2013 MLB All-Overrated Team

[MiamiVice]

This year, it's not a contest in terms of offensive value between Mauer and Fielder. Mauer is leaps and bounds ahead of him. He's getting on base 40% of the time and even out slugging Fielder. Fielder's in a much stronger lineup, hitting behind a guy who is on base almost as much as he isn't. Of course he's going to have more RBIs. In general, though, their values are about comparable. Fielder's a little down this year, and Mauer's having a strong year even by his standards.

LOL.. seriously.. I bet you thought Trout should have been MVP last year.. even though he was crap the last month and didn't make the playoffs.

 

[StanMarsh51]

I just told you why it is higher compared to when a runner is just on third as apposed to when a runner is on first... scroll up.. my god.. ITS CALLED THE INTENTIONAL WALK. Its done regularly to put a man in place for the double play when a runner is on third.

The intentional walk probably doesn't happen frequently enough to null the difference in OPS...how often does the intentional walk happen in those situations, 4% of the time maybe?

So a sac fly doesn't inflate OPS (because it has no positive effect on OBP and has no effect on SLG), so if you can't show that the frequency of intentional walks is enough to cover a what, 40-50 point gap in OPS, then that kind of discredits your point, does it not?

So please, show your math that the intentional walk is the difference maker here.

 

[Darkstone42]

LOL. this guys is cracking me up.. .264 is above average to you? Really.. i guess nitpicking it may be right around average.. but if you think .264 is above average for a out fielder.. you are crazy... as for striking out not being a facet of the game? Plate discipline isn't a major facet? Really?

Of course plate discipline is part of the game. But Harper doesn't strike out so much that it hurts, and he draws enough walks to cover for it.

Is he out hitting the majority of players that play his position? Including pitchers, catchers, and ss in the mix sure does make him look better huh.

He's sixth among all Major League outfielders this year in wRC+, sixth among Major League outfielders in wOBA, tied for 38th among outfielders in batting average (not near the top, but just outside the upper third, which I think qualifies as above average), tenth in OBP, twelfth in slugging, and seventh in ISO. He's near the top in almost every single rate stat, top ten in all but two. How is that not performing at an elite offensive level at his position?

He's also tied for 18th in home runs and 38th in RBIs (top sixth and just outside the top third, respectively) despite having his season shortened by injuries.

I fail to see how he's failing to live up to the hype of being a top hitter in baseball.

 

[broncosmitty]

The stat guys all think Trout should have been MVP last. Evidently it wasnt WAR that won them over, (i believe i was told that would be foolish, could be wrong on that, i wasnt taking notes)not sure if it was the RBI or home runs that didnt matter. Maybe both, as theyre old statistics Im told. I'm not sure yet what their collective opinion is of Josh Donaldson, and to be honest, I'm actually afraid to ask.

 

[Darkstone42]

LOL.. seriously.. I bet you thought Trout should have been MVP last year.. even though he was crap the last month and didn't make the playoffs.

I said Miggy should have been because the Angels didn't make the playoffs, but while I acknowledge Cabrera as the better hitter, I do think Trout is all around the better player.

 

[StanMarsh51]

LOL.. seriously.. I bet you thought Trout should have been MVP last year.. even though he was crap the last month and didn't make the playoffs.

I could care less who anyone wanted to win MVP, but you're not going seriously say a .289/.400/.500 is crap for Trout's last month, and that was with 18 of his 30 games vs the top 5 pitching staffs in the AL


Is that still crap, a .900 OPS while facing the AL's best staffs for the majority of the final month?

 

[broncosmitty]

.289 down the stretch isn't what MVPs do. Glad you count the Valueable part of MVP Dark. Hard to be most Valueable when your team didn't make the playoffs WITH you in the lineup. (I'm sorry I lumped you in with Arther)

 

[MiamiVice]

The intentional walk probably doesn't happen frequently enough to null the difference in OPS...how often does the intentional walk happen in those situations, 4% of the time maybe?

So a sac fly doesn't inflate OPS (because it has no positive effect on OBP and has no effect on SLG), so if you can't show that the frequency of intentional walks is enough to cover a what, 40-50 point gap in OPS, then that kind of discredits your point, does it not?

So please, show your math that the intentional walk is the difference maker here.

When a runner is on third... And nobody is on first... You think only 4% of the time they walk the guy intentionally to get the dp in play? Seriously? Do you watch baseball? Try 40% and that may be low.

 

[Darkstone42]

.289 down the stretch isn't what MVPs do. Glad you count the Valueable part of MVP Dark. Hard to be most Valueable when your team didn't make the playoffs WITH you in the lineup. (I'm sorry I lumped you in with Arther)

.289 is pretty darned good. .400 OBP is outstanding. So is .500 slugging. Those numbers are what an MVP does down the stretch.

In a vacuum, Trout deserved the MVP. But because his team wasn't as good, he didn't get it, and I thought that was the correct decision. Now, had Miggy not done what Miggy had done, then I think it was Trout's regardless of what his team did, because Miggy aside, Trout was just that much better than everyone else.

 

[Darkstone42]

When a runner is on third... And nobody is on first... You think only 4% of the time they walk the guy intentionally to get the dp in play? Seriously? Do you watch baseball? Try 40% and that may be low.

It's not 40%. With 2 outs and a middling hitter up, that guy gets pitched to. Early in a game, maybe a team will concede a run. I do think it's higher than 4% though. Maybe 15 or so, but I'd call that the ceiling.

 

[broncosmitty]

He may be 38th in RBI for outfielders (depends on what you count as an outfielder I suppose). But Brett Gardner and Alejandro De Aza both have more, and they're leadoff hitters. As do Torii Hunter (a two hole hitter) and Nick Markakis who evidently are over rated. Yet high quality veteran outfielders. Raul Ibanez even has more and he's ancient. Carlos Quintin even has Bryce topped. And he's not much of anything and has less abs for the Padres.

 

[StanMarsh51]

.289 down the stretch isn't what MVPs do. Glad you count the Valueable part of MVP Dark. Hard to be most Valueable when your team didn't make the playoffs WITH you in the lineup. (I'm sorry I lumped you in with Arther)

Then again, much of it is relative to who you're facing.

Cabrera played in a division with 3 of the 4 worst teams in the AL, would you not agree? The Angels didn't make the playoffs, but they had a better record than the Tigers in a tougher division? Obviously, I'd rather make the playoffs, but all things should be taken into context.


Conversely, the Angels had a relatively tough schedule in September, particularly with the pitching they faced. And even with tougher competition in September, the Angels even finished with a better record for the month than the Tigers (18-9 vs 16-12)...and that's with the Tigers playing 19 of their final 28 vs the Royals, Indians, and Twins.

You can argue all you want that Cabrera deserved it for his performance, but I don't put much stock into the 'playoffs' argument....the Tigers won an inferior division and won 1 less game than the Angels.

 

[broncosmitty]

.289 is pretty darned good. .400 OBP is outstanding. So is .500 slugging. Those numbers are what an MVP does down the stretch.

In a vacuum, Trout deserved the MVP. But because his team wasn't as good, he didn't get it, and I thought that was the correct decision. Now, had Miggy not done what Miggy had done, then I think it was Trout's regardless of what his team did, because Miggy aside, Trout was just that much better than everyone else.

.289 might be pretty darned good. But it's not what MVPs do. But I still appreciate your respect of the V in MVP.

 

[Darkstone42]

He may be 38th in RBI for outfielders (depends on what you count as an outfielder I suppose). But Brett Gardner and Alejandro De Aza both have more, and they're leadoff hitters. As do Torii Hunter (a two hole hitter) and Nick Markakis who evidently are over rated. Yet high quality veteran outfielders. Raul Ibanez even has more and he's ancient. Carlos Quintin even has Bryce topped. And he's not much of anything and has less abs for the Padres.

Allen Craig was included in the list of outfielders I use, and he plays first base just as often. It included anyone with any time in the outfield, but compiled all of theirs stats for the season. That means, among true, full-time outfielders, Harper ranked even higher in a couple categories than the numbers I gave, but ranked lower in none of them. And most of the players you've listed have a lot more at bats than Harper (not all, but most), and Harper's RBI rate is likely on par or better than most of the players in front of him on that list.

 

[dougplayer]

Trout.. last 10 games. 1 HR and 3 extra base hits..
not very MVPish... looks like another late season dive for him

 

[StanMarsh51]

When a runner is on third... And nobody is on first... You think only 4% of the time they walk the guy intentionally to get the dp in play? Seriously? Do you watch baseball? Try 40% and that may be low.

When a runner is on 3rd or 2nd and 3rd, an intentional walk in 2013 has happened 393 times in 6,944 total PA's

393 / 6,944 really looks like 40%

And even if you want to argue that there are many 'unintentional intentional walks,' the number is still well short of 40%

 

[MiamiVice]

I love stat guys that dont even understand stats.

 

[Darkstone42]

.289 might be pretty darned good. But it's not what MVPs do. But I still appreciate your respect of the V in MVP.

A number of players have won the MVP with batting averages around or below .300 on the season. I don't think it's fair to cherry pick one month and say that just because a guy's numbers were slightly less good in that month than in other months, stretch run or not, even though they were still among the league's best in each category, and say that's the reason he didn't deserve the MVP.

His team and circumstance cost him the MVP, it was no fault of Trout's.

 

[MiamiVice]

Stan... Check with less than 2 outs.... And stan... Thats more tha 4%

 

[broncosmitty]

Then again, much of it is relative to who you're facing.

Cabrera played in a division with 3 of the 4 worst teams in the AL, would you not agree? The Angels didn't make the playoffs, but they had a better record than the Tigers in a tougher division? Obviously, I'd rather make the playoffs, but all things should be taken into context.


Conversely, the Angels had a relatively tough schedule in September, particularly with the pitching they faced. And even with tougher competition in September, the Angels even finished with a better record for the month than the Tigers (18-9 vs 16-12)...and that's with the Tigers playing 19 of their final 28 vs the Royals, Indians, and Twins.

You can argue all you want that Cabrera deserved it for his performance, but I don't put much stock into the 'playoffs' argument....the Tigers won an inferior division and won 1 less game than the Angels.

Doesn't really matter who you're facing. You could get Sandy Koufax, Walter Johnson, The Big Unit, Roger Clemens and Cy Young himself to finish out the season. If you hit .289 for the last month, miss the playoffs and have a triple crown winner in your league, you aren't winning anything but the ROY. (I think Mike Trout is incredible btw. Best young talent in the game. Second best hitter. But middle of the road in the field. Which is fine, he's not superman). If you don't make the playoffs, where's the value? Putting butts in seats? With you, no playoffs. Without you, still no playoffs. I don't see most Valueable being accurate if that's the case.