many national titles he wins, I'll never put him over Meyer and Harbaugh as a better coach.

 

[WiggyRuss]

End of the bench has continued to suck.

Delly was an important piece off the bench all of last season. Honestly, he will be missed more during the regular season vs the playoffs/Finals when the starters usually extend minutes.

Say what you want about Moz, but he is a big man, who created problems for the Warriors in Finals round 1.
To say he isn't a loss is incorrect.

Again, would you rather have Moz or Bird?
Delly or whoever replaced him?

well if the end of the bench ahs continued to suck- and Mozgov and Delly couldnt even get on the floor in the Finals- I mean- you just made my argument FOR me! lol. however its just not true----- the back end players ARE a LOT LOT better as we saw- ESPECIALLY when that decision was made and we THOUGHT Mo was coming back. Jefferson MUCH better than Marion. Frye MUCH better than James Jones. Mo PLAYED OVER Delly in the Finals. Mozgov couldnt even FIND the court against the Warriors since he is SOOO FREAKING BAD in the pick and roll- the only reason he played in the first series is because they had NO CHOICE with Love out and all the injuries and lack of depth.

 

[trojanfan12]

and Mozgov and Delly couldnt even get on the floor in the Finals- I mean- you just made my argument FOR me! lol.

Considering Moz was still recovering from knee surgery that he returned too quickly from and said that Delly is more valuable in the regular season than the playoffs, he didn't make your point for you.

Btw, Mozgov has looked a little quicker and moves better than I expected. He's not going to beat anyone with his athleticism, but he's not quite the "plodder" I thought he might be.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Considering Moz was still recovering from knee surgery that he returned too quickly from and said that Delly is more valuable in the regular season than the playoffs, he didn't make your point for you.

Btw, Mozgov has looked a little quicker and moves better than I expected. He's not going to beat anyone with his athleticism, but he's not quite the "plodder" I thought he might be.

Exactly, but to Wiggy, any move the Cavs make is certified flawless.
I understand there is no way the Cavs could have matched the offers that both players got, but to say both players aren't better then who currently occupies there spot on the roster is just incorrect.


Why was Mo playing over Delly in the Finals, btw?
He contributed what?

 

[WiggyRuss]

Considering Moz was still recovering from knee surgery that he returned too quickly from and said that Delly is more valuable in the regular season than the playoffs, he didn't make your point for you.

Btw, Mozgov has looked a little quicker and moves better than I expected. He's not going to beat anyone with his athleticism, but he's not quite the "plodder" I thought he might be.

well- Mozgov was SUPPOSED to be healthy even before Love was starting last October- but obviously the injury lingered and then he lost all of his confidence- he couldnt catch a ball in the post.

The year before- he did run better than i expected him to- and against a decent amount of teams he definitely helps on defense- against a team like the Warriors though- its really hard to play him since he is just too slow in the pickn and roll coverage- i am sure that factored into their decision greatly. IN that way- even if Birdman gets 7-8 minutes- and can play some decent defense- he will give the Cavs more than Mozgov gave them against hte Warriors.

And- with Delly? REALLY? regular season? lol....cmon....I agree in that- Delly was young- plays some solid D and can shoot the 3- but how do you bring back a guy you couldnt get off your bench against the one team- the Warriors- that stands in your way?- OBviosuly they spent the most anyone ever has in history buying that 2nd round pick to bring in Felder who they are on the develoment track with. I think ideally- when Mo was still going to play- they were gonna bring Felder along more slowly- but with Mo retiring, then not retiring, then retiring- and now in limbo- obviously that has created the need for another PG on the roster since you cant trust a rookie point guard with a championship caliber team.

Chalmers or Cole would be great as a guy who plays 15 or so minutes here or there--- or maybe someone that gets bought out- or maybe omeone they trade for- who knows....right now they are discussing Shumpert with the Twolves apparently- and we know the Twolves want the rookie to start at PG eventually t------though a rubio fit o nthe Cavs- doesnt seem great as he cant really shoot.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Exactly, but to Wiggy, any move the Cavs make is certified flawless.
I understand there is no way the Cavs could have matched the offers that both players got, but to say both players aren't better then who currently occupies there spot on the roster is just incorrect.


Why was Mo playing over Delly in the Finals, btw?
He contributed what?

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...so we should have resigned Delly to play him during the regular season- when both him and Mozgov couldnt get on the floor in the Finals....LOL....talk about lunacy.

and i dont know how you can POSSIBLY say the end of the bench is not HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than in year 1----- that makes absolutely ZERO sense.

i mean- the PURE stupidity of bringing back 2 guys for a combined 100 million that could not find the court against the one team that is standing in your way is something i would only expect out of turnup and his obvious bitterness towards the Cavs.

 

[Mecca]

Sugar Hill Gang

Grandmaster Flash

Kurtis Blow

Warrant-Cherry Pie
Creed- My Sacrifice
Kool Mo D - Wild, Wild, West
Mc Lyte-Rough Neck

Whodini....

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight...so we should have resigned Delly to play him during the regular season- when both him and Mozgov couldnt get on the floor in the Finals....LOL....talk about lunacy.

and i dont know how you can POSSIBLY say the end of the bench is not HEAD AND SHOULDERS better than in year 1----- that makes absolutely ZERO sense.

i mean- the PURE stupidity of bringing back 2 guys for a combined 100 million that could not find the court against the one team that is standing in your way is something i would only expect out of turnup and his obvious bitterness towards the Cavs.

Can you fucking read?
Where did I say that they SHOULD have been brought back?
Unlike you, I am not blind to the economics involved.
I'm also not the one who ever said our owner would never let money influence a decision if it meant weakening the roster.

So, assuming all things equal, is the Cavs roster better with Delly /Moz or whoever/Bird?

You ranted about Arison/Miller for 2 years, as a reason James left, when he wasn't anything more then the bench cheerleader that he was for the Cavs.

#hypocrite

 

[WiggyRuss]

Can you fucking read?
Where did I say that they SHOULD have been brought back?
Unlike you, I am not blind to the economics involved.
I'm also not the one who ever said our owner would never let money influence a decision if it meant weakening the roster.

So, assuming all things equal, is the Cavs roster better with Delly /Moz or whoever/Bird?

You ranted about Arison/Miller for 2 years, as a reason James left, when he wasn't anything more then the bench cheerleader that he was for the Cavs.

#hypocrite

they have the HIGHEST PAYROLL IN THE HISTORY OF THE LEAgUE!!!! lol.....Arison wouldnt DREAM of spending the money Gilbert has the last 2 seasons-- and thats a HUGE reason why LEBron is in Cleveland- having an owner who will actually back up his mouth with his wallet- instead of trying to put together a championship caliber roster while cutting corners.