what the broncos showed the skins

[Sharkinva]

Ive been very clear I feel a Franchise QB is important. Ive been very clear that Kirk could end up being that. Ive been very clear that I think the best way (proven through history) of finding a franchise QB is in the first round. And Ive been very clear that its difficult to find one even in the first round.

Not sure what your point is?

Like I said when you throw out statements, like i just dont want us to settle for mediocre when we are talking about resigning Cousins, you are tossing mixed messages. On the one hand you say.. well he MIGHT be a franchise, but I hope we arent settling for mediocre.

As i said, when you throw around words like that, it sounds as if you are expecting him to be just that. When you are saying I just want us to FIND a franchise QB, it does sound as if you feel we in fact havent found one yet and Kirk probably isnt one.

Now I could be reading you wrong, but my point is... you seem to want us to go in a different direction than Cousins. You'll accept it if the team resigns him... but I get the vibe that you would prefer a different direction.

 

[ehb5]

Like I said when you throw out statements, like i just dont want us to settle for mediocre when we are talking about resigning Cousins, you are tossing mixed messages. On the one hand you say.. well he MIGHT be a franchise, but I hope we arent settling for mediocre.

As i said, when you throw around words like that, it sounds as if you are expecting him to be just that. When you are saying I just want us to FIND a franchise QB, it does sound as if you feel we in fact havent found one yet and Kirk probably isnt one.

Now I could be reading you wrong, but my point is... you seem to want us to go in a different direction than Cousins. You'll accept it if the team resigns him... but I get the vibe that you would prefer a different direction.

I want him back. Ive been clear on this too.

That said, Im more worried about this being a bad idea down the road but Ive also stated that I dont think we can risk just letting him walk. I think that some QBs are overpaid and their organizations to committed to them, and I worry we will fall into that. But as I said, its too risky to just let him walk out the door. I think Ive been very clear on this.

As for "FIND" a franchise QB, I say that because I dont believe we can say we have one right now. "Find" includes the possibility of Kirk becoming that guy. Hence why I say - he may yet be our franchise QB. For the MILLIONTH time - there is no secret conspiracy against Kirk.

 

[Sharkinva]

I want him back. Ive been clear on this too.

That said, Im more worried about this being a bad idea down the road but Ive also stated that I dont think we can risk just letting him walk. I think that some QBs are overpaid and their organizations to committed to them, and I worry we will fall into that. But as I said, its too risky to just let him walk out the door. I think Ive been very clear on this.

As for "FIND" a franchise QB, I say that because I dont believe we can say we have one right now. "Find" includes the possibility of Kirk becoming that guy. Hence why I say - he may yet be our franchise QB. For the MILLIONTH time - there is no secret conspiracy against Kirk.

And as i have said, I dont think its secret. I think its more the obvious. You would prefer a Newton, but will accept Cousins because we have no choice. I have explained in detail in a few threads that the idea of being STUCK with a guy really doesnt exist any more. Even the Dolhins arent STUCK with Tannehill. And maybe Im just over the whole franchise QB thing because the majority of the Franchise QB prospects of late remind me of Newton, Manziel and Griffin. Talents when they are winning, and narcissistic assholes when things dont go their way. I would rather lose with a roster full of guys like Morris, Murphy and Kerrigan... than lower myself to cheering for the likes of Newton, Manziel and TO.

 

[skinsdad62]

the last few super bowls have featured perhaps a few "franchise Guys " like brady , brees , and rodgers . but it can also be said that manning (current state ) wilson (at the time he won ) flacco were not

now how does that mean we will "settle " for mediocrity ? KC had 29 td passes and 11 picks , hardly mediocre

now he probably isnt a franchise guy but if KC was on the broncos with that team he would be a winner too

 

[gkekoa]

Facts...

Players taken in the first round have a higher probability of success than players taken in other rounds. And it dominos from there.

In today's game, a franchise QB is the most important thing to have.

You can win without a QB carrying you if you can destroy the other team's QB.

 

[Sharkinva]

Facts...

Players taken in the first round have a higher probability of success than players taken in other rounds. And it dominos from there.

Is this becausae they are simply more talented. Or because teams are willing to give them more chances based on the fact that they were drafted in the first round??

In today's game, a franchise QB is the most important thing to have.

Agreed.... but I also think that we have seen that if a QB is the only thing carrying your team, you are one hit away from being a shitty team.

You can win without a QB carrying you if you can destroy the other team's QB.

And if you have built a solid team, odds are the average QB (to slightly above average) you plug in has a better shot at being seen as a franchise QB. ( Seattle comes to mind)

 

[ehb5]

And as i have said, I dont think its secret. I think its more the obvious. You would prefer a Newton, but will accept Cousins because we have no choice. I have explained in detail in a few threads that the idea of being STUCK with a guy really doesnt exist any more. Even the Dolhins arent STUCK with Tannehill. And maybe Im just over the whole franchise QB thing because the majority of the Franchise QB prospects of late remind me of Newton, Manziel and Griffin. Talents when they are winning, and narcissistic assholes when things dont go their way. I would rather lose with a roster full of guys like Morris, Murphy and Kerrigan... than lower myself to cheering for the likes of Newton, Manziel and TO.

Um hell yes Id prefer a Newton. Im sorry but only an idiot would prefer a Newton to a Kirk. Hes better at literally everything. He's a freaking MVP. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

 

[ehb5]

the last few super bowls have featured perhaps a few "franchise Guys " like brady , brees , and rodgers . but it can also be said that manning (current state ) wilson (at the time he won ) flacco were not

now how does that mean we will "settle " for mediocrity ? KC had 29 td passes and 11 picks , hardly mediocre

now he probably isnt a franchise guy but if KC was on the broncos with that team he would be a winner too

As you said Brady, Rodgers, and Rodgers all were. Wilson also was. Peyton was carried by one of the greatest defenses ever - not exactly something we're likely to replicate.

If the you can win with a mediocre QB crowd has a case its Flacco but that still took him playing out of his mind through the entire playoffs and even then "Is Flacco elite?" has been known to be a hot topic - point being, he's the best argument for mediocre QB's and hes not that good of an argument.

 

[Sharkinva]

Um hell yes Id prefer a Newton. Im sorry but only an idiot would prefer a Newton to a Kirk. Hes better at literally everything. He's a freaking MVP. This shouldn't even be a discussion.

He is also a cancer waiting to destroy your team the minute things dont go his way. Much like T.O., Manziel and Bob. You dont find it strange that the moment they put RG3 in witness protection, the team actually started to bond?? Would I like to have a super talent at the position... of course i would. But I would prefer a guy who falls on the sword for a loss, and gives credit to his team for a win. Rather than this asshole who wants everyone to think he is gods gift to the planet after a win, and sulks like a little bitch after a loss. And Im referring to Newton there, though Bob is of the same cloth.

 

[ehb5]

Is this becausae they are simply more talented. Or because teams are willing to give them more chances based on the fact that they were drafted in the first round??


Both

Agreed.... but I also think that we have seen that if a QB is the only thing carrying your team, you are one hit away from being a shitty team.


Any team can be hit with any number of injuries. All you can do is give yourself a team that can win it all and hope for health and some luck.

And if you have built a solid team, odds are the average QB (to slightly above average) you plug in has a better shot at being seen as a franchise QB. ( Seattle comes to mind)

Ehh not sure if that's true. Good QB play can be separated from the team around the QB.

 

[ehb5]

He is also a cancer waiting to destroy your team the minute things dont go his way. Much like T.O., Manziel and Bob. You dont find it strange that the moment they put RG3 in witness protection, the team actually started to bond?? Would I like to have a super talent at the position... of course i would. But I would prefer a guy who falls on the sword for a loss, and gives credit to his team for a win. Rather than this asshole who wants everyone to think he is gods gift to the planet after a win, and sulks like a little bitch after a loss. And Im referring to Newton there, though Bob is of the same cloth.

Lol. Youve been reading all the hot taeks havent you. I have not a single complaint about Cam Newton as a person. If you do, well thats probably more of a statement on you than it is on him.

 

[Sharkinva]

Lol. Youve been reading all the hot taeks havent you. I have not a single complaint about Cam Newton as a person. If you do, well thats probably more of a statement on you than it is on him.

It might be a statement on me. But then I freely admit that I would prefer a person who is a team player and a leader, than a narcissist. Cam reminds me of the type who takes all the credit for a win, and tosses out all the blame for a loss. And nothing about his reaction last night has changed that impression.

 

[ehb5]

It might be a statement on me. But then I freely admit that I would prefer a person who is a team player and a leader, than a narcissist. Cam reminds me of the type who takes all the credit for a win, and tosses out all the blame foe a loss. And nothing about his reaction last night has changed that impression.

I prefer a leader, a team player, and an MVP. Good thing Cam is all 3.

 

[gkekoa]

WOW. Just WOW. The MVP of the league? The best QB in the league right now? Who's 26? Just took a team with no WRs to the Super Bowl? Might well dominate the league for the next 10 years? That guy? You dont want that guy?

For one I dont care about him being pissed he lost last last night - he should be. He didnt really do anything that bad. And 2 who gives a damn hes amazingly talented.

Cam had a great season and was the MVP...no doubt and well deserved.

He is not the best QB in the league and it isn't close. Put a number of guys behind that defense and they could have won last night.

Cam can be good as long as his legs stay healthy. He can't win without those and when the defense slows down, their team will not be nearly as good because their offense will suffer.

Having WRs is highly overrated. Ask Brady.

He really isn't that talented. He was gifted great size and speed. He is inaccurate and cannot read a defense. If he was normal sized, he wouldn't be a collegiate QB.

 

[gkekoa]

Is this becausae they are simply more talented. Or because teams are willing to give them more chances based on the fact that they were drafted in the first round??




Agreed.... but I also think that we have seen that if a QB is the only thing carrying your team, you are one hit away from being a shitty team.




And if you have built a solid team, odds are the average QB (to slightly above average) you plug in has a better shot at being seen as a franchise QB. ( Seattle comes to mind)

They are more successful because they are typically more talented. That is why they are taken in round one.

No doubt on the last two points. I actually like KCs skill set a lot. I defended him when he was throwing all those INTs. Just because I do not feel he should be paid like a proven veteran, doesn't mean I don't think he is good with a chance at being great. It doesn't even mean I will be mad if he gets 20 mil per season.

 

[Sharkinva]

I prefer a leader, a team player, and an MVP. Good thing Cam is all 3.

A leader, especially at QB doesnt sulk after a loss. Fuck Russell Wilson threw the pick that LOST his team the Super Bowl. And he owned it. He didnt sit there and deflect. A team player again doesnt sit there and deflect and sulk talking that bullshit about well they just made more plays. He OWNs it and says things like, IM not going to blame my team.. I SHOULD have done better.

As for MVP... its a popularity context no more than the Pro Bowl and All Pro to an extent. Its based on individual performance more than any team aspect. Sure without his individual performance, the Panthers likely are not in the Super Bowl. But then again without his two sack fumbles, the Panthers likely win the Super Bowl as well. Man up, quit sulking like a five year old and be a leader when shit DIDNT go your way.

 

[Sharkinva]

They are more successful because they are typically more talented. That is why they are taken in round one.

No doubt on the last two points. I actually like KCs skill set a lot. I defended him when he was throwing all those INTs. Just because I do not feel he should be paid like a proven veteran, doesn't mean I don't think he is good with a chance at being great. It doesn't even mean I will be mad if he gets 20 mil per season.

GK... no offense intended really. But when it comes to paying a player we have drafted, you tend to be a bit on the tight side. I understand WHY. Because you are always worried about the future cap implications. But if Kirk gets a franchise deal, it isnt because he is a proven veteran. Its because we believe he CAN become a better than average QB and its better ti pay him now, than pay him MORE later. Proven veterans tend to get over paid, guys like Kirk get paid because a team believes they CAN become those proven vets. Better to guarantee him $20 million now and $30 million over the next two season. Than to pay him $20 million for one season, and IF he DOES become that proven vet, then end up giving him another $30 million guaranteed and watch the numbers grow from there.

We are basically paying a bit more up front so we dont pay even more a year from now.

 

[skinsdad62]

As you said Brady, Rodgers, and Rodgers all were. Wilson also was. Peyton was carried by one of the greatest defenses ever - not exactly something we're likely to replicate.

If the you can win with a mediocre QB crowd has a case its Flacco but that still took him playing out of his mind through the entire playoffs and even then "Is Flacco elite?" has been known to be a hot topic - point being, he's the best argument for mediocre QB's and hes not that good of an argument.

here we go with the "mediocre qb " BS flacco isnt medicore but he isnt elite . nor was manning , or dilfer or johnson , or any redskins winning qb or even eli big ben as a rookie wasnt elite ,

geez the list of avg to very good qbs who have been to super bowls is fairly long

now i get told you need a great qb to be in super bowls and the last guy to win one (peyton ) wasnt and the numerous others starting with Lomanica , to joe kapp to earl morrall all through the years to boomer , or humphries to craig morton so taken in its entirety history says you can compete for super bowls without an elite qb hosteteler much

 

[ehb5]

Cam had a great season and was the MVP...no doubt and well deserved.

He is not the best QB in the league and it isn't close. Put a number of guys behind that defense and they could have won last night.

Cam can be good as long as his legs stay healthy. He can't win without those and when the defense slows down, their team will not be nearly as good because their offense will suffer.

Having WRs is highly overrated. Ask Brady.

He really isn't that talented. He was gifted great size and speed. He is inaccurate and cannot read a defense. If he was normal sized, he wouldn't be a collegiate QB.

There's a case for him as best QB in the league. He certainly was this season. I'm in the "Rodgers is the best QB regardless" camp but for this season Cam was better. And no QB in the league would've won that game for Carolina last night. Cam was the best chance they had.

Having recievers is very important and brady is a great example of why. For one he has dion lewis, Julian edelman, Amendola, and arguably the biggest recieving threat in the league in gronk. When they started going down, brady started to struggle more.

He is incredibly talented. He has a CANNON that he is very accurate with. And he can absolutely read defenses. That's a very strange thing to say he can't or that he's not accurate.

 

[gkekoa]

There's a case for him as best QB in the league. He certainly was this season. I'm in the "Rodgers is the best QB regardless" camp but for this season Cam was better. And no QB in the league would've won that game for Carolina last night. Cam was the best chance they had.

Having recievers is very important and brady is a great example of why. For one he has dion lewis, Julian edelman, Amendola, and arguably the biggest recieving threat in the league in gronk. When they started going down, brady started to struggle more.

He is incredibly talented. He has a CANNON that he is very accurate with. And he can absolutely read defenses. That's a very strange thing to say he can't or that he's not accurate.

There actually isn't a case for him as the best QB in the league. Biggest weapon perhaps but not the best QB. Cam missed several passes last night that a good QB doesn't miss.

Last season was the first season Edellman became a threat and they won the SB. Is Edellman a threat or does the offense make him a threat. That offense hinges on Gronk.