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Series Thread: 1st Round: 4) Cavs vs 5) Knicks

dtgold88

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That's what happens when you have very inconsistent role players. Easy to criticize Bickerstaff but look at this cast of clowns.

Osman - extremely inconsistent. Could score 2 one game then 30 one game. Not great at creating his own shot. Pesky but average defender.
Stevens - low % shooter. Gritty defender. Cannot create his own shot.
KLove - he wasn't shooting well, often injured, bad defender.
Wade - hurt, declined as a shooter even with consistent playing time. Good defender. Cannot create his own shot.
Rubio - didn't look himself after recovering from injury. below average defender, bad shooter and was as good at creating his own shot than in the past.
Robin Lopez - unplayable
Neto - gritty defender, decent shooter, cannot create his own shot. Size issues (no pun intended)
Okoro (starter) - inconsistent shoote and hesitant with his shot even when open. Cannot create his own shot but their best wing defender.
Levert (starter and bench player) - throughout the season the most consistent defender. Improved his 3 ball but his ability off the dribble and mid-range declining dramatically. In the playoffs, he was a below average defender which was weird. Offensively still inconsistent but solid enough.

Look at that shitshow.
Agree with nearly all of this if not all of it. The idea we are getting ripped for Love, while somewhat warranted, is overblown. First, who knows if he plays well for us....hard to imagine Love alone is a 2 win swing in a series. And the guy couldn't shoot or play D so was deservedly benched. Would have been nice if he just wanted to stay with this group and if he got back in, great. But he wanted to play and the Cavs did him a solid.

as to the rest? I'd say the Cavs bench is like many (including many of the playoff teams). One guy we could count on (the 6th man, Levert...unless starting) and the rest are guys who would play based on matchup, game flow/situation and how they were playing. No one deserved regular minutes.

I disagree some on Okoro, as he became an above average shooter once 2023 began hitting 40%+ of his shots. He can also create his own shot by going to the hoop which I thought he did more of later in season (even in playoffs in the little time he received after game 2).

We need a shooter and a big man. A stud SF/wing would be great but might not be necessary.
 

trojanfan12

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also think Mobley, with the way he can move, is better as a PF.

Seems like they should try Allen at 5 and Mobley at 4. When the Lakers had Bynum and Gasol, they were really difficult to deal with until Bynum's knees fell off.

With Mobley's skill set, it might work.
 

DJ

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They have 1 PG. Mitchell is a SG. also think Mobley, with the way he can move, is better as a PF. IF they can get a stud wing/SF for Allen? sure. Have at it. But they do not need to overreact. I mean, if we had Hart and Hartenstein on our bench instead of NY we likely win in 4 or 5...and guys like that are attainable.

As to the didn't make a single adjustment that's simply factually incorrect. By your own comments it is factually incorrect. First, made a huge adjustment by taking Okoro out of the starting lineup and replacing with Levert. Could argue he should have gone back but it is, in fact, an adjustment. Made an adjustment by having Rubio as part of the regular rotation down to little or even no time on the court (my vote was the latter). You even said guys went from 20-30 minutes to no time which would be an adjustment.
Allen and few draft picks for OG?
 

DJ

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Not sure I'd do it straight up.
They are not going to just give away players to the Cavs.

You really have not been paying attention to what players get traded for......LOL.
 

dtgold88

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Nailed it.

1 through 3 the Cavs got crushed
I did think Garland played well other than 1 terrible game, for sure as far as shooting/scoring. But all the guards on O, D, rebounding, etc? That's true.

Their guards/wings, especially, get after it on the boards. Ours get back on D after shots went up for us.
 

Stakesarehigh

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I did think Garland played well other than 1 terrible game, for sure as far as shooting/scoring. But all the guards on O, D, rebounding, etc? That's true.

Their guards/wings, especially, get after it on the boards. Ours get back on D after shots went up for us.

Yes was referring to rebounds
 

dtgold88

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They are not going to just give away players to the Cavs.

You really have not been paying attention to what players get traded for......LOL.
I always try to tell you ending with an "LOL", "period", GIF/Meme, etc wont make your baseless comments less baseless. I have been paying attention, but it seems you think OG is on the level of KD, Mitchell, etc?

Allen isn't some throw in to make a deal work. He's really close to a double double guy nearly every year. 11+ ppg each of last 5 seasons and 9.6-10.8 rpg. Many of his advanced stats are off the charts, especially his O and D ratings per 100 possessions, and an all star only a season ago. He's a great to elite defender.

Giving up Allen for OG straight up might not make us any better. would they consider it? Maybe, but it's far from a no-brainer, especially if the cavs are the team adding picks (not that they even have any to add).
 

Stakesarehigh

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I always try to tell you ending with an "LOL", "period", GIF/Meme, etc wont make your baseless comments less baseless. I have been paying attention, but it seems you think OG is on the level of KD, Mitchell, etc?

Allen isn't some throw in to make a deal work. He's really close to a double double guy nearly every year. 11+ ppg each of last 5 seasons and 9.6-10.8 rpg. Many of his advanced stats are off the charts, especially his O and D ratings per 100 possessions, and an all star only a season ago. He's a great to elite defender.

Giving up Allen for OG straight up might not make us any better. would they consider it? Maybe, but it's far from a no-brainer, especially if the cavs are the team adding picks (not that they even have any to add).

Man

Gotta disagree.

Think adding OG in that vein would be a huge help.

Play Mobley 36 a game and go find a backup C that isn't Robin Lopez
 

dtgold88

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Man

Gotta disagree.

Think adding OG in that vein would be a huge help.

Play Mobley 36 a game and go find a backup C that isn't Robin Lopez
ADDING OG? absolutely. Might make us a legit contender in the East. To replace Allen? Not so sure. I'm guessing with his current build they prefer Mobley at PF. Maybe even if/when he gets stronger because of the way he can move.

I think with a little more improvement from the really young guys (Mobley, Garland and even Okoro) I'd rather just see us add a couple guys like Korver and Frye (when they were at their best here). Not sure who that is.
 

Stakesarehigh

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ADDING OG? absolutely. Might make us a legit contender in the East. To replace Allen? Not so sure. I'm guessing with his current build they prefer Mobley at PF. Maybe even if/when he gets stronger because of the way he can move.

I think with a little more improvement from the really young guys (Mobley, Garland and even Okoro) I'd rather just see us add a couple guys like Korver and Frye (when they were at their best here). Not sure who that is.

Well ya lol. Just SU adding OG would be nuts

I don't like having two bigs like that in most of the lineups in today's NBA. And when you add a hesitant shooting Okoro it makes the defenses job too easy.
 

dtgold88

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Well ya lol. Just SU adding OG would be nuts

I don't like having two bigs like that in most of the lineups in today's NBA. And when you add a hesitant shooting Okoro it makes the defenses job too easy.
Having watched pretty much every game I didn't notice the hesitant shooting Okoro many are saying. Especially not the last few months. Now is he the longterm answer at the 3? I'd like to see someone better, but wouldn't rule it out he could grow into the role (still 22). If he could just take more 3s and remain in the 36% range that would be good enough.
 

dtgold88

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Well ya lol. Just SU adding OG would be nuts

I don't like having two bigs like that in most of the lineups in today's NBA. And when you add a hesitant shooting Okoro it makes the defenses job too easy.
would add his idea of needing to give up Allen AND a bunch of picks is kooky talk. OG is not Durant, Mitchell, etc. AND Allen is better than most of the players who got moved in these deal.....well, except when he was moved to us as a throw in before he became an all star or borderline.
 

fightinfunbags

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would add his idea of needing to give up Allen AND a bunch of picks is kooky talk. OG is not Durant, Mitchell, etc. AND Allen is better than most of the players who got moved in these deal.....well, except when he was moved to us as a throw in before he became an all star or borderline.
Think you’re over playing this hand. OG has more value in the league than Allen does.
 

dtgold88

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Think you’re over playing this hand. OG has more value in the league than Allen does.
More value? I agree with that for most teams (though a team with a legit 3 and a PF who can shoot might prefer Allen). But he told me I have not been paying attention to the NBA/trades which he thought proved we'd have to trade Allen and a bunch of picks for OG. OG is not Durant, Harden, Mitchell, etc.......and Allen is not some throw in to make salary work.
 

fightinfunbags

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More value? I agree with that for most teams (though a team with a legit 3 and a PF who can shoot might prefer Allen). But he told me I have not been paying attention to the NBA/trades which he thought proved we'd have to trade Allen and a bunch of picks for OG. OG is not Durant, Harden, Mitchell, etc.......and Allen is not some throw in to make salary work.
I don’t think he’s wrong.
 

dtgold88

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I don’t think he’s wrong.
That's fine if your opinion but Jarrett Allen AND a bunch of picks seems like a lot to give up for OG. A couple picks (maybe even 3) and filler? Maybe.

Not that the Cavs have 1st rounders to deal for a while.
 

fightinfunbags

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That's fine if your opinion but Jarrett Allen AND a bunch of picks seems like a lot to give up for OG. A couple picks (maybe even 3) and filler? Maybe.

Not that the Cavs have 1st rounders to deal for a while.
It’s about the market that will me there for him. Someone will offer 4 picks. Allen is what mitigates less picks from Cavs. 2 1sts, Allen and salary filler is about right.
 
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