2016-17 NBA Regular Season Thread

[WiggyRuss]

Whatever Kyrie is ranked, to say he alone is a better commodity then the 3 young Lakers is insane.
Put the 3 young Lakers with James vs what the Cavs have and they're still winning the East.

Career wise Kyrie has been a great scorer.
One game of high assists is just that. One game.

of course he is. He is a multi time all star, an ALL NBA player, and one of the clutchest players in the entire league, at the age of 24.

Those 3 guys all have great potential, and all have shown great talent (besides Ingram who has barely had a chance yet)- but when you are talking about a guy who is 24 and already one of the best in the game- you dont trade that type of guy for anything. ITs what every team wants. A great player probably technically not even in his prime yet- or just entering it now. Thats the most important thing in the game and you never give that up- especially for prospects.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Who has a better chance of being in the All Star game this year?

Love or Whiteside?

dude- no one cares about whiteside- he plays on a crappy team and is irrelevant. Despite being right in the middle of his prime- he is just not one of those guys that can elevate a team. He cares more about his stats and his 2k rating then actually winning.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

dude- no one cares about whiteside- he plays on a crappy team and is irrelevant. Despite being right in the middle of his prime- he is just not one of those guys that can elevate a team. He cares more about his stats and his 2k rating then actually winning.

And he's still got a better chance of making the ASG than Love does.

 

[WiggyRuss]

i dont understand the people who thought the Trail Blazers were going to be really good.

Damian Lilalrd is a great player- but he plays less than zero defense. After that- who do they have on that team McCollum, Crabbe, Plumee, Harkless, Turner....since when did that supporting cast deserve respect? McCollum is solid- but its not like hes a game changer or anything CLOSE to a legit #2. Your collection of big men does not have 1 above average talent. Your wings are decent players but nothing special....

i just dont get the hype surrounding that team.

 

[WiggyRuss]

i bet waiters loves playing in Miami...14.5 shots a game.....i have not watched the Heat as i dont have league pass and they arent ever really on national tv anymore, but it looks like he has had some decent games lately- especially the last game against Milwaukee....but the guy is just such a chucker....so frustrating to watch becuase you can see big time talent there- but the guy has just never learned how to play as the member of a team. i ts all about him. if lebron couldnt change that i dont think anyone can.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Who has a better chance of being in the All Star game this year?

Love or Whiteside?

its an interesting debate though- take the guy with huge stats on the awful team- or take the guy who is sacrificing stats so his team can win- on the best team in the conference. classic all star debate.

 

[trojanfan12]

to make the playoffs in the EAst you had to win 44 games last year....41 in the West.

I wouldnt trade Kyrie- a bona fide all NBA player for Russell, INgram AND Randle.

Not only would Kyrie not be the 3rd best player in the West. I doubt he'd even be the 3rd best point guard.

And the team that got in with 44 wins in the East isn't winning 40 if they played in the West.

 

[WiggyRuss]

interesting thing though- is that even though the Cavs are the first team in NBA history to start the season hitting at least 10's in every game- a decent amount of their guys arent even shooting the 3 that well yet...Love, Dunleavy, Jefferson, even JR.....all of then you would think will have that number come up as the season goes on.

 

[trojanfan12]

well yah- no shit. When you have undisputedly one of the 5 best players of all time with court vision that has not been rivale since Magic Johnson that helps---- but being able to put shooters like Frye and Love around LeBron- 2 big men shooters unlike anything else he has ever played with in his entire career- you see spacing that you look at and just cant even believe your eyes.

Kyrie just dominated to. 11 assists and 0 turnovers was pretty cool for him tonight. One sequence he had an amazing bounce pass into the key for LeBron, had a devastating spin move that reminded me of Kobe's unparalleed footwork, and then got love an easy layup with a perfectly thrown lob-entry pass when the defense was fronting Love. just crazy.

LEBron has ALWAYS led the teams he has played on in points and free throws- metrics that show the effort and physicality you have to have----- this year? Kyrie is leading hte team in points, and Love in free throws (another sign how they are using Love much better)- i have to believe that is the EXACT type of thing Lebron foresaw when he got out of Miami and decided his better option was to come back to Cleveland.

All that and still only what? 4-16 without Lebron? Or is it 4-17 with the most recent loss?

 

[WiggyRuss]

All that and still only what? 4-16 without Lebron? Or is it 4-17 with the most recent loss?

well its a good thing we have LeBron AND that he has proven neigh indestructible.

its just so rare to have 2 big men on the same team that can shoot like Frye and Love....that is DEATH to teams that cant guard the perimeter with their big men. What do you do in that situation? Unless you want to single cover LeBron- SOMEONE is gonna get a wide open look- probably for a 3- and when you have a passer like lebron who sees lanes and openings that normal human beings just dont see- you can REALLY take advantage of having that kind of shooting.

 

[trojanfan12]

Kyrie IRving was 22 years and was on a Cleveland team that was obviously tanking his first years in the league.

Right now- no one could POSSIBLY say Kyrie Irving is not a top 20 player without getting laughed at. You could arguably have him in your top 10. At 24, multi-time all star, one of the clutchest players in the entire game, an All NBA player last year- he is exactly what you dream of when you draft a POTENTIALLY great player in the lottery. It is highly unlikely any of those 3 guys ever becomes near as good as Kyrie--- i am not going to say it is outright impossible- but when you have a guy who is a known commodity- who is 24 years old and already a consensus one of the best players out there- a guy who has swished the Game Winning shot of Game 7 of the Finals right in the eye of the 2 time reigning MVP- you dont give that guy up for ANYTHING. As i said- thats what you DREAM your lottery picks turn into.

None of this has anything to do with the Cavs abysmal record when Lebron doesn't play, which is what the post you quoted was about.

You should try responding to the actual posts that you quote.

 

[trojanfan12]

well its a good thing we have LeBron AND that he has proven neigh indestructible.

its just so rare to have 2 big men on the same team that can shoot like Frye and Love....that is DEATH to teams that cant guard the perimeter with their big men. What do you do in that situation? Unless you want to single cover LeBron- SOMEONE is gonna get a wide open look- probably for a 3- and when you have a passer like lebron who sees lanes and openings that normal human beings just dont see- you can REALLY take advantage of having that kind of shooting.

2 big men who can shoot the 3 and they still can't win without Lebron. Better enjoy it while you can. It's pretty obvious where the Cavs are headed when shit is left to Kyrie, Love and Tristan Kardashian.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I will say- Shumpert was a disaster last year at times- he never really got a rhythm going after breaking his wristi n the preseason and sitting out until December- but he looked terrible last year.

this year he has looked infinitely better. His 3pt shooting looks great, his athleticism looks much improved, his defense has been stifling. With Delly leaving- they needed Shumpert to play like the guy that they originally got when they totally swindled/bamboolzled Phil Jackson. Its still EXCEEDINGLY early- but thus far we have seen that guy- the guy who first came over to the CAvs and played really well- and that is very important for this team going forward.

 

[trojanfan12]

of course he is. He is a multi time all star, an ALL NBA player, and one of the clutchest players in the entire league, at the age of 24.

Those 3 guys all have great potential, and all have shown great talent (besides Ingram who has barely had a chance yet)- but when you are talking about a guy who is 24 and already one of the best in the game- you dont trade that type of guy for anything. ITs what every team wants. A great player probably technically not even in his prime yet- or just entering it now. Thats the most important thing in the game and you never give that up- especially for prospects.

Kyrie isn't as clutch as you claim. There's a lot more to being clutch than just hitting big shots.

His record when Lebron doesn't play is very un-clutch.

 

[WiggyRuss]

None of this has anything to do with the Cavs abysmal record when Lebron doesn't play, which is what the post you quoted was about.

You should try responding to the actual posts that you quote.

its not even relevant. you set up an entire team, offense, system- around LeBron and his passing- and just in its nature- LeBron is going to be sitting out the 2nd game of back to backs.

The Cavs- even WITH LeBron have historically had a hard time going into Indiana---- take LEBron off and have it coming off the 2nd night of a back to back?--- is that REALLY that surprising to you?--- or like when LeBron sat out those 10 games his first year back---- Love also sat out multiple games with his back during that time....

shit- some of those games are when Kyrie, LeBron and Love have ALL sat out like at the end of last season.

 

[trojanfan12]

its not even relevant. you set up an entire team, offense, system- around LeBron and his passing- and just in its nature- LeBron is going to be sitting out the 2nd game of back to backs.

The Cavs- even WITH LeBron have historically had a hard time going into Indiana---- take LEBron off and have it coming off the 2nd night of a back to back?--- is that REALLY that surprising to you?--- or like when LeBron sat out those 10 games his first year back---- Love also sat out multiple games with his back during that time....

shit- some of those games are when Kyrie, LeBron and Love have ALL sat out like at the end of last season.

Your post was not relevant because it had nothing to do with the post you quoted. Just as this post has nothing to do with....well...anything.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Kyrie isn't as clutch as you claim. There's a lot more to being clutch than just hitting big shots.

His record when Lebron doesn't play is very un-clutch.

Great article by Pluto talking about exactly what you are talking about- and he comes to the conclusion that- A. it doesnt realy matter- because- when it DOES matter- LeBron PLAYS.


Cleveland Cavaliers have Terry Talkin' about LeBron James and playing smart -- Terry Pluto

James returned to the Cavs for the 2014-15 season. It was rather chaotic, especially before general manager David Griffin made the big trades for J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert and Timofey Mozgov in January.

James missed nine games with a back injury. The Cavs were 3-10 when he didn't play that season.

I'm throwing that out, because the team was trying to find an identity.

The Cavs were 1-5 without James last season, and lost 103-93 when he rested in Indiana on Wednesday night.

That makes them 1-6. Let's look at those games:

1. The one victory was 99-98 over the Dallas Mavericks last season. Kyrie Irving scored 33 points. Kevin Love had 23 points and 18 rebounds. Both are maximum-contract players. They should help the Cavs win games like that at home against so-so teams.

2. They lost another game where Love, Irving and James didn't play -- that was at the end of the regular season.

3. In the games where James didn't play (since the start of the 2015-16 season), Love averaged 17.2 points and 10.1 rebounds. Irving averaged 28.1 points and 7.2 assists.

4. The most promising thing about Wednesday's loss to the Pacers was Love exploding for 27 points and 16 rebounds. He needs that kind of production when James is out.

So why does this matter?

The real story is the playoffs, and James has never missed a playoff game.

Part of the reason for that durability is that there are days off between playoff games -- no back-to-backs.

 

[trojanfan12]

Great article by Pluto talking about exactly what you are talking about- and he comes to the conclusion that- A. it doesnt realy matter- because- when it DOES matter- LeBron PLAYS.


Cleveland Cavaliers have Terry Talkin' about LeBron James and playing smart -- Terry Pluto

James returned to the Cavs for the 2014-15 season. It was rather chaotic, especially before general manager David Griffin made the big trades for J.R. Smith, Iman Shumpert and Timofey Mozgov in January.

James missed nine games with a back injury. The Cavs were 3-10 when he didn't play that season.

I'm throwing that out, because the team was trying to find an identity.

The Cavs were 1-5 without James last season, and lost 103-93 when he rested in Indiana on Wednesday night.

That makes them 1-6. Let's look at those games:

1. The one victory was 99-98 over the Dallas Mavericks last season. Kyrie Irving scored 33 points. Kevin Love had 23 points and 18 rebounds. Both are maximum-contract players. They should help the Cavs win games like that at home against so-so teams.

2. They lost another game where Love, Irving and James didn't play -- that was at the end of the regular season.

3. In the games where James didn't play (since the start of the 2015-16 season), Love averaged 17.2 points and 10.1 rebounds. Irving averaged 28.1 points and 7.2 assists.

4. The most promising thing about Wednesday's loss to the Pacers was Love exploding for 27 points and 16 rebounds. He needs that kind of production when James is out.

So why does this matter?

The real story is the playoffs, and James has never missed a playoff game.

Part of the reason for that durability is that there are days off between playoff games -- no back-to-backs.

Actually, it does matter. Not now, of course, because Lebron is still playing at a high level. However, those games that he doesn't play in are a look into a Lebronless future for the Cavs and so far, it ain't pretty.

And once again, your post had nothing to do with the post you quoted.

 

[bksballer89]

I'm not saying they might not be 2nd best, but I'll still take Toronto.
They won't be as good as the Celtics teams or Pacers teams that the Heat had to beat to get to the Finals though IMO.

Oh yeah i agree with that. Only way they can be as good or better than those teams is if they make a move

 

[WiggyRuss]

it was just unbeleivable watching Kyrie last night in person. You could see how the oppositon just had no answers. LeBron of course has some of the best court vision in the entire game- so he is going to share point guard duties with ANYONE who has ever played---- but when you see Kyrie go for 11 assists and 0 turnovers and shoot 11/15- you can see how he is really developing as a player.

pretty cool i got to see that one....the spin move he pulled over honestly reminded me so much of Kobe. I absolutely love that Kobe has embraced Kyrie is his protege....and the funny thing is- you can SEE the improvement and changes in his game.. The footwork, the midrange game----- but Kyrie is also incorporating stuff from LeBron, the vision, the passing - some of his passes were just insane last night.

As i said- after Paul George-- i can see a case for Jimmy Butler...maybe maybe you could stretch out an argument for Giannis Antetekuompo.....but really....after that- when you are looking at the East....there is no one else you would rather want as far as i see it....Maybe you could make a DeRozan argument with how great he has been playing and the step up in his game he has made?