2013 MLB All-Overrated Team

[broncosmitty]

I'm sorry, what about my screenname?

Luckily, I don't give a shit whether or not I "lose you". I never sought to "have you".

I don't "follow" your logic Arther. Harper is the golden child of baseball. Yet he's done very little to impress in 2013. And this is a thread on Overrated players in 2013, which Harper deserves to be one of. Nothing about his numbers is impressive for an outfielder. It's impressive that so many children and prospect hounds still gush over him. But that's for a different thread.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I would expect more than .260, 17 HRs, 40 RBIs, and 6 SB from a guy (specifically and outfielder) who is an all-star and who was talked about as an MVP caliber guy this preseason.

Are his numbers good? Sure. Could he still be considered overrated? Absolutely.

You as a Reds fan should know how much stock to put into HR/RBI as opposed to something like OPS....look at Joey Votto who's about as elite as a hitter can be yet generally doesn't put up gaudy HR/RBI numbers.

 

[navamind]

You as a Reds fan should know how much stock to put into HR/RBI as opposed to something like OPS....look at Joey Votto who's about as elite as a hitter can be yet generally doesn't put up gaudy HR/RBI numbers.

And you can't ignore age relative to competition.

And 17 HR in just 85 games (or 353 PA) is pretty good. His IsoP (isolated power) is .237, which is well above the league average. Among batters with 300+ PA, he's tied with Adam Dunn for 15th.

 

[ckhokie]

You as a Reds fan should know how much stock to put into HR/RBI as opposed to something like OPS....look at Joey Votto who's about as elite as a hitter can be yet generally doesn't put up gaudy HR/RBI numbers.

I am well aware Joey's power numbers are down. They have been down since his knee injury last season. Votto wasn't in the Home Run derby this year - or any year.

He does hit over .300 and will walk well over 100 times this year, aside from being a Gold Glove caliber 1st baseman. One guy has a 4.9 WAR, while the other's is sub 2.

He also isn't pimped by the media like Harper is, nor was he in MVP talks this year. Like I said earlier, I don't think Harper's numbers are bad. I would say he is overrated, though.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I would expect more than .260, 17 HRs, 40 RBIs, and 6 SB from a guy (specifically and outfielder) who is an all-star and who was talked about as an MVP caliber guy this preseason.

Are his numbers good? Sure. Could he still be considered overrated? Absolutely.

I think the people who think he's overrated can't separate who he is as a player from who he is as a person. Bryce Harper is damn near the best 20-year-old player I've ever laid eyes on, and he plays the game as hard as anyone in the league. He has no weaknesses that I've seen. If he holds the typical career trajectory line of most players, we're looking at an incredible player here. He's already an all-star caliber talent, whose best seasons are in front of him. He's met the hype in my opinion. How can someone who's met the hype be overrated? Conversely, there are so many people who have such a problem with this guy, that he's drifted to the underrated side in my opinion.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Hate to disappoint you, but no. Ill be laughing at your expertise on Nick Swisher and Harper right thru the offseason.

Could you at least try to bring something to the table?

 

[broncosmitty]

What does age have to do with one specific year? Huge expectations were made, and they're not being met. It's very simple. Bryce Harper, for the 2013, is an overrated player.

 

[ckhokie]

I think the people who think he's overrated can't separate who he is as a player from who he is as a person. Bryce Harper is damn near the best 20-year-old player I've ever laid eyes on, and he plays the game as hard as anyone in the league. He has no weaknesses that I've seen. If he holds the typical career trajectory line of most players, we're looking at an incredible player here. He's already an all-star caliber talent, whose best seasons are in front of him. He's met the hype in my opinion. How can someone who's met the hype be overrated? Conversely, there are so many people who have such a problem with this guy, that he's drifted to the underrated side in my opinion.

I agree with the first part of your post. He is obviously a great talent. I was going along with the 2013 theme of this thread. I don't think he has lived up to all the hype, though that may be partly because I am in DC and see all of the local love he gets beyond the national. The Nats as a whole this year have been hilarious underachievers.

I've not ever been a fan of his, but that isn't to say I wouldn't want him on my team.

 

[navamind]

I am well aware Joey's power numbers are down. They have been down since his knee injury last season. Votto wasn't in the Home Run derby this year - or any year.

He does hit over .300 and will walk well over 100 times this year, aside from being a Gold Glove caliber 1st baseman. One guy has a 4.9 WAR, while the other's is sub 2.

He also isn't pimped by the media like Harper is, nor was he in MVP talks this year. Like I said earlier, I don't think Harper's numbers are bad. I would say he is overrated, though.

There's no debating who's been the better player this year between Votto and Harper, but you also have to remember that Harper has 1.9 WAR through 353 PA and Votto has 5.2 through 555 PA.

The fact that Votto "wasn't in MVP talks this year" says a lot more about "analysts" than it does about him. Votto was clearly one of the best players in the league coming into the season.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I don't "follow" your logic Arther. Harper is the golden child of baseball. Yet he's done very little to impress in 2013. And this is a thread on Overrated players in 2013, which Harper deserves to be one of. Nothing about his numbers is impressive for an outfielder. It's impressive that so many children and prospect hounds still gush over him. But that's for a different thread.

Yeah, see, you just have some irrational hatred for the guy. Don't worry, you're not alone, but on the whole, people with that attitude need to grow up. And I'm not sure that anyone should be worried about what you find impressive, since you clearly have no idea how to evaluate baseball players. He's 20 years old and has a 137 OPS+ in 353 PAs. He was the best or 2nd best player on a Nationals team last year that went to the playoffs (as a 19-year-old). His issue this year has been injuries. If he can stay healthy and on the field, he's clearly going to be a great player. All the signs are there.

 

[broncosmitty]

Could you at least try to bring something to the table?

Like what? Poor production numbers? Those are one page back. You didn't like them, so you deflected to football. It was only but a few minutes ago.

 

[navamind]

What does age have to do with one specific year? Huge expectations were made, and they're not being met. It's very simple. Bryce Harper, for the 2013, is an overrated player.

It's not very common for 19/20 year olds to make it to the majors. It's pretty rare for them to be productive players at such an age.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

What does age have to do with one specific year? Huge expectations were made, and they're not being met. It's very simple. Bryce Harper, for the 2013, is an overrated player.

Age always does and should factor into expectations. He's exceeded expectations for any sensible person (a group to which you clearly do not belong). Even if he was hailed to be a future Hall of Famer, even Hall of Famers have a learning curve when they first break into the league. Harper's numbers through his current age are right up there with the greatest who've ever broken into the league at that age.

 

[ckhokie]

The fact that Votto "wasn't in MVP talks this year" says a lot more about "analysts" than it does about him. Votto was clearly one of the best players in the league coming into the season.

Which is what this thread is about... overrated vs. underrated.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Like what? Poor production numbers? Those are one page back. You didn't like them, so you deflected to football. It was only but a few minutes ago.

You didn't provide "poor production numbers". You provided AVG, RBI and SB, which really don't tell me much of anything about him. Like I said, please bring something to the table.

 

[broncosmitty]

Yeah, see, you just have some irrational hatred for the guy. Don't worry, you're not alone, but on the whole, people with that attitude need to grow up. And I'm not sure that anyone should be worried about what you find impressive, since you clearly have no idea how to evaluate baseball players. He's 20 years old and has a 137 OPS+ in 353 PAs. He was the best or 2nd best player on a Nationals team last year that went to the playoffs (as a 19-year-old). His issue this year has been injuries. If he can stay healthy and on the field, he's clearly going to be a great player. All the signs are there.

Again, what does age have to with being overrated this season? Maybe someday, when BH grows up, and realizes he's not playing in the World Series on a daily basis, he'll stay healthy. And put up decent production numbers. But right now(which is what this thread is based on) he's an under producing young player with high expectations. It's the High expectations which have led to him being in this conversation. Not people who've noticed he hasn't met them. (He's clearly GOING to be a great player..... That may be true, but he's not right now.)

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Again, what does age have to with being overrated this season? Maybe someday, when BH grows up, and realizes he's not playing in the World Series on a daily basis, he'll stay healthy. And put up decent production numbers. But right now(which is what this thread is based on) he's an under producing young player with high expectations. It's the High expectations which have led to him being in this conversation. Not people who've noticed he hasn't met them. (He's clearly GOING to be a great player..... That may be true, but he's not right now.)

Funny, you're the first person I've ever seen complain about a player who hustles. Usually it's the other way around.

His age has to do with his "rating" because player expectations are always connected to their age. When a player is young, you expect him to have some growing pains. When a player is in his prime, you expect him to put up his best performance. When a player is old, you expect him to decline. Age is a huge part of determining if a player is over/under rated.

And again, I don't see how he's under producing. He was at worst the 2nd best player on a playoff team last year and probably should finished higher in MVP voting (MVP voters clearly underrated him), and he's had a good but injury-shortened season this year. His rate numbers are actually better than last year, which shows he's progressing and improving as a hitter. I don't see where he's under producing.

 

[broncosmitty]

It's not very common for 19/20 year olds to make it to the majors. It's pretty rare for them to be productive players at such an age.

Again, his eventual status as a high end offensive player isn't what's in question. I'm not a psychic, I have no idea what he may become. But last week Alfonso Soriano drove in 13 runs, aside from himself. BH has driven in ten more runs, of the same nature, all season. And people listed AS on the most overpaid of all time list. I don't give passes for potential when were talking about one season. (I wouldn't list Harper on an all time overrated team) I also wouldn't take Soriano off that list on account of last week.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Again, his eventual status as a high end offensive player isn't what's in question. I'm not a psychic, I have no idea what he may become. But last week Alfonso Soriano drove in 13 runs, aside from himself. BH has driven in ten more runs, of the same nature, all season. And people listed AS on the most overpaid of all time list. I don't give passes for potential when were talking about one season. (I wouldn't list Harper on an all time overrated team) I also wouldn't take Soriano off that list on account of last week.

You keep going back to things like batting average and RBI. Can you cite something of actual worth when evaluating a player? RBI is a team-influenced statistic, and batting average is a poor indicator of actual production.

 

[broncosmitty]

Funny, you're the first person I've ever seen complain about a player who hustles. Usually it's the other way around.

His age has to do with his "rating" because player expectations are always connected to their age. When a player is young, you expect him to have some growing pains. When a player is in his prime, you expect him to put up his best performance. When a player is old, you expect him to decline. Age is a huge part of determining if a player is over/under rated.

And again, I don't see how he's under producing. He was at worst the 2nd best player on a playoff team last year and probably should finished higher in MVP voting (MVP voters clearly underrated him), and he's had a good but injury-shortened season this year. His rate numbers are actually better than last year, which shows he's progressing and improving as a hitter. I don't see where he's under producing.

I can see that you don't. He's already had a season end prematurely due to injury. He missed a number of games on account of how he "hustles". (Seperate from the knee injury) but to view his numbers with a bias towards where he's at in his career(and an assumption of where he will eventually be) does not seem practical for a single season overrated player list.