2 Reasons the Niners lost this game

[Mozart'sGhost]

150 yards passing is not all that decent in my book. Passing yards mean a lot IMO.

He wasn't terrible, he didn't lose the game but he will never win a game putting up 150 yards passing.

They did last week.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

Frankly, I think the OL is far more responsible for our struggles. They showed in the preseason that they can't handle the blitz, and that has held up in the regular season. Sure, there are five guys on the OL, but four of them were around last year. Those guys were all very high picks, and they need to win their one-on-one matchups from time to time.

As you say, they aren't even opening holes in the running game, which looked to be a strength for Davis, Rachal, and Iupati.

Simply ignoring that our two best WRs were sidelined is silly. Clyde and others constantly complaining about Morgan and Ginn even getting playing time. But suddenly Smith needs to hit them in the quarter second he has between planting on his back foot and getting hit by a DL? That's BS. When players go down, other players need to step up. Not just players at that position, but players at other positions who need to play better to take the pressure off. The OL needs to hold their blocks a half second longer so our backup WRs can get open. Smith needs to throw into tighter windows (which, again, he did several times yesterday). The RB needs to his the hole harder or get open immediately when matched up against an OLB.

I agree. The line's inability to run block makes it more difficult for Smith in passing situations. Their inability to pick up a blitz or provide the necessary protection for Smith on pass plays makes it more difficult for him again. Simply giving Smith a good running attack would make him a much more effective passer so I think the Line has more blame than Smith does.

 

[sayheykid1]

They did last week.

The Niners won the game
Ted Ginn won the game
Alex Smith was on the winning team

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

The Niners won the game
Ted Ginn won the game
Alex Smith was on the winning team

If Smith takes the blame in the loss, he gets the credit in a win. He didn't turn the ball over and he scored the only offensive TD

 

[sayheykid1]

If Smith takes the blame in the loss, he gets the credit in a win. He didn't turn the ball over and he scored the only offensive TD

I am not putting the loss on him although I think a fair number of QBs lead the Niners to victory yesterday.

The Smith TD in week one didn't mean a whole lot.

Do you understand what I mean by winning a game? Sometimes QBs win games for their teams, sometimes they lose games for their teams and sometimes they manage not to do one or the other.

 

[Mozart'sGhost]

I am not putting the loss on him although I think a fair number of QBs lead the Niners to victory yesterday.

The Smith TD in week one didn't mean a whole lot.

Do you understand what I mean by winning a game? Sometimes QBs win games for their teams, sometimes they lose games for their teams and sometimes they manage not to do one or the other.

Yep, I think your point was that a team is not going to win consistently throwing for 150 yards. I was just nit-picking. For the record though, I don't think Smith either won or lost the game against Dallas. He was decent. I would be hard-pressed though to think of a Niner, outside Rogers maybe, who had a better day than Smith did against Dallas.

 

[ViperVisor]

Any Lee is the boy with the golden toe.

 

[zman1527]

It IS all Alex Smith's fault donchya know. Really it is. Frank Gore had a stellar day. Vernon Davis was just ripping them up. Willis, man all the sacks and forced fumbles and the ints. And then they DBs: wow, if only the Cowboys were not so tricky they could have stayed within 10 yards of their guys on those big plays. And the OL, just dominating right?

If Alex Smith threw for 800 yards and 12 TDs and the Niners still lost the game, many here would blame Alex. Its all they know: Niners lose, blame Alex.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

150 yards passing is not all that decent in my book. Passing yards mean a lot IMO.

He wasn't terrible, he didn't lose the game but he will never win a game putting up 150 yards passing.

I wouldn't say never, but certainly not against an offense as potent as the Cowboys when our ground game isn't producing. But Smith was getting pounded when he dropped back. He didn't have time to produce more. While that is sometimes on him for not recognizing the pressure, more often it was on his blocking or the playcalling. If we want Smith to produce more, we need to pass more and block better.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Man those videos make me sick. Staley is just terrible. Our blitz protection, terrible. Trying to be cute play calls didn't help either.

I've got to say, I don't know what Sick was looking at. Staley was absolutely destroyed by an inside swim move and an outside speed rush by Ware (he only got the sack on one of them). I can't say how he held up on other plays, but he was just used on both of those.

 

[Crimsoncrew]

It just struck me that what we're seeing this year is very similar to what we saw last year: unimaginative offense, struggling run game, bad pass protection. The key difference is that Smith is not making the crushing mistakes. Now, granted he had the one INT this week, but one turnover in two weeks isn't bad.

Last season, people were blaming Smith and rightly so. This year, it's not so clear he's the cause of the problems.

 

[sayheykid1]

It just struck me that what we're seeing this year is very similar to what we saw last year: unimaginative offense, struggling run game, bad pass protection. The key difference is that Smith is not making the crushing mistakes. Now, granted he had the one INT this week, but one turnover in two weeks isn't bad.

Last season, people were blaming Smith and rightly so. This year, it's not so clear he's the cause of the problems.

I would add the pump fake sack as a pretty big error as well but I agree for the most part that Smith is not losing games so far this year.

 

[wartyOne]

I wanted to revisit this afresh. Literally the only offensive play I saw in the second half was the TD to Walker, so I can't really speak for what transpired and what Smith did or did not do. I also missed the last few minutes of the second quarter. However, perhaps as a result, I have an unbiased view of what Smith did early in the game. In the first 25 minutes, I saw Smith play very well, maybe as well as he ever has. His pass to Williams was perfect, he threw a great pass to Ginn on 3rd and 10 with pressure in his face to keep our first scoring drive alive. I didn't have a great view of his incompletion to Walker that killed the first drive, but that one looked like it should have been caught to extend the drive. I also saw Smith take two or three sacks that were ENTIRELY on his blockers.

As said, I don't know what happened just before and after the half, but Smith WAS the offense prior to that point. Given the rushing numbers, I don't see that anything changed after half. Ultimately, it was the sacks that crushed the Niners. Were those sacks in the second half on Smith? Cause in the first half they definitely were not.

Better question. Would a good quarterback take all of those sacks? The answer is no. Is Smith the only reason why the 9ers are disgraceful? No. But he absolutely is ONE of the reasons why they are. QB's in today's game are throwing between three and four hundred yards a game, and winning because of it. Smith has one three hundred yard passing game in his career.

Seriously, the Smith project is a failure and needs to end. This team is mired in mid 70's offensive philosophy while the rest of the league is throwing the ball all over the field. Look at the SB contenders. They throw the ball at will. They get after the QB. They actually defend the pass at the second level. We do none of those things. Not well. We do none of those things at all. It's no surprise why we haven't sniffed the playoffs in a decade.

:clock: <--What the fuck is this?

 

[Crimsoncrew]

Better question. Would a good quarterback take all of those sacks? The answer is no. Is Smith the only reason why the 9ers are disgraceful? No. But he absolutely is ONE of the reasons why they are. QB's in today's game are throwing between three and four hundred yards a game, and winning because of it. Smith has one three hundred yard passing game in his career.

Seriously, the Smith project is a failure and needs to end. This team is mired in mid 70's offensive philosophy while the rest of the league is throwing the ball all over the field. Look at the SB contenders. They throw the ball at will. They get after the QB. They actually defend the pass at the second level. We do none of those things. Not well. We do none of those things at all. It's no surprise why we haven't sniffed the playoffs in a decade.

:clock: <--What the fuck is this?

Would a good QB have taken all those sacks this week? Absolutely yes. If the Cowboys brought the pressure they did, virtually any QB in the league would have been sacked on all five of the plays I posted. Now, if the Niners had a better QB, the Cowboys may not have brought so much pressure. But given the state of their secondary, I think they would have regardless of who was at QB.

I agree that Smith is not a long-term answer. But at present he is not the biggest problem. Not particularly close IMO.

 

[Flyingiguana]

2nd string WRs, a 2nd rate OL and 2 and change yards per rush on the ground?

Romo was missing Dez, and that's a bigger loss than any WR on the Niners. Also his OL is worse than the Niners' OL and he had a broken rib; but he out-shined Alex. He was the anti-Romo today & won the game when it came dow to the wire.

The sinlge biggest problem the 49ers have is that they can't pass the ball. That's why they can't run the ball; it's not the other way around.

It's also why the defense got so tired in the 4th quarter.

9/10 romo chokes. every dog has his day

 

[Flyingiguana]

I think Jimmy Raye is still relaying plays to Alex Smith

if he was, he'd still be looking for the play for the first snap

 

[ViperVisor]

Better question. Would a good quarterback take all of those sacks? The answer is no.

Probably only 5/6 of the sacks.

Look at the NFL highlights. On the good plays the QBs are protected and when the WRs/TEs execute a little better at least than the defense great things happen.

The Rodgers bomb down the middle yesterday to Jennings. They playaction and he drops back 10 yards and has all kinds of time and then makes a great throw under no pressure.

Tom Brady camps out 5 yards behind the center and then can step into his throws.

If things were 100% the same with those successful teams and swap in Alex Smith I would guess he would still be only about 80 some % as productive.

The great QBs would only be a little better here. QB has the most power in sports but it is dependent on the other 10 guys.
If they can just execute and set things up the QB needs to come through with hits or homeruns. And Homeruns isn't even fair unless you are talking about a running QB who can do something on the ground on his own.

So how often the past 7 years have we had runners on base just begging to be driven in? Rarely.

 

[wartyOne]

of course we could've won with a better QB, are you saying Alex Smith isn't a decent QB?

EVERYONE and his grandma knows what we got in Alex Smith, are we now expecting miracles? he's a temporary QB but who didn't know that one either?

i DO feel he'll improve as the season goes on, cause everyone else will too. but lets be realistic about how much and how fast?

Yes. I'm flat out saying he's a terrible QB. I don't feel he'll improve. We've been watching this nonsense for years, and there hasn't been a demonstrable improvement anywhere in his game, either statistically or in the win column.

Wow, he FINALLY recorded a 90 QBR when guys are lighting up scoreboards. If Cam Newton has two more games like the first two, he'll have more than doubled Smith's season total in four games. It's not even embarrassing anymore. We've actually found rock bottom beneath embarrassing with Smith as our QB.

This isn't even about him. The pass rush is a disaster and has been for a decade. The coverage of the secondary is a disaster and has been for a decade. The play calling is stale and unimaginative, and has been since Young was under center. And here's the important part. Smith touches the ball on every offensive play. If we have subpar QB performance in the face of all those other facts (and subpar is being generous), we have NO chance of competing for the worst division in football. Sure we're tied for first now. When we finish 4-12 because the defense can't get off the field, the Oline can't block, the receivers can't get open or catch, the RB's cant find a hole with a map, and the QB couldn't compete in the SEC, where does that ultimately leave us?

Have I been harsh on Smith in this thread? Absolutely. It's because he plays the position that has the single biggest impact on the game. That's why he's made 8 figures playing for this team. If he can't step up and start winning despite the adversity, then it's time to move on (well, it was three years ago, but whatever).

 

[wartyOne]

Would a good QB have taken all those sacks this week? Absolutely yes. If the Cowboys brought the pressure they did, virtually any QB in the league would have been sacked on all five of the plays I posted. Now, if the Niners had a better QB, the Cowboys may not have brought so much pressure. But given the state of their secondary, I think they would have regardless of who was at QB.

I agree that Smith is not a long-term answer. But at present he is not the biggest problem. Not particularly close IMO.

This whole team is the biggest problem. No direction from the FO (been this way for a decade), no originality or gamesmanship from the coaching staff (been this way for a decade), no execution from the players (been this way for a decade), no realistic expectations from the fans (been this way for a decade). Smith shouldn't be given credit as a positive by any stretch of the imagination. Long term. Short term. Whatever. If the game is on the line, I'd rather punt and trust Andy Lee, than watch Smith lose 18 yards, and have Lee punt anyway.

And you're right. Smith isn't the only or biggest problem. He is the biggest and easiest target, though.

 

[wartyOne]

Probably only 5/6 of the sacks.

Look at the NFL highlights. On the good plays the QBs are protected and when the WRs/TEs execute a little better at least than the defense great things happen.

The Rodgers bomb down the middle yesterday to Jennings. They playaction and he drops back 10 yards and has all kinds of time and then makes a great throw under no pressure.

Tom Brady camps out 5 yards behind the center and then can step into his throws.

If things were 100% the same with those successful teams and swap in Alex Smith I would guess he would still be only about 80 some % as productive.

The great QBs would only be a little better here. QB has the most power in sports but it is dependent on the other 10 guys.
If they can just execute and set things up the QB needs to come through with hits or homeruns. And Homeruns isn't even fair unless you are talking about a running QB who can do something on the ground on his own.

So how often the past 7 years have we had runners on base just begging to be driven in? Rarely.

There is such a thing as QB's sidestepping the rush and getting rid of the ball, right? I mean, I'm not imagining guys like Brady and Brees and Rogers avoiding pressure am I? Oline's get beat on those squads, but I don't recall the Patriots, Saints and Packers CONSTANTLY facing 2nd and 3rd and forever the way we do with Smith leading the game.

Here's the deal. If our Oline doesn't ABSOLUTELY stonewall another defense (won't happen at this level), then Smith is worse than a liability. He will take the worst possible option at every juncture. That's not on the Oline every time. Smith has to take some of the heat here. Was he the worst player on the field for us? No. But he wasn't even in the top 10 of the best either. And our team is bad enough that we need our QB to be one of the best players if we're going to compete.