Series Thread: Conference Finals Thread: Jets vs. Golden Knights

forty_three said:

I think if this was Seattle or Quebec being this successful out of the gate I'd probably be on board. The team, the players, the coaches. All fine. From a hockey standpoint it's pretty amazing. But it's not just about the hockey. In fact, it seems like it's actually very little about the hockey most times.

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So you just dont like Vegas, the city?

Comeds said:

lol, not even close because...well...um...er

Hey, did anyone see that woman take a dump in Tim Hortons?

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Langley, right?

Do people think it lessens the image of the League when a band of ragamuffins and castoffs (and Neal) are thrown together and they can beat established hockey dynasties with loyal deserving fanbases?

I think that is fair, but still think it comes back to jealousy. And this is coming from a life long Leafs fan, a team that has had a 51 year head start on the posers from Sin City.

BGDave said:

So you just dont like Vegas, the city?

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Lol.

The "dumb reasons" are literally the only reasons to not like Vegas. "Hockey in hot = bad", "Vegas is a gimmick town". Cool.

The fact of the matter is, the team is extremely well coached. The product on the ice is exciting as fuck. Ownership is putting on "shows" every night in the arena and doing a fuckton of outreach outside of it (I'm guessing naysayers can point at what they did for the Humboldt kids last game as "jumping the shark" or "overcompensating" or something). They are literally doing EVERYTHING right...including firing that assclown who was trying TOO hard to run their social media earlier in the year...

BGDave said:

So you just dont like Vegas, the city?

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I just don't like the overdone cheap theatrics, and I don't think Seattle or Quebec would be so over the top. Plus, I would imagine that the coverage of a team elsewhere would seem less like a travel advert and be more about, I don't know, the hockey.

BGDave said:

Do people think it lessens the image of the League when a band of ragamuffins and castoffs (and Neal) are thrown together and they can beat established hockey dynasties with loyal deserving fanbases?

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Actually, I think that aspect of it strengthens what's great about hockey. As has been touched on in the other thread, you can't just throw an all star team out there and expect to win like basketball. But I don't think that is what is being discussed. That's not how it's all being presented. I hear more about Jeremy Roenick dressed as Elvis, or a Golden Knights Lamborghini, or Blue Man Group than I do about what Gerard Gallant has done to get buy in. What Bill Karlsson is doing differently now. How Deryck Engellend suddenly looks like an NHL Player.

And yeah, there is jealousy. And I think rightfully so. Every other expansion team ever has gotten even worse scraps and ragamuffins. Bettman wanted to make a splash and he set the rules in order to make that more likely. Picking up the 11th bets player from every team gets you much better odds than picking up the 15th best. And that sucks for the game as a whole.

BGDave said:

Do people think it lessens the image of the League when a band of ragamuffins and castoffs (and Neal) are thrown together and they can beat established hockey dynasties with loyal deserving fanbases?

I think that is fair, but still think it comes back to jealousy. And this is coming from a life long Leafs fan, a team that has had a 51 year head start on the posers from Sin City.

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Meanwhile, in the NBA it's the same teams every year in the conference finals led by 1 or 2 players and people eat that shit up with a spoon with a multi-billion dollar TV deal on top. Vegas is a great story, it's a shame they aren't getting even more play than they are currently.

BGDave said:

Do people think it lessens the image of the League when a band of ragamuffins and castoffs (and Neal) are thrown together and they can beat established hockey dynasties with loyal deserving fanbases?

I think that is fair, but still think it comes back to jealousy. And this is coming from a life long Leafs fan, a team that has had a 51 year head start on the posers from Sin City.

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I know it's slightly different, but the Colorado Avalanche won the Cup in their first season in Denver. Of course, the main culprit in this case was Mario Tremblay.

forty_three said:

I just don't like the overdone cheap theatrics, and I don't think Seattle or Quebec would be so over the top. Plus, I would imagine that the coverage of a team elsewhere would seem less like a travel advert and be more about, I don't know, the hockey.

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- "I don't like overdone cheap theatrics"
- Favorite team fires a cannon after every goal.

forty_three said:

And yeah, there is jealousy. And I think rightfully so. Every other expansion team ever has gotten even worse scraps and ragamuffins. Bettman wanted to make a splash and he set the rules in order to make that more likely. Picking up the 11th bets player from every team gets you much better odds than picking up the 15th best. And that sucks for the game as a whole.

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And they were "gifted" the sixth pick in the Entry draft, worst of any expansion team. Giving them no "superstar" caliber of player to build around, after giving them a gaggle of 7th forwards and 5th defensemen. With their success, will again not get a solid young player in the draft this year either.

forty_three said:

I just don't like the overdone cheap theatrics, and I don't think Seattle or Quebec would be so over the top. Plus, I would imagine that the coverage of a team elsewhere would seem less like a travel advert and be more about, I don't know, the hockey.

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So you are just a grumpy old man?

I get you. Some of my fondest hockey memories are watching the Oshawa Generals (Lindros to Savard years) with my son and booing the zamboni driver for missing a sliver of ice. Hard core hockey fans. And the first time I saw an intermission promotion where they took 3 schlubs from the audience and put them in big soft sumo outfits and waddled them on the ice (Atlanta) I was appalled. But I guess I have gotten so old I am a kid again, and I like the Vegas theatrics. I LOVED the shot of Wayne Newton cruising down the Strip with the Cup in the passenger seat of his convertible.

Duke of Douchington said:

And they were "gifted" the sixth pick in the Entry draft, worst of any expansion team. Giving them no "superstar" caliber of player to build around, after giving them a gaggle of 7th forwards and 5th defensemen. With their success, will again not get a solid young player in the draft this year either.

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And they traded away their first rounder for this year's draft.

Regardless of how it ends for them, I was going to save this for after the season, but I do not expect Vegas to make the playoffs next year. I feel like they have caught lightning in a bottle this year.

BGDave said:

And they traded away their first rounder for this year's draft.

Regardless of how it ends for them, I was going to save this for after the season, but I do not expect Vegas to make the playoffs next year. I feel like they have caught lightning in a bottle this year.

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I'm up in the air about that. They have a butt ton of cap space for next year, with no big time RFAs to spend on, outside of Wild Bill. Hopefully they can spend it and stay strong.


...but yea, that Tatar trade was pretty Eratish.

Duke of Douchington said:

- "I don't like overdone cheap theatrics"
- Favorite team fires a cannon after every goal.

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I just knew you were going to say that .

I would kill for the coverage that Vegas is getting though. Most we get is "hey, they exist"

BGDave said:

So you are just a grumpy old man?

I get you. Some of my fondest hockey memories are watching the Oshawa Generals (Lindros to Savard years) with my son and booing the zamboni driver for missing a sliver of ice. Hard core hockey fans. And the first time I saw an intermission promotion where they took 3 schlubs from the audience and put them in big soft sumo outfits and waddled them on the ice (Atlanta) I was appalled. But I guess I have gotten so old I am a kid again, and I like the Vegas theatrics. I LOVED the shot of Wayne Newton cruising down the Strip with the Cup in the passenger seat of his convertible.

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Grumpy? You have no idea.

Most of the extraneous stuff I tolerate, and my favorite thing about the Cannon is how much it annoys everyone else. So in that respect, I guess Vegas loves how much the skating kuh-niggit annoys me.

I remember when they started doing the "shoot through the board to win 500 bucks!" at the AHL games and I thought "Fuck you if you need that to come to a hockey game". Now, as I said, I tolerate it. Because those fans bring money and that money that Vegas is bringing the Jackets closer to being able to afford both Panairn and Werenski. So it isn't all bad.

It's just my opinion, I think it's a great (on ice) story, and that story isn't getting told, instead we hear about so much else. Like it annoys me that Nashville's coverage is sure to include who sings the anthem. I don't really care.

Add in the attitude of "What? like winning the cup is hard?" surrounding the whole thing and I get crotchety. It's just the way I feel. Winning the cup is supposed to be the hardest test in sports and to the outside world it looks like "hey, just show up and you can".

BGDave said:

So you are just a grumpy old man?

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He needs to stick to his own turf

forty_three said:

Every other expansion team ever has gotten even worse scraps and ragamuffins.

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The NHL gave the expansion teams of the 90s, almost all of which were placed in weird cities hockey-wise, the greatest gift of all for small, untested markets - the salary cap.

In comparison, stacking the deck slightly more in favour in Vegas (the biggest reason they're doing well is still stupid GM's, not the expansion draft) is a rather light favour. When considering that the expansion fee for them was 5x what it was for any team in the 90's, I don't see any issue with what Bettman & the league did for them because it still pales in comparison with what Bettman & the league did for the struggling teams in 2005.

forty_three said:

My issue when it was first announced was that I didn't want the game of hockey to become a sideshow for a bunch of drunk tourists and gamblers. I didn't want the game to be used as a way to sell buffet cards. Plus, there's the whole spectre of a professional sports team in Vegas opening the league up to scrutiny about the integrity of competition in the den of gambling. It's why no other league would go there, but Bettman is a complete whore.

Then the rules were much more favorable than any other expansion ever and now here we are. The improbable story. The great gambling windfall. Hard to make an argument against it being staged. Or at least heavily stacked.

Plus, the owners, the twitter guy, even their library is pretty douchey about it. Telling Winnipeg to learn about hockey? C'mon. That's like telling Philly how to throw batteries at Santa.



Yeah? Well it's better than not making the playoffs in a year when an expansion team wins the cup!

*sniff*



I think if this was Seattle or Quebec being this successful out of the gate I'd probably be on board. The team, the players, the coaches. All fine. From a hockey standpoint it's pretty amazing. But it's not just about the hockey. In fact, it seems like it's actually very little about the hockey most times.

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Over 2 million people live, as I do. Born & raised in Buffalo and following the Sabres since day 1 and now the Knights, I can tell you it's much more than a sideshow for a bunch of drunk tourists and gamblers. That's what the media is showing and people believe to be Las Vegas.

When was the last time some of you posters were here and actually explored areas off the strip? Most people (especially those over 21) were born elsewhere - Chicago, Detroit, LA, Buffalo,etc.. and probably are/were fans of that team or some other team. The schools are starting a hockey program, local charities are partnering with the team, viewing parties all over the city, youth programs are starting up, local businesses encouraging employees to wear Knights gear, etc.

I wouldn't call that part of the a sideshow for a bunch of drunk tourists and gamblers. No doubt tourism and gaming drives this area, but the Knight fans are EVERYWHERE! Yes, it's still a novelty and everyone has jumped on the bandwagon, so it maybe over the top a bit. But, it's Vegas what else would you expect?



Now the Raiders moving here, that's a different story...

buffhockey550 said:

ver 2 million people live, as I do. Born & raised in Buffalo and following the Sabres since day 1

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Ever been to Johnny Mac's in Henderson? I love that place.

BGDave said:

Ever been to Johnny Mac's in Henderson? I love that place.

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Johnny is from Buffalo - the pizza and wings are some of the best I've ever had (especially out here). I live a couple miles from there an been there to watch a few Bills & Sabres games.

How did you ever end up way out there, it's so far from the strip?

buffhockey550 said:

Johnny is from Buffalo - the pizza and wings are some of the best I've ever had (especially out here). I live a couple miles from there an been there to watch a few Bills & Sabres games.

How did you ever end up way out there, it's so far from the strip?

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When I went to Vegas, the best thing I did was go to a taco place in a hole in the wall far, far from the strip.

Besides some street tacos I had in Mexico once they were the best I've ever had.

buffhockey550 said:

Johnny is from Buffalo - the pizza and wings are some of the best I've ever had (especially out here). I live a couple miles from there an been there to watch a few Bills & Sabres games.

How did you ever end up way out there, it's so far from the strip?

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Was out at Sams Town and a waitress had the distinctive Buffalo accent (my Mom is from Buffalo). So we got talking and she mentioned Johnny Macs. We go out once every visit, usually on weekends for the Beef on Weck. Agree, the wings are awesome (we prefer Duffs to Anchor Bar), pizza is really good, but my favorite is the Meatball sandwich. Love that place! I usually ask they have Genessee Cream Ale just for their reaction (they don't).