2016 Free Agency Talk

[shopson67]

unbelievable. maybe they should just cut Manning and Brock and trade for Davis since they have a great D.

Which is the winning QB performance?

18-41 for 265 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT
13-23 for 141 yards, 0 TD, 1 INT

Broncos barely even needed a QB to win the Super Bowl; turnovers forced by the defense and the short field provided were enough.

 

[Retroram52]

I agree Shopson. Manning's retirement puts to rest all that ridiculous speculation that he is not ready to retire and he'd somehow find the Rams a team he'd want to play for going forward. Talk about some people's fantasies taking on a life of their own including the Rams FO.

 

[Smed55]

I agree Shopson. Manning's retirement puts to rest all that ridiculous speculation that he is not ready to retire and he'd somehow find the Rams a team he'd want to play for going forward. Talk about some people's fantasies taking on a life of their own including the Rams FO.

Yay! Finally, but I'm sure Coug will still bring up that maybe Manning will come out of retirement and lead us to the promised land!

 

[27mtrcougar]

Yay! Finally, but I'm sure Coug will still bring up that maybe Manning will come out of retirement and lead us to the promised land!

Nope. Doesn't look like that's going to happen.

 

[Vitamike]

Although Warner wasn't the reason his teams defenses gave up the winning scores, he was responsible for pick 6's in both those loses. So, you can argue that had he not thrown those, his teams win both those games regardless of the defenses.

So, he is responsible for both those loses just as much as the defenses were.

Superbowl 36
First 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 3-17 and starting at the Rams 23, Kurt Warner takes the ball with narrowly a minute left in the 3rd quarter and goes 6 of 8 for 73 yards and then runs up the middle for a two yard touchdown to bring it to a one score game! Responsible for 75 yards of the 77 yards needed and then rushes for the keeper TD on the drive.

Second 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 10-17 and starting from the Rams 45, Kurt Warner takes the ball with 1 minute and 51 seconds left in the Championship game and goes 3-3 and all of the 55 yards needed to knot the game at 17.

Summary
Basically took over late in the 3rd where the Rams had just a 7.4% chance of winning went 9 of 11 for 122 yards and 2 TD's to leave his defense with a 76.2% chance of winning scoring 14 unanswered points in the 4th, only to have his defense give up in just 1:21 left, enough yards to allow Vinatieri to kick a 48 yarder for the win as time expired.

Superbowl 43
First 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 7-20 and starting at the Cardinals 13, Kurt Warner takes the ball with just 11 minutes and 30 seconds left in the 4rd quarter and goes 8 of 8 and for all of 87 yards needed for the TD to bring the score to 14-20.

The Cardinal defense gets a safety on a holding call and now the score is 16-20.

Second 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 16-20 and starting from the Cardinals 36, Kurt Warner takes the ball with 2 minutes and 53 seconds left in the Championship game and goes 1-2 and all of the 64 yards needed to take the lead 23-20.

Summary
Basically took over with just 11 and a half minutes in the 4th where the Cardinals had just a 1.1% chance of winning went 9 of 10 for 151 yards and 2 TD's to leave his defense with a 77.8% chance of winning scoring 14 unanswered points in the 4th, only to have his defense give up 78 yards, the go ahead TD to bring the score to 23-27 with just 2 1/2 minutes left to play.

Superbowl 36 & 43 Summary
So in Kurts 2 SB losses he basically finds himself down by 14 or more points effectively in the 4th quarter of both games. Throws for 18 of 21 for 273 yards, 4 TD's in Four 4th quarter Superbowl drives to either tie or take the lead and all he needs his defense to do is hold for an average of less than 2 minutes to either have a chance in OT or to win the game.

So no, you can't make that argument IMO.

When it was left to Kurt, Kurt showed up and put his teams on his shoulders, early INT's or not.

Also, let's not forget...

Superbowl 34
His defense narrowly held up in his first Superbowl, another Superbowl where Kurt was asked to win it in the 4th. Quarter giving his defense a lead to break up the tie game with all the momentum on the side of the Titans and only needing his defense to hold up for 1 minute and 48 seconds.

Thank God them Titans started at the Titans 12 and not the Titans 13!

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

Superbowl 36
First 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 3-17 and starting at the Rams 23, Kurt Warner takes the ball with narrowly a minute left in the 3rd quarter and goes 6 of 8 for 73 yards and then runs up the middle for a two yard touchdown to bring it to a one score game! Responsible for 75 yards of the 77 yards needed and then rushes for the keeper TD on the drive.

Second 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 10-17 and starting from the Rams 45, Kurt Warner takes the ball with 1 minute and 51 seconds left in the Championship game and goes 3-3 and all of the 55 yards needed to knot the game at 17.

Summary
Basically took over late in the 3rd where the Rams had just a 7.4% chance of winning went 9 of 11 for 122 yards and 2 TD's to leave his defense with a 76.2% chance of winning scoring 14 unanswered points in the 4th, only to have his defense give up in just 1:21 left, enough yards to allow Vinatieri to kick a 48 yarder for the win as time expired.

Superbowl 43
First 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 7-20 and starting at the Cardinals 13, Kurt Warner takes the ball with just 11 minutes and 30 seconds left in the 4rd quarter and goes 8 of 8 and for all of 87 yards needed for the TD to bring the score to 20-14.

The Cardinal defense gets a safety on a holding call and now the score is 20-16.

Second 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 16-20 and starting from the Cardinals 36, Kurt Warner takes the ball with 2 minutes and 53 seconds left in the Championship game and goes 1-2 and all of the 64 yards needed to take the lead 23-20.

Summary
Basically took over with just 11 and a half minutes in the 4th where the Cardinals had just a 1.1% chance of winning went 9 of 10 for 151 yards and 2 TD's to leave his defense with a 77.8% chance of winning scoring 14 unanswered points in the 4th, only to have his defense give up 78 yards, the go ahead TD to bring the score to 23-27 with just 2 1/2 minutes left to play.

Superbowl 36 & 43 Summary
So in Kurts 2 SB losses he basically finds himself down by 14 or more points effectively in the 4th quarter of both games. Throws for 18 of 21 for 273 yards, 4 TD's in Four 4th quarter Superbowl drives to either tie or take the lead and all he needs his defense to do is hold for an average of less than 2 minutes to either have a chance in OT or to win the game.

So no, you can't make that argument IMO.

When it was left to Kurt, Kurt showed up and put his teams on his shoulders, early INT's or not.

Also, let's not forget...

Superbowl 34
His defense narrowly held up in his first Superbowl, another Superbowl where Kurt was asked to win it in the 4th. Quarter giving his defense a lead to break up the tie game with all the momentum on the side of the Titans and only needing his defense to hold up for 1 minute and 48 seconds.

Thank God them Titans started at the Titans 12 and not the Titans 13!

But his pick 6's were part of the reason they were down by so much. Like I said, it's not his fault the defenses didn't hold, but if he doesn't put them in those big holes, the teams win.

That AZ pick 6 was a 10/14 pt swing at the half. That was huge.

That's all I'm saying Vita

 

[Smed55]

Superbowl 36
First 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 3-17 and starting at the Rams 23, Kurt Warner takes the ball with narrowly a minute left in the 3rd quarter and goes 6 of 8 for 73 yards and then runs up the middle for a two yard touchdown to bring it to a one score game! Responsible for 75 yards of the 77 yards needed and then rushes for the keeper TD on the drive.

Second 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 10-17 and starting from the Rams 45, Kurt Warner takes the ball with 1 minute and 51 seconds left in the Championship game and goes 3-3 and all of the 55 yards needed to knot the game at 17.
Summary
Basically took over late in the 3rd where the Rams had just a 7.4% chance of winning went 9 of 11 for 122 yards and 2 TD's to leave his defense with a 76.2% chance of winning scoring 14 unanswered points in the 4th, only to have his defense give up in just 1:21 left, enough yards to allow Vinatieri to kick a 48 yarder for the win as time expired.

Superbowl 43
First 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 7-20 and starting at the Cardinals 13, Kurt Warner takes the ball with just 11 minutes and 30 seconds left in the 4rd quarter and goes 8 of 8 and for all of 87 yards needed for the TD to bring the score to 20-14.

The Cardinal defense gets a safety on a holding call and now the score is 20-16.

Second 4th Quarter Scoring Drive:
Down 16-20 and starting from the Cardinals 36, Kurt Warner takes the ball with 2 minutes and 53 seconds left in the Championship
game and goes 1-2 and all of the 64 yards needed to take the lead 23-20.

Summary
Basically took over with just 11 and a half minutes in the 4th where the Cardinals had just a 1.1% chance of winning went 9 of 10 for 151 yards and 2 TD's to leave his defense with a 77.8% chance of winning scoring 14 unanswered points in the 4th, only to have his defense give up 78 yards, the go ahead TD to bring the score to 23-27 with just 2 1/2 minutes left to play.

Superbowl 36 & 43 Summary
So in Kurts 2 SB losses he basically finds himself down by 14 or more points effectively in the 4th quarter of both games. Throws for 18 of 21 for 273 yards, 4 TD's in Four 4th quarter Superbowl drives to either tie or take the lead and all he needs his defense to do is hold for an average of less than 2 minutes to either have a chance in OT or to win the game.

So no, you can't make that argument IMO.

When it was left to Kurt, Kurt showed up and put his teams on his shoulders, early INT's or not.

Also, let's not forget...


Superbowl 34
His defense narrowly held up in his first Superbowl, another Superbowl where Kurt was asked to win it in the 4th. Quarter giving his defense a lead to break up the tie game with all the momentum on the side of the Titans and only needing his defense to hold
up for 1 minute and 48 seconds.

Thank God them Titans started at the Titans 12 and not the Titans 13!

Wow Vita, someone did their homework and did a little research, WELL DONE

So ya Coug I will and have given credit to QB's when their team wins. I also will not blame a QB that gives his team every chance possible to win ala Kurt Flipping Warner. But whether anyone agrees with me or not Manning did not "lead" his team to a SB victory, it's totally different than the Manning led Broncos won the SB, see the difference?

 

[Smed55]

But his pick 6's were part of the reason they were down by so much. Like I said, it's not his fault the defenses didn't hold, but if he doesn't put them in those big holes, the teams win.

That AZ pick 6 was a 10/14 pt swing at the half. That was huge.

That's all I'm saying Vita

I agree with you, but all I'm saying is I won't blame a QB for a loss when he played a great game and gave his team a great chance to win. Let's agree that Arizone pick 6 was a fluke, 9 out of 10 times I say he would not have scored, unfortunately for Arizona and Warner that 1 time he did!

 

[Vitamike]

But his pick 6's were part of the reason they were down by so much. Like I said, it's not his fault the defenses didn't hold, but if he doesn't put them in those big holes, the teams win.

That AZ pick 6 was a 10/14 pt swing at the half. That was huge.

That's all I'm saying Vita

I do understand what you are saying, but in no way is it equal.

All three of the Warner Superbowls were defensive struggles.

And to score 28 points in the two 4th quarters missing only 3 passes throwing for nearly 300 yards in 4 drives and giving your team either the lead or a TD to tie it up with under two minutes is all his defense, who had played stellar all game, could ask for.

When it was do or die, Kurt took almost every snap. Kurt rose to the occasion in a stellar fashion.

Then when it was do or die in Kurt's last two Superbowls, Kurt's defenses gave up the ghost in stellar fashion.

That is the difference!

In the end, those defenses let him down, so it's not equal.

And to think, Kurt was just a yard from getting beat on the last play in his first, got beat on the last play in his second, and his defense lost the lead and only left him 29 seconds in his last.

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

It is a shame the defenses let down.

He should have 3 titles and would be in the Hall already.

 

[Retroram52]

Man Vita, I can still see those games in my head. Great memories you raise there my man! Kurt truly was a stud QB and we haven't had one like him or better since. And, only if... ...Damn it we'd have more Lombardi's!

 

[27mtrcougar]

Wow Vita, someone did their homework and did a little research, WELL DONE

So ya Coug I will and have given credit to QB's when their team wins. I also will not blame a QB that gives his team every chance possible to win ala Kurt Flipping Warner. But whether anyone agrees with me or not Manning did not "lead" his team to a SB victory, it's totally different than the Manning led Broncos won the SB, see the difference?

I never said Manning LEAD them to a Super Bowl win?? But he helped. I just disagree when you say Brock could've just as easily won the Super Bowl. You don't know that. Manning has so much more experience and does so much at the line of scrimmage that Brock can't do yet.

 

[bluepigpen]

Dwayne Allen appears to be resigning with the Colts on a 4 year contract.

 

[Smed55]

I never said Manning LEAD them to a Super Bowl win?? But he helped. I just disagree when you say Brock could've just as easily won the Super Bowl. You don't know that. Manning has so much more experience and does so much at the line of scrimmage that Brock can't do yet.

Again Manning didn't do much of anything in any of the 3 playoff games. I'm guessing that Brock could have thrown for 141 yards and no TD's and 1 interception just like Manning did, and the defense would have still won the game? I'm thinking that asking Brock to have the game that Manning did, isn't asking that much at all?

So, you just disagree that Brock couldn't have put up those same awesome numbers, really, please!

 

[ANGELAKERAMS]

Again Manning didn't do much of anything in any of the 3 playoff games. I'm guessing that Brock could have thrown for 141 yards and no TD's and 1 interception just like Manning did, and the defense would have still won the game? I'm thinking that asking Brock to have the game that Manning did, isn't asking that much at all?

So, you just disagree that Brock couldn't have put up those same awesome numbers, really, please!

Smed, he's not saying he couldn't have done the same or better in the SB.

He's saying he doesn't think Brock has the experience necessary to get by the Pats to even get to the SB, and I think he is right. Look how much Manning struggled over the years to get by them, and Manning is about as smart as they come when it comes to football. You can't think Brock would've done it first time around?

If Manning doesn't play that game, Pats are in the SB instead of Denver.

 

[27mtrcougar]

Again Manning didn't do much of anything in any of the 3 playoff games. I'm guessing that Brock could have thrown for 141 yards and no TD's and 1 interception just like Manning did, and the defense would have still won the game? I'm thinking that asking Brock to have the game that Manning did, isn't asking that much at all?

So, you just disagree that Brock couldn't have put up those same awesome numbers, really, please!

This way of thinking by you is the same thinking As when you see Davis have a few good games and declear him the Rams starter for the next decade. But like I said he's not an NFL starter. Would you want to be the coach to throw Brock into a super bowl game? What if he would have dropped a snap and lost the ball at a criticle time or something else we take for granted but could easily come undone for a guy with little expeirence. Is he going to be able to check out of a play at a criticle time at the los? These are things you can't take a chance on in the playoffs unless you have no choice.

 

[27mtrcougar]

Oh and if Brock was the starter do you really think the defense would not have a different game plan for him? They would dial up the pressure and force him into mistakes. Something they can't do with Manning. We are talking about one of the best QB's of ALL TIME. The fact he still won when everyone knows he can't make all the throws anymore should tell you how smart he is. But yeah let's start Brock what could go wrong...

 

[shopson67]

Dwayne Allen appears to be resigning with the Colts on a 4 year contract.

Crap.

Haven't heard anything more about the Bears trying to trade Bennett, that would be a solid move for the Rams depending on what the Bears are asking for in return.

 

[RamsFan88]

I'd like Green from SD to come in and be our TE, personally.

 

[shopson67]

Green reminds me too much of Cook. He never emerged even with Gates missing lots of time to injury the past few years. Green hasn't been much more than a tease to this point. Bennett is a proven commodity and still only 28 (3 years older than Green).