Series Thread: 1) Toronto Raptors vs 4) Cleveland Cavs

[WiggyRuss]

So an entire season in which Thompson was banished to the back of the bench and the fact that he basically didn't play until Game 7 is irrelevant because he had a decent game yesterday? You think that maybe Turner and Sabonis and Bogdonavich all being in foul trouble may have been a factor in his play?

You think Thompson averages more than 10 MPG against the Raptors?

what you dont think Thompson will play 10MPG against the Raptors?

 

[gordontrue]

So an entire season in which Thompson was banished to the back of the bench and the fact that he basically didn't play until Game 7 is irrelevant because he had a decent game yesterday? You think that maybe Turner and Sabonis and Bogdonavich all being in foul trouble may have been a factor in his play?

You think Thompson averages more than 10 MPG against the Raptors?

I agree with you that one game doesn't make up for his season. His season still is what it is, which is bad.

But he (and Lue) deserve credit for yesterday's game though. TT played great, and no, I don't think it was because of Pacers foul trouble, especially since most of his great play came right out of the gate.

 

[flyerhawk]

The Pacers were #12 on offense in the regular season.... so you can't just make that conclusion without at least considering the alternative that the Cavs playoff defense might be better than their regular season version.

Certainly the Cavs are likely better than their #29 ranked defense. But let's not pretend that they, all of the sudden, turned into a shutdown defense overnight. They were able to shut down Oladipo dramatically.

But single star teams like the Pacers and the Bucks ALWAYS struggle in the post-season because they need some other player to really step up because one star can always be limited, at least if their name is not Lebron James.

 

[flyerhawk]

I agree with you that one game doesn't make up for his season. His season still is what it is, which is bad.

But he (and Lue) deserve credit for yesterday's game though. TT played great, and no, I don't think it was because of Pacers foul trouble, especially since most of his great play came right out of the gate.

Maybe TT has rediscovered himself and will become a dominant center going forward. Seems unlikely but anything is possible.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Certainly the Cavs are likely better than their #29 ranked defense. But let's not pretend that they, all of the sudden, turned into a shutdown defense overnight. They were able to shut down Oladipo dramatically.

But single star teams like the Pacers and the Bucks ALWAYS struggle in the post-season because they need some other player to really step up because one star can always be limited, at least if their name is not Lebron James.

do you think thats a fair ranking of the Cavs defense- the 29th overall?

If the Cavs had the roster they currently have- and some time to gel- do you think it would be in that area? Or do you think that IT, the injuries, turning over half the team, LeBron not playing much defense during the regular season, etc. had SOMETHING to do with that regular season ranking?

Somethign tells me between the roster turnover, and LEBron trying- that the Cavs are a MUCH better defensive unit then the one that was during the regular season.

That said- I think Toronto, while not nearly as good defensively as Indiana, is a much better offensive team- and that while the Cavs/Pacers games were played in the 90's or 100's....most of these games should and will be played in the 110's or 120's.

 

[gordontrue]

Certainly the Cavs are likely better than their #29 ranked defense. But let's not pretend that they, all of the sudden, turned into a shutdown defense overnight. They were able to shut down Oladipo dramatically.

But single star teams like the Pacers and the Bucks ALWAYS struggle in the post-season because they need some other player to really step up because one star can always be limited, at least if their name is not Lebron James.

That's fair. Certainly both are at play, the Cavs defense ramping up for the playoffs, and the Pacers one-star offense stalling in the playoffs. Its hard to know the extent either way.

I think the Raptors are going to shed some light on that question, and I admit I'm pretty concerned about that.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Maybe TT has rediscovered himself and will become a dominant center going forward. Seems unlikely but anything is possible.

i dont think he will be dominant- but he certainly can be the guy that averaged a double double during two straight NBA Finals, that terrorized the offensive glass, and did a great job switching in the pick and roll.

HE just needs tod o what he did yesterday- ACTUALLY put in effort and play with energy instead of playing like a lazy, disinterested schlub like he did most of this season.

 

[flyerhawk]

what you dont think Thompson will play 10MPG against the Raptors?

Nope.

 

[gordontrue]

Maybe TT has rediscovered himself and will become a dominant center going forward. Seems unlikely but anything is possible.

I'm not even thinking that far ahead. Just think TT deserves some credit for this 1 game.

He hasn't proved anything yet, though, going forward.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's fair. Certainly both are at play, the Cavs defense ramping up for the playoffs, and the Pacers one-star offense stalling in the playoffs. Its hard to know the extent either way.

I think the Raptors are going to shed some light on that question, and I admit I'm pretty concerned about that.

Obviously I am worried about Lowry and DeRozan- but i think the one thing that scares me most about the Raptors is their frontcourt size/depth. They have 4 legit bigs in Valuciinas, Poeltl, Siakem, Ibaka. The Cavs absolutely cannot get beat badly on the glass. They dont have to win the rebounding battle- but they do have to keep it close. If Love, Nance Jr., TT, Green can keep the rebounding battle close, the Cavs will be in good shape. If the Raptors dominate the boards the Cavs will be in trouble.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Maybe TT has rediscovered himself and will become a dominant center going forward. Seems unlikely but anything is possible.

I think you are missing the point. Very rarely will TT score like he did but he will always put the effort into perimeter defense, screens, offensive rebounding, etc. Those are killers, Draymond-like. He just hasn’t played much recently and one game doesn’t do the trick but TT is the type of player all he needs is motivation if he is healthy bc his game is focused off of his energy and hustle.

 

[flyerhawk]

That's fair. Certainly both are at play, the Cavs defense ramping up for the playoffs, and the Pacers one-star offense stalling in the playoffs. Its hard to know the extent either way.

I think the Raptors are going to shed some light on that question, and I admit I'm pretty concerned about that.

I am really interested to see how this series goes. The Raptors SHOULD win this series but, IMO, their big problem is that their stars just can't hang with Lebron and he bullies the Rapts because of it.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Obviously I am worried about Lowry and DeRozan- but i think the one thing that scares me most about the Raptors is their frontcourt size/depth. They have 4 legit bigs in Valuciinas, Poeltl, Siakem, Ibaka. The Cavs absolutely cannot get beat badly on the glass. They dont have to win the rebounding battle- but they do have to keep it close. If Love, Nance Jr., TT, Green can keep the rebounding battle close, the Cavs will be in good shape. If the Raptors dominate the boards the Cavs will be in trouble.

Nance needs to step up, he didn’t have a good series but that kinda goes with everyone. Hood, Clarkson, Nance, Green (not defensively) all didn’t play well. Hell, even JR didn’t play wel offensively.

 

[SJ76]

Raptors in 6

Cavs struggled in first series

 

[flyerhawk]

I think you are missing the point. Very rarely will TT score like he did but he will always put the effort into perimeter defense, screens, offensive rebounding, etc. Those are killers, Draymond-like. He just hasn’t played much recently and one game doesn’t do the trick but TT is the type of player all he needs is motivation if he is healthy bc his game is focused off of his energy and hustle.

Wiggy is saying that TT's biggest problem is lack of effort. You are saying that TT's best trait is the effort he puts into the game.

Which is it?

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm not even thinking that far ahead. Just think TT deserves some credit for this 1 game.

He hasn't proved anything yet, though, going forward.

He had a strong game. No question about that. Whether that is a sign of things to come or a dead cat bounce remains to be seen.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Wiggy is saying that TT's biggest problem is lack of effort. You are saying that TT's best trait is the effort he puts into the game.

Which is it?

its exactly what i said- over most of the year TT looked disinterested, lazy, kind of out of shape, and like he was more focused on being a reality TV star than a basketball player.

Yesterday he looked like the guy who would play a 1,000 miles per hour and do whatever it takes to win.

if he is playing like the lazy, disinterested, complacent, bum with a lack of focus that he played with during the regular season at times- hes unplayable

if he is playing like the guy who looks like he is going after offensive rebounds as if his life depended on it, who is throwing bone crushing screens and rolling to the basket and finishing with purpose- he becomes a guy that can without a doubt help you win a series.

 

[Shanemansj13]

BPI gives Toronto an 88% of winning the series

 

[Shanemansj13]

Wiggy is saying that TT's biggest problem is lack of effort. You are saying that TT's best trait is the effort he puts into the game.

Which is it?

Well both have the same idea.

I said, “his game is focused off of his energy and hustle”. So yeah if he wasn’t putting in the effort he isn’t the same player, if he does he is a huge piece bc of that hustle. I think injuries and his role with the team had a lot to do with that motivation. It’s the playoffs now, the effort should he their like we saw last game.

 

[raptorlife4]

the Pacers single teamed LeBron practically the whole series and stayed home on the other shooters--- of course they had guys like Oladipo and Stephenson, very solid, very physical defenders.

I expect that Toronto will be forced to double team him much more than the Pacers. As a Cavs fan I hope this results in more 3's for the Cavs. I think its pretty much the Cavs best chance at pulling the series out.

A 20 year old guarding LeBron James, even one as athletically gifted as OG, is usually not a good recipe for success.

do you think thats a fair ranking of the Cavs defense- the 29th overall?

If the Cavs had the roster they currently have- and some time to gel- do you think it would be in that area? Or do you think that IT, the injuries, turning over half the team, LeBron not playing much defense during the regular season, etc. had SOMETHING to do with that regular season ranking?

Somethign tells me between the roster turnover, and LEBron trying- that the Cavs are a MUCH better defensive unit then the one that was during the regular season.

That said- I think Toronto, while not nearly as good defensively as Indiana, is a much better offensive team- and that while the Cavs/Pacers games were played in the 90's or 100's....most of these games should and will be played in the 110's or 120's.

You say that the Raptors are not nearly as good on defense yet the raptors were ranked better then them