Series Thread: 1) Golden State Warriors vs. 8) Los Angeles Clippers

[WiggyRuss]

Jimmy could be considered the 2nd option where he is, with the ball in simmons hands a lot. Guessing Philly knew this when they dealt for him. And you are only guessing they don't want to keep him.

Jimmy was the Bulls' first option and if not for Lebron possible he leads them to the Finals. Think Klay could lead any team to a series win as their #1?

and the Bulls didnt want him

 

[dtgold88]

and the Bulls didnt want him

or they knew he wouldn't stay.

Been much better without him, haven't they?

 

[bksballer89]

thats what Klay is gonna get and he is DEF. not a top 10 player.

Kemba is gonna get that and he is DEF. not a top 10 player

John Wall got something similar and I dont think he is a top 10 player

Kyrie will DEF. get the offer as well

I don't think Kemba or Klay is a lock to get that....and if either player get that then IMO they didn't deserve it.

I wouldn't give anyone that deal if you're not a top 10 player/superstar

Kyrie probably even though I wouldn't give him it either.

If you can't be the top dog on a team and lead us to playoffs and win a series or so then I can't offer you that.

I love Kemba's game but I can't offer him that. Same for Klay

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't think Kemba or Klay is a lock to get that....and if either player get that then IMO they didn't deserve it.

I wouldn't give anyone that deal if you're not a top 10 player/last superstar

Kyrie probably even though I wouldn't give him it either.

If you can't be the top dog on a team and lead us to playoffs and win a series or so then I can't offer you that.

I love Kemba's game but I can't offer him that. Same for Klay

my point is 27M a year is not even a reale offer since it was clear he was never going to accept an offer of 27M a year when Kyle Lowry is making 33M per year and Mike Conley is making a boatload more and Chris Paul is making 40M a year etc.

its a non-offer offer that was not even remotely a credible offer in Butler's eyes as he is convniced the LEAST he is getting is 4/140 (and sadly enoguh he is prob. right----- the Butler and LeBron show falling short of expectations coming to you Soon!)

 

[Shanemansj13]

Oh my. First I will answer your question. Better rebounder, passer/playmaker and not like he's a bad shooter as well as being a stud defender.

Now I'd ask what does Klay do better other than jumpshooting? And how about Klay gets to take his shots as the 3rd option and not the first option like Butler has often been.

But their output is the same. Their per 36 are identical points wise, Klay actually little better. That's the thing, all down the board they are pretty similiar. So there isn't a lot more I like about Jimmy's game and not a lot more I like about Klay's game except his shooting. That's why I have them as pretty much equals. The whole point why I would take Klay over Jimmy but it's close and it comes down to his ego, locker room, team fit, etc. in the end.

 

[dtgold88]

To be fair, we know, or at least think we know, how far Butler can carry a team because he's had the chance.

Klay never has had that chance. I honestly don't see him being able to carry a team as far as Butler. But I can't say I know because he's never had to.

I think Klay is among the best "Robins" of all time, if not the best and don't think he'd be nearly as good in the "Batman" role. But unless and until he gets a chance, I'm not going to say he absolutely can't.

was kind of my answer...not so sure, but opinion is he could not carry a team. Not even sure I'd call Klay a Robin. I'd say Green was the Robin in 15 and 16 (but it's close) and now it's Curry or Durant.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I don't think Kemba or Klay is a lock to get that....and if either player get that then IMO they didn't deserve it.

I wouldn't give anyone that deal if you're not a top 10 player/superstar

Kyrie probably even though I wouldn't give him it either.

If you can't be the top dog on a team and lead us to playoffs and win a series or so then I can't offer you that.

I love Kemba's game but I can't offer him that. Same for Klay

You could say a lot of players not deserving of max and not top 10 players. Jimmy, Kemba, Klay and even Kyrie with his injury concerned will all be overpaid. But if Kyrie is healthy is the one most deserving imo.

 

[dtgold88]

my point is 27M a year is not even a reale offer since it was clear he was never going to accept an offer of 27M a year when Kyle Lowry is making 33M per year and Mike Conley is making a boatload more and Chris Paul is making 40M a year etc.

its a non-offer offer that was not even remotely a credible offer in Butler's eyes as he is convniced the LEAST he is getting is 4/140 (and sadly enoguh he is prob. right----- the Butler and LeBron show falling short of expectations coming to you Soon!)

OK, but it's all they COULD offer. so the idea they didn't want him is absurd. You don't allow he made it clear he wouldn't stay so they moved on?

 

[Shanemansj13]

was kind of my answer...not so sure, but opinion is he could not carry a team. Not even sure I'd call Klay a Robin. I'd say Green was the Robin in 15 and 16 (but it's close) and now it's Curry or Durant.

3rd option now. 2nd option before KD. He averaged 22 and shot 43% from 3. Draymond will NEVER be a 2nd option. He is a good all-around player and great defender. You can't be a 2nd option when nobody guards you on offense.

 

[dtgold88]

But their output is the same. Their per 36 are identical points wise, Klay actually little better. That's the thing, all down the board they are pretty similiar. So there isn't a lot more I like about Jimmy's game and not a lot more I like about Klay's game except his shooting. That's why I have them as pretty much equals. The whole point why I would take Klay over Jimmy but it's close and it comes down to his ego, locker room, team fit, etc. in the end.

I think it comes more to fit than ego. Klay does strike me as a bit of a punk for his antics in the 2016 Finals.

what did Butler do that was so terrible in Minny? Wanted the better players to play harder and care more?

 

[trojanfan12]

my point is 27M a year is not even a reale offer since it was clear he was never going to accept an offer of 27M a year when Kyle Lowry is making 33M per year and Mike Conley is making a boatload more and Chris Paul is making 40M a year etc.

its a non-offer offer that was not even remotely a credible offer in Butler's eyes as he is convniced the LEAST he is getting is 4/140 (and sadly enoguh he is prob. right----- the Butler and LeBron show falling short of expectations coming to you Soon!)

I think you both may be right on this.

You may very well be right that Minny wasn't giving Butler the 5yr/188 that he would be eligible for. We don't truly know because they were capped and couldn't offer him that much.

I think bks is right in that they offered him every penny they could, so it doesn't look like they were trying to low ball him to let him know they didn't want him.

If I remember the circumstances correctly, it seemed at the time that Butler was upset that Minny chose to take care of other players first and that Butler didn't feel they played as hard or cared as much as he did.

Then again, may be the order that they chose to take care of players in was their way of telling him they didn't want him?

 

[dtgold88]

3rd option now. 2nd option before KD. He averaged 22 and shot 43% from 3. Draymond will NEVER be a 2nd option. He is a good all-around player and great defender. You can't be a 2nd option when nobody guards you on offense.

True, but a Robin does not = the #2 on offense only. Agree Klay was the second option on offense.

 

[dtgold88]

I don't think Kemba or Klay is a lock to get that....and if either player get that then IMO they didn't deserve it.

I wouldn't give anyone that deal if you're not a top 10 player/superstar

Kyrie probably even though I wouldn't give him it either.

If you can't be the top dog on a team and lead us to playoffs and win a series or so then I can't offer you that.

I love Kemba's game but I can't offer him that. Same for Klay

I wouldn't want to but someone will so it's likely pay a guy that much or lose him. Easier said than done to just let him walk.

 

[trojanfan12]

was kind of my answer...not so sure, but opinion is he could not carry a team. Not even sure I'd call Klay a Robin. I'd say Green was the Robin in 15 and 16 (but it's close) and now it's Curry or Durant.

Considering how sensitive he is, wouldn't KD be more in the "Batgirl" role?

 

[trojanfan12]

I wouldn't want to but someone will so it's likely pay a guy that much or lose him. Easier said than done to just let him walk.

From what I've heard and read, this is going to be an FA period where a lot of teams are going to have a lot of cap space...so some guys are definitely going to be overpaid.

Unless something drastically changes between now and FA, I'm pretty sure the Lakers are going to be overpaying someone.

 

[Shanemansj13]

True, but a Robin does not = the #2 on offense only. Agree Klay was the second option on offense.

Klay guarded Kyrie. Draymond guarded TT or Love (when he played lol) and was a rim protector. Both great defenders but Draymond is a do-it-all type of player. Someone you like as a 3rd or 4th or even 5th option. Never a Robin.

 

[dtgold88]

From what I've heard and read, this is going to be an FA period where a lot of teams are going to have a lot of cap space...so some guys are definitely going to be overpaid.

Unless something drastically changes between now and FA, I'm pretty sure the Lakers are going to be overpaying someone.

Other than baseball recently (other than superstars) just how it is in FA......many guys get far more than they are worth.

Not saying this to rip LA, but just happens to be the truth. Best examples I can think of to the contrary are a few guys they once had.....Lou williams, Randle and Bryant.

 

[Shanemansj13]

I think it comes more to fit than ego. Klay does strike me as a bit of a punk for his antics in the 2016 Finals.

what did Butler do that was so terrible in Minny? Wanted the better players to play harder and care more?

A punk is still different imo than a guy that more of a locker room issue or a "me" guy. If you are on a bad team and need a guy desperately to try and lift you to the playoffs, Jimmy can be your guy. If you are trying to compete for a championship and you need a 2nd option, Klay is the guy. But either way I think they are similar and both are not top 10 players, maybe not top 15 imo

 

[WiggyRuss]

I think you both may be right on this.

You may very well be right that Minny wasn't giving Butler the 5yr/188 that he would be eligible for. We don't truly know because they were capped and couldn't offer him that much.

I think bks is right in that they offered him every penny they could, so it doesn't look like they were trying to low ball him to let him know they didn't want him.

If I remember the circumstances correctly, it seemed at the time that Butler was upset that Minny chose to take care of other players first and that Butler didn't feel they played as hard or cared as much as he did.

Then again, may be the order that they chose to take care of players in was their way of telling him they didn't want him?

well first of all- it does not matter if they are "capped" because since they traded for him and had his Bird Rights they could pay him as much as they wanted

 

[dtgold88]

Klay guarded Kyrie. Draymond guarded TT or Love (when he played lol) and was a rim protector. Both great defenders but Draymond is a do-it-all type of player. Someone you like as a 3rd or 4th or even 5th option. Never a Robin.

Maybe overall, but Green was far more important in those series. Pretty sure he was MVP if they won Game 7.