2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Shanemansj13]

The age difference is minor. We're talking about a year and a half. Wall is 26. Kyrie turns 25 next month. Kyrie looks great with Lebron for sure. Point Guards like him doesn't win much in this league when they're the top dog on a team.

Actually they do. Steph, Lillard, Westbrook, Harden. All are offensive first PG's. They all have pretty good jumpers to great jumpers, all can finish at the hoop and all play below average defense somewhat.

Also, the last 5 seasons, not counting this year, Wall has played in 44 more games. That is about a half a season more but seems like recently Kyrie's injury problems have gotten better.

Wall got the Wiz to the 2nd round two times but I would say he has a pretty good team around him. He isn't exactly lighting it up in the playoffs.

 

[Bolts]

Cousins on Sacramento: 'It's where I want to be'

 

[knowyourenemy]

Prime Bron, Prime Bosh, Prime Wade, slightly past prime Allen > Prime Love, nearing prime Kyrie, Prime Smith, slightly descending but still better than everyone else Bron.

Is this really a argument?

I guess technically, the Cavs are deeper.

But, without a shadow of a doubt the Heat roster is better even though they are top heavy.

Prime Wade whores prime Kyrie.

Prime Bosh is better than Prime, broken Love.

Over the hill Allen is better than Prime Jr.

Advantage Heat.

I mean, Prime Wade is so much better than Irving and Prime Bosh is so, so, so much better than Prime Love. Prime Love is unworthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Prime Bosh -- which I've now done twice in one post (Sorry Bosh). Just my opinion, but I think Bosh really opened things up for Lebron and Wade. I'm not sure they win a title at all without Bosh.

On the other hand, Love is completely expendable, in my opinion and the Cavs would have been better off short-term and long-term keeping Wiggins, Bennett, and that first rounder that the 76ers used to take TLC. But . . . Lebron keeps trying to play GM when it's pretty clear he's terrible at it and it'll probably tank the Cavaliers for a decade once he's gone (which will honestly probably be worth it since they ended up winning it all last year.)

 

[bksballer89]

Actually they do. Steph, Lillard, Westbrook, Harden. All are offensive first PG's. They all have pretty good jumpers to great jumpers, all can finish at the hoop and all play below average defense somewhat.

Also, the last 5 seasons, not counting this year, Wall has played in 44 more games. That is about a half a season more but seems like recently Kyrie's injury problems have gotten better.

Wall got the Wiz to the 2nd round two times but I would say he has a pretty good team around him. He isn't exactly lighting it up in the playoffs.

And outside of Steph who is surrounded with amazing talent, what have the others won?

This is Russ first year as the man. He's likely gone in round 1. Lilliard made the 2nd round twice (once was by extreme luck). Harden has been bounced in round every year except once since becoming the man.

Steph should be excluded from this convo due to playing with other stars on his level

 

[Mecca of the “B” Team]

Actually they do. Steph, Lillard, Westbrook, Harden. All are offensive first PG's. They all have pretty good jumpers to great jumpers, all can finish at the hoop and all play below average defense somewhat.

Also, the last 5 seasons, not counting this year, Wall has played in 44 more games. That is about a half a season more but seems like recently Kyrie's injury problems have gotten better.

Wall got the Wiz to the 2nd round two times but I would say he has a pretty good team around him. He isn't exactly lighting it up in the playoffs.

Steph has Draymond who is the primary playmaker.

Westbrook and Harden are both still averaging double digit assists, while leading their Teams in scoring.

Wall got his Teams to the playoffs as the Team's best player.

Kyrie got his Team the #1 pick and 30 wins as the Team's best player.

Lillard is on pace to sinking the Blazers to the same fate.

 

[bksballer89]

I mean, Prime Wade is so much better than Irving and Prime Bosh is so, so, so much better than Prime Love. Prime Love is unworthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as Prime Bosh -- which I've now done twice in one post (Sorry Bosh). Just my opinion, but I think Bosh really opened things up for Lebron and Wade. I'm not sure they win a title at all without Bosh.

On the other hand, Love is completely expendable, in my opinion and the Cavs would have been better off short-term and long-term keeping Wiggins, Bennett, and that first rounder that the 76ers used to take TLC. But . . . Lebron keeps trying to play GM when it's pretty clear he's terrible at it and it'll probably tank the Cavaliers for a decade once he's gone (which will honestly probably be worth it since they ended up winning it all last year.)

Wiggy is going to rip you

 

[knowyourenemy]

Actually they do. Steph, Lillard, Westbrook, Harden. All are offensive first PG's. They all have pretty good jumpers to great jumpers, all can finish at the hoop and all play below average defense somewhat.

Also, the last 5 seasons, not counting this year, Wall has played in 44 more games. That is about a half a season more but seems like recently Kyrie's injury problems have gotten better.

Wall got the Wiz to the 2nd round two times but I would say he has a pretty good team around him. He isn't exactly lighting it up in the playoffs.

Irving is worse than all 4 of the guys you mentioned. So even if they have a somewhat similar style (which I'd argue they don't . . . and I'd also disagree that Westbrook has a "pretty good" jumper), I'm not sure why they're evidence that Irving could succeed as the best player on his team. We've seen what the Cavaliers look like with Irving as the best player . . . and it isn't pretty.

 

[Wamu]

Fuck meeeechegan!!! Dammit, wrong thread again.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Of course Cleveland wouldn't trade Irving for Wall. Wall is a more pure PG and Lebron usually handles that role for the team. Lebron needs an elite scorer next to him which is what Kyrie fits in as. Everyone else gets the concept.

If you eliminate Lebron from the conversation and take the Cavaliers roster without him -- I'm confident that John Wall at PG would win more games with them than Kyrie Irving at PG.

 

[knowyourenemy]

Wiggy is going to rip you

Everything I said is true.

 

[bksballer89]

Everything I said is true.

Trust me I know that lol. The question is does Wiggy? The answer is likely no

 

[Wamu]

As far as this Irving/Wall stuff I think JW is the better pure PG but KI's a better scorer. And I don't think Wall would be putting up the assist #'s if he played for the Cavs. That team doesn't need a pass 1st PG because of LeBron. Irving's in the perfect place for his game right now.

 

[DJ Fieri]

He didn't do much before James and Love got there.

At least James (and not much else) got the Cavs to the Finals vs the Spurs the first time he was in Cleveland. I may give James shit from time to time but he has earned my respect as a great player.

 

[DJ Fieri]

the Cavs are without a doubt worse if they deal Kyrie for Wall.

Kyrie is NEVER going to average double digit assists playing with LeBron James who has the ball in his hands all the time. Kyrie is MUUUUUUUUUUUUCH better equipped to go both on the ball and off the ball.

You really think John Wall averages 10 assists playing with LeBron james- if he had half that i would be surprised- and his floor spacing ability is not close to Kyries.

I think Wall would average 8-9apg because he'd find James in a spot for him to score a lot.

 

[Heatles84]

If you eliminate Lebron from the conversation and take the Cavaliers roster without him -- I'm confident that John Wall at PG would win more games with them than Kyrie Irving at PG.

This.

 

[DJ Fieri]

Everything I said is true.

Yes. Having Irving, James, and Wiggins? James could start to decline and slide to the 3rd option and basically be the PG like he is now while Irving and Wiggins handle the scoring load.

 

[Bolts]

I'd rather have Wall over Kyrie on my team. Wall is a solid scorer(only 2ppg less than Kyrie) while also being great at setting up his teammates and great on defense. Kyrie is a great scorer because of his 3pt shooting while being a decent playmaker for his teammates. I think Wall is more of a complete player on offense and defense, but I would still love to have a player like Kyrie on the Kings.

 

[larryjohn]

I'd rather have Wall over Kyrie on my team. Wall is a solid scorer(only 2ppg less than Kyrie) while also being great at setting up his teammates and great on defense. Kyrie is a great scorer because of his 3pt shooting while being a decent playmaker for his teammates. I think Wall is more of a complete player on offense and defense, but I would still love to have a player like Kyrie on the Kings.

It was odd that Wall didn't get much consideration for the Olympic team.

 

[Bolts]

It was odd that Wall didn't get much consideration for the Olympic team.

Pure PG's who like to set up their teammates make the most sense on Olympic teams because you know they'll have enough offense as it is(and he'd still provide some scoring).

 

[DJ Fieri]

I'd rather have Wall over Kyrie on my team. Wall is a solid scorer(only 2ppg less than Kyrie) while also being great at setting up his teammates and great on defense. Kyrie is a great scorer because of his 3pt shooting while being a decent playmaker for his teammates. I think Wall is more of a complete player on offense and defense, but I would still love to have a player like Kyrie on the Kings.

It's close for me but I feel the same way. They are both great, it's like 1-a and 1-b really.

No wrong choice.