I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[TurnUpTheHeat]

when did i say he didnt belong in the league? and since when do general managers act rationally? Billy King until recently was a general manager in the national basketball association- and Jimmy Dolan and Jimmy Buss have significant control of basketball operations of their teams- lol--- not exactly the Harvard MBAs that run OKC etc......


but i will GLADLY TAKE THAT BET IN A NEW YORK MINUTE if it was done to adjust the difference in cap from year to year to put it on a level playing field.



shit- i have had to listen to turnup whine about the vote count for 2 days- do you guys not believe in your guy? you think he needs that much help to get more money than Tristan? LOL --- PATHETIC....

Whine about the vote count?
Your % of Tristan votes was just slightly ahead of your championship season %.
And, the people who voted for him, did as a joke or mercy vote for you.

 

[trojanfan12]

Wiggy, your homerism is beyond moronic if you cant see this.

He can't.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

@WiggyRuss
So, which teams should pursue Whiteside next year IYO?

 

[Win TWINS!!!]

@WiggyRuss
So, which teams should pursue Whiteside next year IYO?

Dude would jizz his pants if he somehow found a way to Cleveland....

 

[trojanfan12]

So basically when you said early you werent sure Whiteside belonged anywhere in the NBA, you were just saying shit not even you believed?

Par for the course.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

When this thread was initially made it just didn't strike me as 26 page worthy.

 

[Heatles84]

of course i wouldnt take that bet are you insane? of course a guy is going to get more money when the cap goes up the BIGGEST IT EVER HAS IN NBA HISTORY in one year....are you drunk?
its practically impossible for a free agent not to make INSANE money this offseaso

like i said---- Horford, Conley, Durant, DeRozan, Howard- are ALL going to eclipse the 25M mark in all likelihood- something that i dont believe has happened since Jordan roamed Chicago and made like 34 million a year (unless like i said- kobe did it before he signed this 24 a year deal)

in a year where the cap goes up by the most in history- and guys like DeRozan and Conley are going to be the highest paid players in OVER a decade of NBa play and you dont see how that has a HUGE freaking effect?

GMAFB...i actually thought you might have some brains but apparently not.

So Wiggy says that Whiteside doesn't belong in the NBA, but then says teams are going to offer him more than $16.5 million per season. The juxtaposition of these statements are uncanny.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So Wiggy says that Whiteside doesn't belong in the NBA, but then says teams are going to offer him more than $16.5 million per season. The juxtaposition of these statements are uncanny.

again- when did i say he doesnt belong in the nba? and since when do 30 gms act intelligent?

i just offered a bet that basically amounted to saying whiteside WOULDNT get a max and no one wants a piece of that apparently.

 

[tlance]

The thing about "experts" are, they're right as much as posters on this forum or any forum. I've seen some asinine shit come out of the mouths of some of these "experts" who are paid to do what they do.

Most journalists who cover the NBA know tons of facts and stats about players. They do a good job reporting information to fans, but the average journalist does not understand the game in the same way that someone who played or coached at a high level does.

I coached high school ball for 12 years, and yes, I believe I know more than most "experts" paid to cover the NBA. Writing about the game is not the same as experiencing it first hand.

 

[Heatles84]

again- when did i say he doesnt belong in the nba? and since when do 30 gms act intelligent?

i just offered a bet that basically amounted to saying whiteside WOULDNT get a max and no one wants a piece of that apparently.

But they get paid the big bucks to make these decisions. This is of course the same explanation you use with media "experts" when you try to prove your point.

 

[Heatles84]

Most journalists who cover the NBA know tons of facts and stats about players. They do a good job reporting information to fans, but the average journalist does not understand the game in the same way that someone who played or coached at a high level does.

I coached high school ball for 12 years, and yes, I believe I know more than most "experts" paid to cover the NBA. Writing about the game is not the same as experiencing it first hand.

Ok. Now direct this to Wiggy in a way that he can understand it.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Most journalists who cover the NBA know tons of facts and stats about players. They do a good job reporting information to fans, but the average journalist does not understand the game in the same way that someone who played or coached at a high level does.

I coached high school ball for 12 years, and yes, I believe I know more than most "experts" paid to cover the NBA. Writing about the game is not the same as experiencing it first hand.

very true- a healthy amount of those journalist either played in college- or many played in the NBA even- at least on the national level.....

all though- the genius egg heads that develop the statistical models probably havent played anything lol......its amazing to me the information that is at your finger tips that would have been impossible to accumulate without a whole staff of people 20- even 10 years ago......


i just buy into that stuff. I think that the smartest GMs out there make an allowance for their own human bias and stick to thsoe objective studies.

GREAT example--- the Browns commissioned a 250,000$ study to determine which QB to draft 2 drafts ago in the Manziel, Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater draft.......the study came back and came to the objective conclusion that Bridgewater was the guy to take----- then of course, the owner gets caught up in the hype and dreams of ticket sales and heisman trophies and big wins against Alabama etc--- a bunch of emotional anecdotal evidence that does more to lead you off stray then it does to help you make an informed decision.


Baseball is really advanced into the metrics now....its kind of a pain in the butt to relearn everything and i certainly did not embrace it at first because numbers like babip and era + and WAR, etc- just didnt mean that much to me - i couldnt see a .380 babip and say- wow thats great or wow that sucks---- so i understand the inherent bias people have towards their old ways--- especially arrogant, old, stubborn egotistical asswipes that just say I KNOW WHAT I SAW GRRR!!!.....

but like it or not- its what is at the fore front of both baseball and the nba- and its starting to move into the nfl.

 

[tlance]

very true- a healthy amount of those journalist either played in college- or many played in the NBA even- at least on the national level.....

all though- the genius egg heads that develop the statistical models probably havent played anything lol......its amazing to me the information that is at your finger tips that would have been impossible to accumulate without a whole staff of people 20- even 10 years ago......


i just buy into that stuff. I think that the smartest GMs out there make an allowance for their own human bias and stick to thsoe objective studies.

GREAT example--- the Browns commissioned a 250,000$ study to determine which QB to draft 2 drafts ago in the Manziel, Bortles, Carr, Bridgewater draft.......the study came back and came to the objective conclusion that Bridgewater was the guy to take----- then of course, the owner gets caught up in the hype and dreams of ticket sales and heisman trophies and big wins against Alabama etc--- a bunch of emotional anecdotal evidence that does more to lead you off stray then it does to help you make an informed decision.


Baseball is really advanced into the metrics now....its kind of a pain in the butt to relearn everything and i certainly did not embrace it at first because numbers like babip and era + and WAR, etc- just didnt mean that much to me - i couldnt see a .380 babip and say- wow thats great or wow that sucks---- so i understand the inherent bias people have towards their old ways--- especially arrogant, old, stubborn egotistical asswipes that just say I KNOW WHAT I SAW GRRR!!!.....

but like it or not- its what is at the fore front of both baseball and the nba- and its starting to move into the nfl.

I think some of the eggheads know a lot. Most of the former players are very knowledgable, but there are a few who are idiots.

I am talking more about the writers, not so much the TV guys. Most of the TV guys are pretty good.

 

[tlance]

I do believe wholeheartedly in advanced analytics.

 

[Mebert]

@WiggyRuss

The article about Whiteside being overrated(he is) does not mean anything to this argument. You can be overrated and still be better then Thompson(he is). The gap is so large that if Whiteside was properly rated he is still way better then Thompson.

You have made pages of arguments about why you don't like Whiteside, but nothing about what makes him better. All Thompson has is work Ethic and attitude, two things that don't factor into their talent. The real scary thought is Whiteside IS lazy with a horrible attitude and he is as good as he is. Thompson worked his ass off and peaked a 1 dimensional player. Kudos to him for doing so much with what he had, but there was a reason Rudy did not play until the last game.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

@WiggyRuss

The article about Whiteside being overrated(he is) does not mean anything to this argument. You can be overrated and still be better then Thompson(he is). The gap is so large that if Whiteside was properly rated he is still way better then Thompson.

You have made pages of arguments about why you don't like Whiteside, but nothing about what makes him better. All Thompson has is work Ethic and attitude, two things that don't factor into their talent. The real scary thought is Whiteside IS lazy with a horrible attitude and he is as good as he is. Thompson worked his ass off and peaked a 1 dimensional player. Kudos to him for doing so much with what he had, but there was a reason Rudy did not play until the last game.

Another thought.
Who is doing the ratings which make him overrated?

 

[Mebert]

Another thought.
Who is doing the ratings which make him overrated?

There are some solid analytics behind it, Whitehead is like 45th in allowed fg% on contested shots. That backs up the out of position too often argument. The case that he gives up o rebounds because he seeks the board instead of boxing out his man is solid too.

He is still a borderline all star, you can be good and overrated.

 

[WiggyRuss]

@WiggyRuss

The article about Whiteside being overrated(he is) does not mean anything to this argument. You can be overrated and still be better then Thompson(he is). The gap is so large that if Whiteside was properly rated he is still way better then Thompson.

You have made pages of arguments about why you don't like Whiteside, but nothing about what makes him better. All Thompson has is work Ethic and attitude, two things that don't factor into their talent. The real scary thought is Whiteside IS lazy with a horrible attitude and he is as good as he is. Thompson worked his ass off and peaked a 1 dimensional player. Kudos to him for doing so much with what he had, but there was a reason Rudy did not play until the last game.

I think Thompson is BETTER for all the multitude of reasons i outlined--- one of the biggest reasons why i think he is better THAT I HAVE REPEATED OVER AND OVER- is because Whiteside is nothing special....as i was saying- when the Terror of Tripoli was 24 he playing Moldova for the Lebaneese league title in a gym that would make your high school gym look like a palace....at 24 tristan thompson is putting up a double double in the finals....the stats show the heat play better without whiteside- as does their record- albeit their record is a sample size less than 20 games which is just not a big enough sample size.

give me Thompson any day of the week. I KNOW Thompson is going to play, play well, and give everything he has. Whiteside? not only do you not know if he is going to play or what kind of attitude he is bringing- but even if all those blocks ACTUALLY HELP....because right now? it sure doesnt look that way.


im sorry if you dont buy the stuff that says the defense is better without him- and he selfishly goes after blocks and boards at the expense of playing fundamental defense. I KNOW Tristan Thompson is pulling that shit- if you watched him in the playoffs i seriously have could not imagine picking an unreliable selfish player like Whiteside over him.

i seriously have no doubt that Whitesides career will end prematurely and end badly. Its just a matter of WHEN- not if.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

There are some solid analytics behind it, Whitehead is like 45th in allowed fg% on contested shots. That backs up the out of position too often argument. The case that he gives up o rebounds because he seeks the board instead of boxing out his man is solid too.

He is still a borderline all star, you can be good and overrated.

I get that.
I'll rephrase.
Who is rating him high, to force others to challenge it?

 

[WiggyRuss]

and yes- i did think it was hilarious how 3 European players were ripping on Whiteside on twitter and saying how stats do not tell near the whole story of a players actual worth.

lol...Ill agree with Rudy Gobert and Ethan Skolnik--- you guys can agree with TURNUPTHEHEAT!