Series Thread: 2) Cleveland Cavaliers vs 7) Indiana Pacers

[Black Adam]

Jordan's ring count mighta been different if he had to face a 'superteam' like maybe Stockton, Malone, AND Barkley and Payton a few times...

maybe, maybe not. point is you, me, or anyone else is never gonna know. we only know what we've seen when he played...

 

[Black Adam]

SMD

IRON GRIP on last year lmfao...

 

[WiggyRuss]

Cleveland Cavaliers' LeBron James-led second unit forces opponent to 'pick your poison'

nice article explaining just how hard it is to guard the Cavs when LeBron has those shooters around him:



In General Manager David Griffin's vision, James, the maestro, surrounded by four other shooters is the ultimate headache, which is why the core trio to start the second and fourth quarter has become James, Korver and Frye.

Size. Length. Athleticism. Versatility. Spacing. Playmaking. Shooting. It's simply too much for the opposing defense.

"It's been like that for a good stretch of the season," Lue said. "He's in the second lineup and we have all shooting on the floor so the floor is spaced and that way LeBron can get downhill and get to the basket. If guys help you're giving shots to Kyle Korver, Channing and R.J. He knows with that second unit he has to be aggressive getting to the basket, scoring the basketball and also making the right play."

In the first quarter of this series, James is averaging 5.0 points. That number increases to 9.7 in the second quarter when he runs the offense surrounded by shooters.

Welcome to Indiana's nightmare.

Stay connected to perimeter threats and risk giving up a free path to the basket as the defender has to hold his own one-on-one against the game's most unstoppable force?

Or load up to slow down James, give help, show him an extra body, try to recover in time and risk giving up an open look to one of the many 3-point assassins?


damned if you do and damned if you dont basically.

 

[msgkings322]

maybe, maybe not. point is you, me, or anyone else is never gonna know. we only know what we've seen when he played...

But that's what makes this year's storyline so friggin great! What if you could go back in time to 1992 and take on MJ in is prime...but with a god damn army you assembled with 4 of the top 15 and 2 of the top 5 players at that time, all playing as a well oiled team full of dudes that genuinely like the team. You wouldn't pay $1,000 to see that shit?

SO frankly I don't get all the bitching about "oh so boring we all knew this matchup was coming..." Well fuck yeah, this is high level NBA entertainment. You're living a part of the story that 20 years from now people will be talking about, like we still do about MJ.

I'm just saying, no matter how it goes down, Warriors Cavs III is easily the most entertaining thing available in the sport.

 

[msgkings322]

"well oiled team full of dudes"

OK, I don't need to live in San Francisco to realize that sounds a little ghey.

 

[Heatles84]

maybe, maybe not. point is you, me, or anyone else is never gonna know. we only know what we've seen when he played...

Why is Jordan the GOAT for me?

Because in the 90's I always knew who was going to win the title. Everyone knew - it would be the Bulls because of Jordan. I guess you could say the same about the early 2000 Lakers, but there road block was the Spurs. Once you knew who'd win out of the Lakers and Spurs, you knew that team was going to win in the Finals, until 2004 came around.

Since then, I've never approached a season where I said for sure a team was going to win a title. Even with my Heat during the Lebron years. We always had some questions about who'd be a challenge in the East whether it be Boston, Chicago, and to some degree Indiana. Then there was the Spurs to consider, who in the latter years was the only team Heat fans were concerned with out West, and for good reason.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Cleveland Cavaliers' LeBron James-led second unit forces opponent to 'pick your poison'

nice article explaining just how hard it is to guard the Cavs when LeBron has those shooters around him:



In General Manager David Griffin's vision, James, the maestro, surrounded by four other shooters is the ultimate headache, which is why the core trio to start the second and fourth quarter has become James, Korver and Frye.

Size. Length. Athleticism. Versatility. Spacing. Playmaking. Shooting. It's simply too much for the opposing defense.

"It's been like that for a good stretch of the season," Lue said. "He's in the second lineup and we have all shooting on the floor so the floor is spaced and that way LeBron can get downhill and get to the basket. If guys help you're giving shots to Kyle Korver, Channing and R.J. He knows with that second unit he has to be aggressive getting to the basket, scoring the basketball and also making the right play."

In the first quarter of this series, James is averaging 5.0 points. That number increases to 9.7 in the second quarter when he runs the offense surrounded by shooters.

Welcome to Indiana's nightmare.

Stay connected to perimeter threats and risk giving up a free path to the basket as the defender has to hold his own one-on-one against the game's most unstoppable force?

Or load up to slow down James, give help, show him an extra body, try to recover in time and risk giving up an open look to one of the many 3-point assassins?


damned if you do and damned if you dont basically.

Like that strategy is something new or unique?
They were still down 25.
James still has to play nearly every minute of every game.
The other players still have to make the shots.
It required taking Kyrie, Love and Tristan off the court.

I heard the Cavs had played that 4th qtr lineup a total of 9 minutes all season.

Nothing really changed.

James played a flawless half.
Frye/Korver made some nice shots.
Pacers still suck.

Ill ask again.
Their second and third best players are whom?
Coming off the bench they bring what?
Who defends LeBron?

In future rounds the answer to those questions will actually make a difference.

 

[lebron23james]

Like that strategy is something new or unique?
They were still down 25.
James still has to play nearly every minute of every game.
The other players still have to make the shots.
It required taking Kyrie, Love and Tristan off the court.

I heard the Cavs had played that 4th qtr lineup a total of 9 minutes all season.

Nothing really changed.

James played a flawless half.
Frye/Korver made some nice shots.
Pacers still suck.

Ill ask again.
Their second and third best players are whom?
Coming off the bench they bring what?
Who defends LeBron?

In future rounds the answer to those questions will actually make a difference.

They didn't last year, and that was Irvings and loves first finals experience. Now they have finals experience going into this year.

 

[lebron23james]

maybe, maybe not. point is you, me, or anyone else is never gonna know. we only know what we've seen when he played...

We do know that none of the teams jorDONE faced won 73 games or ranked as good offensively and defensively as this years GS team...In fact none of the bulls teams led by JorDONE even ranked as high in any category as this years GS team....Either way GS goes down as the best team ever, or lebron goes down as beating the best ranked team ever in the nba...We will witness history.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

They didn't last year, and that was Irvings and loves first finals experience. Now they have finals experience going into this year.

They didn't what?
Also, @WiggyRuss post was about the usage of bench players on the court with James.
It had nothing to do with Kyrie and Love.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

We do know that none of the teams jorDONE faced won 73 games or ranked as good offensively and defensively as this years GS team...In fact none of the bulls teams led by JorDONE even ranked as high in any category as this years GS team....Either way GS goes down as the best team ever, or lebron goes down as beating the best ranked team ever in the nba...We will witness history.

None of you younger posters consider that when Jordan played, the league was very different.
You were actually allowed to bang bodies without a foul being called every 5 seconds.
If Jordan played today he'd probably shoot 10-15 FTs a game.

 

[trojanfan12]

Again, do you really think these two teams are like last year? Just stop it, we both know the deal.

Yes, he really does. After writing multiple 15,000 word novella's telling everyone how the past doesn't matter. Suddenly, it's all that matters. That's not hypocrisy in WiggyWorld though.

 

[trojanfan12]

@trojanfan12 is there a way to ban Wiggy if he doesn't show up when the Cavs lose?

Meh, he'll show up, talking about how lucky the Warriors were that the Cavs couldn't push it to 7 games.

 

[trojanfan12]

Cavs have two top 20 players. You blow Kyrie up quite often - but the kid's pretty damn good, I'll give you that one.

And no one's really ever questioned how good Lebron is, at least I haven't. He's already on my top 4 all-time list, and if he wins another title/Finals MVP combo he's right there coming for Magic at the number 2 slot passing Kareem.

The GOAT slot has slid for him by my opinion. But number 2 is certainly within reach.

 

[trojanfan12]

Jordan's ring count mighta been different if he had to face a 'superteam' like maybe Stockton, Malone, AND Barkley and Payton a few times...

Mighta been different if he'd have jumped ship and gone to the Lakers or Celtics too.

 

[trojanfan12]

None of you younger posters consider that when Jordan played, the league was very different.
You were actually allowed to bang bodies without a foul being called every 5 seconds.
If Jordan played today he'd probably shoot 10-15 FTs a game.

No doubt. The way the game was called back then, MJ averaged 7.7 free throws per game. With the way he used to attack the paint (especially in his younger days), he might have averaged more than 15 per game.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Meh, he'll show up, talking about how lucky the Warriors were that the Cavs couldn't push it to 7 games.

True.
He's already been setting the table by refusing to ever mention beating the West.
He also was cool with the Tribe blowing a 3-1 lead to the Cubs.
I think its backwards, he should be banned if the Cavs WIN and he shows up talking shit since he's proven time after time that he agrees they won't.

 

[trojanfan12]

But that's what makes this year's storyline so friggin great! What if you could go back in time to 1992 and take on MJ in is prime...but with a god damn army you assembled with 4 of the top 15 and 2 of the top 5 players at that time, all playing as a well oiled team full of dudes that genuinely like the team. You wouldn't pay $1,000 to see that shit?

SO frankly I don't get all the bitching about "oh so boring we all knew this matchup was coming..." Well fuck yeah, this is high level NBA entertainment. You're living a part of the story that 20 years from now people will be talking about, like we still do about MJ.

I'm just saying, no matter how it goes down, Warriors Cavs III is easily the most entertaining thing available in the sport.

Agree. I want to see the best teams in the league meet for the finals every year. Unfortunately, the Warriors and Spurs play in the same conference, so we likely get the next best thing...Warriors vs. Cavs.

Seriously though, I don't care how many times in a row 2 teams meet in the finals. If those are the best teams, that's the matchup I want to see. It's up to the rest of the league to get better and break that shit up.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Cavs have two top 20 players. You blow Kyrie up quite often - but the kid's pretty damn good, I'll give you that one.

And no one's really ever questioned how good Lebron is, at least I haven't. He's already on my top 4 all-time list, and if he wins another title/Finals MVP combo he's right there coming for Magic at the number 2 slot passing Kareem.

The GOAT slot has slid for him by my opinion. But number 2 is certainly within reach.

IMO the constant flopping has to be held against James also.
I know that many other players flop, but it doesn't matter.
They aren't in the conversation for best ever.
James is a physical freak of nature.
Between what God gave him and his work ethic, he shouldn't be begging for more help from the refs.

 

[trojanfan12]

None of you younger posters consider that when Jordan played, the league was very different.
You were actually allowed to bang bodies without a foul being called every 5 seconds.
If Jordan played today he'd probably shoot 10-15 FTs a game.

Also, something I find pretty funny is that players back then used to complain about all of the "superstar calls" that MJ would get. I was actually surprised when I looked it up and saw he only averaged 7.7 free throws per game.

The players from back then must look at how the game is called now and just cringe. lol