2013 MLB All-Overrated Team

[broncosmitty]

Funny, you're the first person I've ever seen complain about a player who hustles. Usually it's the other way around.

His age has to do with his "rating" because player expectations are always connected to their age. When a player is young, you expect him to have some growing pains. When a player is in his prime, you expect him to put up his best performance. When a player is old, you expect him to decline. Age is a huge part of determining if a player is over/under rated.

And again, I don't see how he's under producing. He was at worst the 2nd best player on a playoff team last year and probably should finished higher in MVP voting (MVP voters clearly underrated him), and he's had a good but injury-shortened season this year. His rate numbers are actually better than last year, which shows he's progressing and improving as a hitter. I don't see where he's under producing.

You keep going back to things like batting average and RBI. Can you cite something of actual worth when evaluating a player? RBI is a team-influenced statistic, and batting average is a poor indicator of actual production.

So his OPS is what should be evaluated? As its one of his statistics which aren't below expectations.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I can see that you don't. He's already had a season end prematurely due to injury. He missed a number of games on account of how he "hustles". (Seperate from the knee injury) but to view his numbers with a bias towards where he's at in his career(and an assumption of where he will eventually be) does not seem practical for a single season overrated player list.

Is that true? Didn't he get called up late April last year which is the reason why he played 139 games last year?

 

[bravesfan]

I dont agree with Justin Upton being on the list, batting .270 with 23 HRs...he's right around his career average

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Just for perspective, of players with a minimum of 800 plate appearances through their age 20 season:

Player - OPS+, PAs
Cobb - 145, 1206
Mantle - 144, 1012
Ott - 144, 1416
A-Rod - 136, 885
Conigliaro - 135, 1029
Magee - 130, 1066
Harper - 125, 950
Griffey - 124, 1172
Kaline - 124, 1246
Pinson - 124, 816

That's pretty good company, and helps gauge what's typically expected of 17-20 year olds in the Majors. I'm not sure how anyone can possibly construe that this is underachieving.

So, in summary, once he was called up to the Majors last season, he was either the best player or the 2nd best player on the team that won the most games in the Majors, which makes him worthy of appearing on MVP ballots, and he's shown a progression in his hitting performance this season, though also being injured for a good portion of the season.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I can see that you don't. He's already had a season end prematurely due to injury. He missed a number of games on account of how he "hustles". (Seperate from the knee injury) but to view his numbers with a bias towards where he's at in his career(and an assumption of where he will eventually be) does not seem practical for a single season overrated player list.

But a player's age always factors into his expectations, as they should, because expectations are heavily based on where a player is at in their career. You should not compare the expectations of a 20 year old to a 28 year old at face value. Different things are expected of each player. Miguel Cabrera is in his prime, therefore, you expect him to have a prime season. Ichiro Suzuki is near the end of his career, therefore, you expect a dip in his performance. When a player is 20 years old, you expect them to have some bumps along the way, but to show progress.

Also, when else has he had a season end prematurely? Please enlighten me.

 

[broncosmitty]

Is that true? Didn't he get called up late April last year which is the reason why he played 139 games last year?

I was referencing 2011, when he ended the season on the DL, in the minor leagues. I don't know when he was called up last year.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I also think Harper is overrated right now.

The guy is a great player. Will be a stud. But he's treated like god right now. I think other teams are having the same thinking. It's why the Braves are tossing at him. He's cocky and thinks hes a superstar already.

He can be deemed over rated for the simple fact that his numbers were not worthy of the all star game. he was completely overrated with the fan vote.

Whatever your expectation are for a 20 year old it really doesn't matter. This kid has been hyped from the get go and so far hasn't WOWED anyone. Trout, Machado, Puig, Myers are all making the jumps bigger.

Sure, Puig and Myers are a whole two years older pretty much but based on expectations and what was layed out...Harper is clearly the most overrated right now.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I was referencing 2011, when he ended the season on the DL, in the minor leagues. I don't know when he was called up last year.

Who gives a shit about the minor leagues? I smell some weak backtracking here because you saw he only played 139 games last year and assumed he was hurt.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

So his OPS is what should be evaluated? As its one of his statistics which aren't below expectations.

It's a much more telling and important statistic than batting average, RBI or stolen bases. Actually, it tells me more about a hitter than those three statistics combined.

We don't have to look only at OPS/OPS+. He's also put up a respectable AVG, good OBP, good SLG, good wOBA, good WAR. He rates well in plenty of valuable statistics. His HR rate is impressive, his ISO is impressive. His K% and BB% are great for a young player. He's been a bad basestealer but is an otherwise competent baserunner. The one area where he's shown his age is on defense, where he's made some mistakes typical of a young kid, but he's also only been playing the position for 2 years, so...

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I also think Harper is overrated right now.

The guy is a great player. Will be a stud. But he's treated like god right now. I think other teams are having the same thinking. It's why the Braves are tossing at him. He's cocky and thinks hes a superstar already.

He can be deemed over rated for the simple fact that his numbers were not worthy of the all star game. he was completely overrated with the fan vote.

Whatever your expectation are for a 20 year old it really doesn't matter. This kid has been hyped from the get go and so far hasn't WOWED anyone. Trout, Machado, Puig, Myers are all making the jumps bigger.

Sure, Puig and Myers are a whole two years older pretty much but based on expectations and what was layed out...Harper is clearly the most overrated right now.

By who, other than DC media??? I haven't seen anyone erect a shrine to him.

As for his ASG selection, you need to remember that the voting starts way too early in the season, and that's when Harper built the bulk of his votes, and it was before his injury. Before his injury, he was well on his way to earning a roster spot. His voting then dropped off after the injury, but not enough for someone to surprass him.

While he might not have wowed some people who are deliberately looking for flaws, he certainly has wowed plenty of people who are stunned at how polished and accomplished a player he is at such a young age. I've only seen a couple 20 year olds do what I've seen him do.

 

[broncosmitty]

Who gives a shit about the minor leagues? I smell some weak backtracking here because you saw he only played 139 games last year and assumed he was hurt.

Backtracking? How's that? He's been hurt, quite a bit, this season, which is 2013. And the year before last, 2011, he ended the season on the DL. That's a lot of missed time for a youngster who's basically still made of cartilage. Where are you getting that I assumed he missed time last year? Were you unaware of his 2011 injury history? He's your boy, not mine. I don't care what his call up date was. But I am starting to get a kick out of how much you need to defend him. It's cute.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

By who, other than DC media??? I haven't seen anyone erect a shrine to him.

As for his ASG selection, you need to remember that the voting starts way too early in the season, and that's when Harper built the bulk of his votes, and it was before his injury. Before his injury, he was well on his way to earning a roster spot. His voting then dropped off after the injury, but not enough for someone to surprass him.

While he might not have wowed some people who are deliberately looking for flaws, he certainly has wowed plenty of people who are stunned at how polished and accomplished a player he is at such a young age. I've only seen a couple 20 year olds do what I've seen him do.

Justin Upton has a hot start and tailed off in the votes and didn't make it. Harper started for gods sake.

Him and Trout are going to be ALL Star starters basically every year no matter performance it is what it is.

I never said anyone made a shrine for him but the media hype he gets is ridiculous. So far he hasn't backed up the hype. Really isn't his fault since some people are moronic thinking a 20 year old is going to come out and just drop 45 dingers on command. But he has been overrated at this point.

I don't think he deserves to be on this list, he isn't close to the most overrated in the outfield. I just think right now he is overrated.

I just never really saw anyone predicting a .260 average and 40 RBI from the guy. Whether the stats are good in your mind or not....no one thought they would be this low.

 

[broncosmitty]

It's a much more telling and important statistic than batting average, RBI or stolen bases. Actually, it tells me more about a hitter than those three statistics combined.

We don't have to look only at OPS/OPS+. He's also put up a respectable AVG, good OBP, good SLG, good wOBA, good WAR. He rates well in plenty of valuable statistics. His HR rate is impressive, his ISO is impressive. His K% and BB% are great for a young player. He's been a bad basestealer but is an otherwise competent baserunner. The one area where he's shown his age is on defense, where he's made some mistakes typical of a young kid, but he's also only been playing the position for 2 years, so...

I knew the WAR was coming. Ahhhh the land of make believe....

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Justin Upton has a hot start and tailed off in the votes and didn't make it. Harper started for gods sake.

Him and Trout are going to be ALL Star starters basically every year no matter performance it is what it is.

I never said anyone made a shrine for him but the media hype he gets is ridiculous. So far he hasn't backed up the hype. Really isn't his fault since some people are moronic thinking a 20 year old is going to come out and just drop 45 dingers on command. But he has been overrated at this point.

I don't think he deserves to be on this list, he isn't close to the most overrated in the outfield. I just think right now he is overrated.

I just never really saw anyone predicting a .260 average and 40 RBI from the guy. Whether the stats are good in your mind or not....no one thought they would be this low.

Where? Can you cite an example? I just haven't seen it.

He's most definitely backed up the hype in my opinion. Look at the names he rates amongst in baseball history. How is that not backing it up?

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

I knew the WAR was coming. Ahhhh the land of make believe....

So because of that one statistic, the other statistics I mentioned don't matter? So it's just a coincidence that the players at the top of the WAR leaderboard year-in-year-out also happen to be the best players in baseball? Anyone who treats WAR as an end-all statistic is a fool. Anyone who ignores it entirely is an even bigger fool.

 

[ImSmartherThanYou]

Justin Upton has a hot start and tailed off in the votes and didn't make it. Harper started for gods sake.

Well, Upton did a little more than just "tail off". He plummeted. He was basically worthless between the last week of April and the time voting closed. A tremendous slump is going to stick in a voter's mind much more than an injury. As I've said, Harper didn't deserve to make the All-Star team, but only because of missed time. I'd chalk up Harper's making the team more as a product of the average fan's neglecting to notice Harper was missing games rather than overrating him.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

Well, Upton did a little more than just "tail off". He plummeted. He was basically worthless between the last week of April and the time voting closed. A tremendous slump is going to stick in a voter's mind much more than an injury. As I've said, Harper didn't deserve to make the All-Star team, but only because of missed time. I'd chalk up Harper's making the team more as a product of the average fan's neglecting to notice Harper was missing games rather than overrating him.

No he deserved to miss the team because he numbers were not good enough. He had something like 29 RBI. Trust me, I know how overrated RBI can be being a Twins fan and watching Joe Mauer play a 14 inning game and never even hit with a guy on base.

Fact is, Harper's numbers were not all star game worthy. Overrated.

What is with you in want examples of things that are not backed up by stats.

Just watch sportscenter, or mlb now, baseball tonight. Or type Bryce Harper into google and read articles.

Obviously you love the guy. I am indifferent to him. Based on production he is overrated. He has far and away the worst numbers of the young stars right now.

Myers and Puig may be older but Harper already has more experience.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I knew the WAR was coming. Ahhhh the land of make believe....

For as much as you'd want to discredit WAR, do you ever see a bad player/season with a high WAR or vice versa? I'd say the correlation is strong.

On the other hand, a guy like Tony Batista could hit 30+ HR and finish top 10 in RBI with 110 (which he did in 2004), but I don't think anyone's saying he had a very good year (neither does WAR).

 

[broncosmitty]

So because of that one statistic, the other statistics I mentioned don't matter? So it's just a coincidence that the players at the top of the WAR leaderboard year-in-year-out also happen to be the best players in baseball? Anyone who treats WAR as an end-all statistic is a fool. Anyone who ignores it entirely is an even bigger fool.

It's make believe. Cal Ripken had WAR numbers, yet there was no replacement. I'm sure Lou Gehrig somehow has a WAR that's been concocted. Prince Fielder has a WAR number. Why? How? It's make believe, based on conjecture not off reality. So when BH has a solid WAR, I don't so much care. I do care about runs, runs driven in and durability. And BH has disappointed to a degree in all three areas. Along with BA and steals. Someday he might live up to his hype, but right now, he's just another outfielder, hyped for his potential, but nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to production. Making him overrated.

 

[broncosmitty]

For as much as you'd want to discredit WAR, do you ever see a bad player/season with a high WAR or vice versa? I'd say the correlation is strong.

On the other hand, a guy like Tony Batista could hit 30+ HR and finish top 10 in RBI with 110 (which he did in 2004), but I don't think anyone's saying he had a very good year (neither does WAR).

If it weren't for you people that post WAR numbers, I'd never see anyone's. So I can't honestly answer your question. If he's not having a good year, why is he not overrated for the 2013 season? Doesn't make sense to me. Not really sure how it makes sense anyone.