2013 MLB All-Overrated Team

[ImSmartherThanYou]

No he deserved to miss the team because he numbers were not good enough. He had something like 29 RBI. Trust me, I know how overrated RBI can be being a Twins fan and watching Joe Mauer play a 14 inning game and never even hit with a guy on base.

Fact is, Harper's numbers were not all star game worthy. Overrated.

What is with you in want examples of things that are not backed up by stats.

Just watch sportscenter, or mlb now, baseball tonight. Or type Bryce Harper into google and read articles.

Obviously you love the guy. I am indifferent to him. Based on production he is overrated. He has far and away the worst numbers of the young stars right now.

Myers and Puig may be older but Harper already has more experience.

How dare I want objective evidence for subjective claims!!!! I have some nerve. Sorry if I'm unwilling to do your research for you.

I watch MLB Tonight every night (mainly for the entertainment value of those idiots), and they really don't fawn over Harper. When he does something good, they say "man that kid's talented" or "man that kid plays hard". When he does something bad, they comment on that too. They're not devoting an inordinate amount of time to him or going out of their way to praise him. At least not from what I've seen. If you disagree and know for a fact they have done that, I'd kindly ask that you present evidence of same so that I can alter my opinion to a more accurate position. If I'm wrong, show me I'm wrong and I'll gladly fall in line.

And sorry, but I don't "love the guy". I'm simply capable of being objective about him, which most aren't considering he seems very polarizing. I think he gets a lot of undue criticism, but I'm not out to defend his honor because I have something invested in it. Yeah, Trout is better. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Puig hasn't done enough yet, Machado is great defensively but average offensively, and Myers also has only had a quarter-season's worth of games, so there's not enough to judge him one way or another.

All are living up to the hype to varying degrees in my mind. It's a great time to be a young MLB player.

 

[Darkstone42]

It's make believe. Cal Ripken had WAR numbers, yet there was no replacement. I'm sure Lou Gehrig somehow has a WAR that's been concocted. Prince Fielder has a WAR number. Why? How? It's make believe, based on conjecture not off reality. So when BH has a solid WAR, I don't so much care. I do care about runs, runs driven in and durability. And BH has disappointed to a degree in all three areas. Along with BA and steals. Someday he might live up to his hype, but right now, he's just another outfielder, hyped for his potential, but nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to production. Making him overrated.

So you clearly have no idea how WAR is calculated, do you? The value of WAR is that it's scaled to a league average "replacement player." That means, WAR is a direct comparison of players to the current production environment in baseball. I think I remember reading that a team of replacement level players would win something like 47 games, but I might not be remembering correctly.

Just because a player never misses a game doesn't mean they cannot be measured against an average replacement player.

 

[broncosmitty]

They shouldn't be measured against anything. If you aren't replaced, by anyone, at any point in a season, what's the point? And how is it any more than conjecture?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It's make believe. Cal Ripken had WAR numbers, yet there was no replacement. I'm sure Lou Gehrig somehow has a WAR that's been concocted. Prince Fielder has a WAR number. Why? How? It's make believe, based on conjecture not off reality. So when BH has a solid WAR, I don't so much care. I do care about runs, runs driven in and durability. And BH has disappointed to a degree in all three areas. Along with BA and steals. Someday he might live up to his hype, but right now, he's just another outfielder, hyped for his potential, but nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to production. Making him overrated.

You clearly don't actually understand the philosophy behind WAR and take it way too literally. Do you always take such a strong stance on a subject you're so poorly informed about?

The bolded says it all. You have no idea how to accurately evaluate baseball hitters. Even if you don't like WAR, where is OBP? SLG? OPS+? You value steals for a corner outfielder more than OBP? You value AVG over OBP or SLG?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

If it weren't for you people that post WAR numbers, I'd never see anyone's. So I can't honestly answer your question. If he's not having a good year, why is he not overrated for the 2013 season? Doesn't make sense to me. Not really sure how it makes sense anyone.

Then you must not watch MLBN or E!SPN because both post WAR numbers pretty regularly. E!SPN regularly covers the statistic on their website, and you can sort players by WAR in their statistics section.

Whether you and mouthbreathers of you ilk like the statistic or not, it's becoming more common and accepted, and for good reason.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

They shouldn't be measured against anything. If you aren't replaced, by anyone, at any point in a season, what's the point? And how is it any more than conjecture?

You are taking the word "replacement player" entirely too literally, obviously.

 

[broncosmitty]

Keep deflecting away from Bryce Harpers Overrating for the 2013 season. It's working about as well as comparing Trout and Cabreras WAR numbers last season. (It's not working)

 

[broncosmitty]

It is safe to say WAR is basically conjecture, right?

 

[broncosmitty]

You clearly don't actually understand the philosophy behind WAR and take it way too literally. Do you always take such a strong stance on a subject you're so poorly informed about?

The bolded says it all. You have no idea how to accurately evaluate baseball hitters. Even if you don't like WAR, where is OBP? SLG? OPS+? You value steals for a corner outfielder more than OBP? You value AVG over OBP or SLG?

You list numbers that Harper isn't below average in, I've listed numbers which he is. If he weren't touted as such a remarkable 5 tool player, it wouldn't matter. But he is. And without provocation, you mentioned his defense. And how it's lacking. I've mentioned his lack of base stealing ability, inability to drive in runs(he has reasons/excuses for that sure) rather pedestrian BA, etc. Decent OBP and SLG are one thing. He has both. But decent numbers in several categories don't outweigh the massive hype he's received. And aren't going to get him out of the conversation for most overrated of 2013. (He's clearly entrenched in that conversation) WAR can keep its self out of everything, as I literally don't care about it what so ever.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Keep deflecting away from Bryce Harpers Overrating for the 2013 season. It's working about as well as comparing Trout and Cabreras WAR numbers last season. (It's not working)

Who's overrating him? Who's saying he's having a great season? He's put up good rate numbers, but has had an injury-shortened season. Who's pretending he hasn't?

You didn't need WAR to conclude Trout had a better season than Cabrera last year, just a brain. His offensive numbers were nearly as impressive as Cabrera's and he also provided elite defense and baserunning, whereas Cabrera is a liability in those two areas. If someone wants to argue Cabrera was the MVP, that's their opinion, but Trout was the best player.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

It is safe to say WAR is basically conjecture, right?

Not at all. It's not a perfect stat, but it never claims to be either. It's more of a convenient freehand to evaluate all players on an even scale that accounts for hitting, baserunning, fielding and positional value. It's a great concept.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

You list numbers that Harper isn't below average in, I've listed numbers which he is. If he weren't touted as such a remarkable 5 tool player, it wouldn't matter. But he is. And without provocation, you mentioned his defense. And how it's lacking. I've mentioned his lack of base stealing ability, inability to drive in runs(he has reasons/excuses for that sure) rather pedestrian BA, etc. Decent OBP and SLG are one thing. He has both. But decent numbers in several categories don't outweigh the massive hype he's received. And aren't going to get him out of the conversation for most overrated of 2013. (He's clearly entrenched in that conversation) WAR can keep its self out of everything, as I literally don't care about it what so ever.

He's not below average in the numbers you've listed, actually. You've completely ignore stats that he's well better than average. RBI are a team statistic and a function of opportunity. They're not a way to evaluate individual players. He hasn't performed well with RISP, but that fluctuates from year to year. Last year, for instance, he was good with RISP.

And again, I don't see everyone praising this guy and talking about him as a remarkable 5 tool player. Most people still see him as raw talent that is just starting to show what he's capable of. I think you're all so quick to judge him because of the controversy surrounding his drafting and his personality, and you're looking for things to nitpick on, and you're hearing and seeing things that aren't really there with regard to the "hype".

He was a highly touted prospect. It looks like he's the real deal. People aren't calling him an MVP yet. He's not the finished product Mike Trout is, and I think everyone is well aware of that. He's made a couple all-star teams, one he deserved and one he didn't. He's very polarizing, but I don't quite get why.

One thing's for sure: evaluating any player based almost solely out outdated measures like batting average, RBI and stolen bases is not going to give you an accurate picture of how the player is performing.

 

[broncosmitty]

No shit he hasn't performed well with RISP. He has 40 RBI. And is overrated, obviously. But please, keep teaching how he isn't. And how he isn't touted as a 5 tool player. Or that it's okay for an AllStar starter to have measley stats in categories that translate directly to team wins. You've said yourself that his defense is lacking and he doesn't drive in runs...... How is it that he's not overrated again? (You're really reaching bro)

 

[Darkstone42]

No shit he hasn't performed well with RISP. He has 40 RBI. And is overrated, obviously. But please, keep teaching how he isn't. And how he isn't touted as a 5 tool player. Or that it's okay for an AllStar starter to have measley stats in categories that translate directly to team wins. You've said yourself that his defense is lacking and he doesn't drive in runs...... How is it that he's not overrated again? (You're really reaching bro)

The Nationals as a team this season have not gotten on base. Werth is, but he was hurt. Harper is, but he was hurt. Zimmerman is doing an acceptable job of it. Everyone else has ranged from unimpressive to bad. You don't rack up RBIs when no one is on base in front of you. It really is that simple.

No one but Harper and Werth getting on base probably also contributed to Harper leading off for stretches this season. That is one of the worst RBI-producing spots in a lineup. You have the chance to drive in the 6-9 hitters, who are the four worst hitters on the team.

RBIs are a product as much of circumstance as of ability and performance. A comprehensive evaluation of a player must necessarily account for a lot more than RBIs, and in fact should probably not even consider RBIs all that heavily. The only reason good hitters tally a lot of RBIs is because they have a better chance of getting a hit than poor hitters, regardless of runners on base. But either way, runners need to be on base in the first place.

And perhaps his RISP numbers are down this year, but they were good last year, and in under 300 total at bats this season, the RISP sample size is insufficient to be conclusive anyway.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

No shit he hasn't performed well with RISP. He has 40 RBI. And is overrated, obviously. But please, keep teaching how he isn't. And how he isn't touted as a 5 tool player. Or that it's okay for an AllStar starter to have measley stats in categories that translate directly to team wins. You've said yourself that his defense is lacking and he doesn't drive in runs...... How is it that he's not overrated again? (You're really reaching bro)

A hitter can be great with RISP and still have a low RBI count if he doesn't get enough opportunities to hit with RISP. And conversely a hitter can have a high RBI total without performing well with RISP, but getting tons of opportunities.

But I wouldn't expect you to understand that. RBI don't translate directly to wins, but I wouldn't expect you to understand that either. RBI is a team statistic that is awarded to individuals. There are measures that far better indicate how a player contributes to runs scored.

He's not overrated because no one really makes a big deal about him these days. That can change, but for right now, he's really not getting enough positive publicity to say he's overrated. The only real news he made in the past month was when the Braves hit him for no reason.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

The Nationals as a team this season have not gotten on base. Werth is, but he was hurt. Harper is, but he was hurt. Zimmerman is doing an acceptable job of it. Everyone else has ranged from unimpressive to bad. You don't rack up RBIs when no one is on base in front of you. It really is that simple.

No one but Harper and Werth getting on base probably also contributed to Harper leading off for stretches this season. That is one of the worst RBI-producing spots in a lineup. You have the chance to drive in the 6-9 hitters, who are the four worst hitters on the team.

RBIs are a product as much of circumstance as of ability and performance. A comprehensive evaluation of a player must necessarily account for a lot more than RBIs, and in fact should probably not even consider RBIs all that heavily. The only reason good hitters tally a lot of RBIs is because they have a better chance of getting a hit than poor hitters, regardless of runners on base. But either way, runners need to be on base in the first place.

And perhaps his RISP numbers are down this year, but they were good last year, and in under 300 total at bats this season, the RISP sample size is insufficient to be conclusive anyway.

Unless your team is managed by Dusty Baker, in which case your worst hitter might often bat 2nd.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

How dare I want objective evidence for subjective claims!!!! I have some nerve. Sorry if I'm unwilling to do your research for you.

I watch MLB Tonight every night (mainly for the entertainment value of those idiots), and they really don't fawn over Harper. When he does something good, they say "man that kid's talented" or "man that kid plays hard". When he does something bad, they comment on that too. They're not devoting an inordinate amount of time to him or going out of their way to praise him. At least not from what I've seen. If you disagree and know for a fact they have done that, I'd kindly ask that you present evidence of same so that I can alter my opinion to a more accurate position. If I'm wrong, show me I'm wrong and I'll gladly fall in line.

And sorry, but I don't "love the guy". I'm simply capable of being objective about him, which most aren't considering he seems very polarizing. I think he gets a lot of undue criticism, but I'm not out to defend his honor because I have something invested in it. Yeah, Trout is better. That's nothing to be ashamed of. Puig hasn't done enough yet, Machado is great defensively but average offensively, and Myers also has only had a quarter-season's worth of games, so there's not enough to judge him one way or another.

All are living up to the hype to varying degrees in my mind. It's a great time to be a young MLB player.

No, its how dare you for being IGNORANT. You are not being objective. If you were objective you wouldn't act as if they kid hasn't been touted since 15. If you were objective you would know how often he is talked about on Sportscenter and how badly he has been hyped up since entering the league.

And it's YOU trying to get ME to do research for YOU. Again, if you want to be ignorant idiot look it up for yourself it is everywhere.

"5 tool player". "Swing like that of Babe Ruth".

Seriously, you clearly love the guy. Right now he is overrated. He was an all star with poor numbers. He has been deemed a 5 tool player while displaying maybe 3 so far.

Cannot believe you are trying to claim objectivity while suggesting that Bryce Harper has not been hyped up.

 

[MiamiVice]

My god.. I agree with Hockey on something... and I can't stand that clown...

Sorry bro.. at this point.. Harper is no better than Alex Gordon of the Royals.. Harper may end up being a Josh Hamilton type player.. or he may end up being Jeff Francuoer... But at this point he is massively overrated and never should have been an all star.

 

[navamind]

My god.. I agree with Hockey on something... and I can't stand that clown...

Sorry bro.. at this point.. Harper is no better than Alex Gordon of the Royals.. Harper may end up being a Josh Hamilton type player.. or he may end up being Jeff Francuoer... But at this point he is massively overrated and never should have been an all star.

Yeah, I wouldn't go that far. Unlike Francoeur, Harper's actually willing to take a few pitches and draw some walks. I'd say Gordon is a better player, but that has more to do with Gordon's great 2011 and 2012 seasons than it does regarding their 2013 performances.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

My god.. I agree with Hockey on something... and I can't stand that clown...

Sorry bro.. at this point.. Harper is no better than Alex Gordon of the Royals.. Harper may end up being a Josh Hamilton type player.. or he may end up being Jeff Francuoer... But at this point he is massively overrated and never should have been an all star.

Looks like you have joined the "smart" group for once Vice.

How does it feel?!?!?!?!? Bout time Dougy wears off of ya!!!