what the broncos showed the skins

[skinsdad62]

i have heard that great qb play wins championships and to some extent it does but denver showed us that defense does too . add seatle to that as well

getting a dominate defense is something we need to strive towards . we need rushers and we need a secondary together working hand in hand

if the broncos can win with the below avg peyton manning (at this point in his career ) we should be able to compete with a KC if and only if success doesnt go to his head

you can be a run oriented team and win as well . you dont need a bell cow to do it but you need a rushing attack

this is an important draft for us and we need to continue to get players and add depth

 

[gkekoa]

Carolina did the same. Either defense played well enough to win that SB. Hit the QB a lot...

 

[SoCalWizFan]

2011 NFL draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tell you what - it shows that in hindsight the top 15-16 picks from the 2011 draft were some of the best ever!

 

[ehb5]

The problem with that is that defense is all time great. QBs still win championships. Hence why I want a franchise QB - not saying kirk won't be it but we have to be careful not to accept mediocrity.

 

[gkekoa]

The problem with that is that defense is all time great. QBs still win championships. Hence why I want a franchise QB - not saying kirk won't be it but we have to be careful not to accept mediocrity.

Really, you build the best team you can. You put the best coaches, coordinators, and front office in place to get the best players on the field.

QB is the most important position on the team and that is why protecting him and destroying the other team's QB has to be a priority.

 

[Sharkinva]

The problem with that is that defense is all time great. QBs still win championships. Hence why I want a franchise QB - not saying kirk won't be it but we have to be careful not to accept mediocrity.

Over reaching to find the franchise QB has lead many a team into the perpetual recycle bin. More teams have lucked into their franchise QB, than magically picked one out of the draft or off the scrap heap. Shoot for the moon, and if you miss.. your ass is likely lost in space.

 

[ehb5]

Over reaching to find the franchise QB has lead many a team into the perpetual recycle bin. More teams have lucked into their franchise QB, than magically picked one out of the draft or off the scrap heap. Shoot for the moon, and if you miss.. your ass is likely lost in space.

I don't follow. Finding a franchise qb is hard we all know that. But it's also the best way to win a championship. Building a defense this good is probably a lot harder than getting that qb.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't follow. Finding a franchise qb is hard we all know that. But it's also the best way to win a championship. Building a defense this good is probably a lot harder than getting that qb.

Constantly chasing after the franchise QB is a big part of the reason we have not been able to build a defense of the caliber you mentioned. IF every two or three years, you are saying... well we dont have a franchise QB.. so we better draft one in the first round.... you are passing up on the higher caliber defensive players because you didnt want to settle for an average QB and give him a chance to develop. IN the past fifteen years, how many picks have we dedicated to trying to find the franchise QB??

Ramsey 1
Campbell 2
McNabb 2
Griffin/Cousins 5

So ten picks on the QB position, of those 6 were top 100 picks. Imagine what our defense would look like if we had dedicated 4 of those six picks to the D-line or LBS?? Bottom line is, just because you drafted a guy in the 1st round doesnt mean he has any better chance of becoming a franchise QB than the guy drafted in the 4th, 5th or 6th round. Wilson, Oswieler and Flacco have proven, you put a solid team around most of these guys and they can be a franchise QB.

 

[ehb5]

Constantly chasing after the franchise QB is a big part of the reason we have not been able to build a defense of the caliber you mentioned. IF every two or three years, you are saying... well we dont have a franchise QB.. so we better draft one in the first round.... you are passing up on the higher caliber defensive players because you didnt want to settle for an average QB and give him a chance to develop. IN the past fifteen years, how many picks have we dedicated to trying to find the franchise QB??

Ramsey 1
Campbell 2
McNabb 2
Griffin/Cousins 5

So ten picks on the QB position, of those 6 were top 100 picks. Imagine what our defense would look like if we had dedicated 4 of those six picks to the D-line or LBS?? Bottom line is, just because you drafted a guy in the 1st round doesnt mean he has any better chance of becoming a franchise QB than the guy drafted in the 4th, 5th or 6th round. Wilson, Oswieler and Flacco have proven, you put a solid team around most of these guys and they can be a franchise QB.

If we had used those picks as you said we might have a solid to above average defense. Not the Broncos defense.

People drafted in the 1st round are absolutely more likely to be successful than those who are not.

I think you're missing my point. My point is that this broncos team winning the super bowl shouldn't teach us that an ok qb can win a championship. The odds of us getting a defense that good are far less than the odds of getting a QB good enough. QB is still the most important part of the team.

 

[Sharkinva]

If we had used those picks as you said we might have a solid to above average defense. Not the Broncos defense.

People drafted in the 1st round are absolutely more likely to be successful than those who are not.

I think you're missing my point. My point is that this broncos team winning the super bowl shouldn't teach us that an ok qb can win a championship. The odds of us getting a defense that good are far less than the odds of getting a QB good enough. QB is still the most important part of the team.

Of the list I gave you, three of the five QBs were drafted in the first round BY us. By your logic, ONE of them should have become a franchise QB dont you think??

 

[ehb5]

Of the list I gave you, three of the five QBs were drafted in the first round BY us. By your logic, ONE of them should have become a franchise QB dont you think??

Haha what?? Where did I say anything like that???

 

[Sharkinva]

Haha what?? Where did I say anything like that???

Right here.

People drafted in the 1st round are absolutely more likely to be successful than those who are not.

By this logic, atleast ONE of the three first round QBs we have drafted over the past twelve years should have been a franchise QB (for US) right??

 

[ehb5]

Right here.





By this logic, atleast ONE of the three first round QBs we have drafted over the past twelve years should have been a franchise QB (for US) right??

Dude wtf are you talking about? How does that "logic" come out of what I said???

 

[ehb5]

Right here.





By this logic, atleast ONE of the three first round QBs we have drafted over the past twelve years should have been a franchise QB (for US) right??

Dude wtf are you talking about? How does that "logic" come out of what I said???

 

[ehb5]

Right here.





By this logic, atleast ONE of the three first round QBs we have drafted over the past twelve years should have been a franchise QB (for US) right??

Dude wtf are you talking about? How does that "logic" come out of what I said???

 

[Sharkinva]

Dude wtf are you talking about? How does that "logic" come out of what I said???

First rounders are more likely to succeed than guys picked in later rounds (your words). We have spent 3 ( actually 5) first round picks on QB's over the last 12 years. So one of them SHOULD have become a franchise QB for this team. Because unless I am misunderstanding you, your logic is, we have a better chance of finding a franchise QB by drafting one in the first round( or atleast high in the draft). But the last three first round QBs we have drafted ALL failed to become franchise QBs for us.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Dude wtf are you talking about? How does that "logic" come out of what I said???

Please be a little more specific with your pt. If a team makes their overriding priority finding a supposed franchise QB (above all else) this can possibly be a recipe for failure. Think of several of the recent SB champs. Several found their QBs almost as an afterthought & certainly they were not the primary focus of the front office.

Brady has won 4 SBs & he was a 6th round pick. Wilson was taken in the 3rd round. Rodgers was taken late in the 1st & was certainly not viewed as a savior at the time nor was Flacco. Brees was a 2nd rd pick & another team's castoff. If you go back a little earlier there are many other QBs along the same lines.

I don't believe that your theory applies in many cases. A FO needs to build the entire team not just the QB. Even the SB teams that had solid QBs also had a very good supporting cast.

IMO - the key is to do exactly what the Redskins are doing at this time - keep as many picks as possible, make smart picks that don't simply focus on one position, acquire younger, cheaper free agents & make a major effort to develop talent. IMO - this philosophy will work even if Cousins isn't the long term answer. Putting all of your faith in acquiring one hot shot QB is very risky - we should all know this based on recent experience.

 

[ehb5]

First rounders are more likely to succeed than guys picked in later rounds (your words). We have spent 3 ( actually 5) first round picks on QB's over the last 12 years. So one of them SHOULD have become a franchise QB for this team. Because unless I am misunderstanding you, your logic is, we have a better chance of finding a franchise QB by drafting one in the first round( or atleast high in the draft). But the last three first round QBs we have drafted ALL failed to become franchise QBs for us.

WHAT?? where are you getting that one of the 3 would be a franchise qb automatically? I seriously have no idea what your talking about where you got it from or where your going with it.

 

[Sharkinva]

WHAT?? where are you getting that one of the 3 would be a franchise qb automatically? I seriously have no idea what your talking about where you got it from or where your going with it.

So now we playing the whole thats not what I meant card.

So I will ask you straight out.

Do you think Cousins is or stands a good chance of being a Franchise QB??

If not... why.

If he isnt, where exactly do you propose we FIND this franchise QB??

Because if you are pushing the vapor of I hope we dont settle for Mediocre, sound like you are saying mediocre is what you expect from Cousins. Or am I reading you wrong on that one too??

By the way I didnt say one of the three should have automatically been a franchise QB. But if first rounders have a better chance of success, one would tend to think that out of three first round QB's one of them SHOULD have become at least above average if not a franchise QB right?

 

[ehb5]

Please be a little more specific with your pt. If a team makes their overriding priority finding a supposed franchise QB (above all else) this can possibly be a recipe for failure. Think of several of the recent SB champs. Several found their QBs almost as an afterthought & certainly they were not the primary focus of the front office.

Brady has won 4 SBs & he was a 6th round pick. Wilson was taken in the 3rd round. Rodgers was taken late in the 1st & was certainly not viewed as a savior at the time nor was Flacco. Brees was a 2nd rd pick & another team's castoff. If you go back a little earlier there are many other QBs along the same lines.

I don't believe that your theory applies in many cases. A FO needs to build the entire team not just the QB. Even the SB teams that had solid QBs also had a very good supporting cast.

IMO - the key is to do exactly what the Redskins are doing at this time - keep as many picks as possible, make smart picks that don't simply focus on one position, acquire younger, cheaper free agents & make a major effort to develop talent. IMO - this philosophy will work even if Cousins isn't the long term answer. Putting all of your faith in acquiring one hot shot QB is very risky - we should all know this based on recent experience.

If I was unclear I apologize but Id like to point out I didnt say we needed to find ourselves a brand new franchise QB and certainly made no comments on how we should do it. Obviously we should build the team. All I said was they are a lot more important than a lot of people realize I think. Case in point being the first post of this thread - we cant act like all we need now is to get a defense as good as Denvers - thats not realistic.