I'd rather have Tristan or Whiteside Poll

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Those are talking heads opinions based on human sources with bias

have absolutely NOTHING to do what i am talking about- which is purely objective. You simply have no argument against this- and to do so would make you look like an idiot- so you try and conflate objective statistics with opinion- and its just not even close to the case.

That stat that shows the Heat play better defense when Whiteside is nailed ot the bench?!! THATS NOT STEPHEN A's oPINION- or MY OPINION- OR WOJ's OPINION------ thats 100% nonadultered objective FACT.

One stat we can all agree on.
Cavs 0 championships since inaugural year of 1970.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

oh yah-- i mean you guys gotta be right--- i bet a TON of the best shot blockers in NBA history had their team play better defense when they were on the bench like Whiteside,

Or maybe Whiteside is so dominant at parts of his game that teams altar their lineups to get him off the court which makes them worse offensively, which boots the Heats defensive stats with him out?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Once again, you are resorting to twisting words and making shit up because you are desperately trying to cling to yet another one of your incorrect statements.

I never said they slack on defense. I said they gamble less and are more focused defensively because they know they don't have an elite shot blocker to clean up their mistakes. It's a lot easier to justify gambling for steals, trying to jump passing lanes or be more concerned about getting in position for a fast break than staying in front of your man when you know you have someone to clean it up.

This is something that any of your "experts" would tell you and it's gone on in the NBA since the George Mikan days.

Every Heat player has said they can gamble more knowing Whiteside is there to defend the rim.

 

[trojanfan12]

Every Heat player has said they can gamble more knowing Whiteside is there to defend the rim.

Exactly. If the Lakers were to sign Whiteside, I guarantee that we'd see the same thing for awhile. Guys thinking that having an elite shot blocker means they can just go after any steal they want without worry.

 

[WiggyRuss]

wow you guys are creative....a guy is such a good rim protector- that the defensive statistics get worse with him on the floor....i gotta say ive heard it all now.

obviously blocks and rim protection are NOT NEARLY THE SAME THING

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

wow you guys are creative....a guy is such a good rim protector- that the defensive statistics get worse with him on the floor....i gotta say ive heard it all now.

obviously blocks and rim protection are NOT NEARLY THE SAME THING

So you know where all the opponents scoring is coming from?

Like I said, stats can be used in several different ways, but they don't tell the entire story.

The Heat have a much better chance to win when Whiteside plays and that is the only thing, I'll repeat, the only thing that matters.

 

[Heatles84]

One stat we can all agree on.
Cavs 0 championships since inaugural year of 1970.

And Wiggy would still find a way to disagree with you. But remember, he'll admit when he's wrong.

 

[tducey]

Tristan

 

[WiggyRuss]

this

So you know where all the opponents scoring is coming from?

Like I said, stats can be used in several different ways, but they don't tell the entire story.

The Heat have a much better chance to win when Whiteside plays and that is the only thing, I'll repeat, the only thing that matters.

this year the Heat are 5-2 without Whiteside

last year- after January when he started playing regularly- the Heat were 6-4

11-6 for a winning percentage of nearly 65%---- or significantly better % wise when he sits his ass on the pine.


in the words of Apu- THANK YOU COME AGAIN

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

this

this year the Heat are 5-2 without Whiteside

last year- after January when he started playing regularly- the Heat were 6-4

11-6 for a winning percentage of nearly 65%---- or significantly better % wise when he sits his ass on the pine.

in the words of Apu- THANK YOU COME AGAIN

That's pure science !!

Maybe text Riley/Spoesltra/Arison that so they know how dumb they are and how smart you are.


Cavs have a pretty good record without Kyrie and or Love.
Should they also be benched?

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's pure science !!

Maybe text Riley/Spoesltra/Arison that so they know how dumb they are and how smart you are.


Cavs have a pretty good record without Kyrie and or Love.
Should they also be benched?

do the stats say the team plays better with him on the bench? thats what i tend to go on--- you were the one saying you KNOW the Heat are better with Whiteside- yet they have a worse record and worse statistics with him....STRANGE huh? LOL.....

if your argument was a ship- id have poked so many holes in it by now that it would be at the bottom of Biscayne Bay. LOL....maybe while your down their salvaging it you could find where Rileys balls went to- he seems to have lost them a couple years ago. In his defense- he is an old man at over 70 and is clearly circling the drain.

 

[bksballer89]

this

this year the Heat are 5-2 without Whiteside

last year- after January when he started playing regularly- the Heat were 6-4

11-6 for a winning percentage of nearly 65%---- or significantly better % wise when he sits his ass on the pine.


in the words of Apu- THANK YOU COME AGAIN

That record had more to do with getting Deng, Beno, and Goran out. More than it has anything to do with Whiteside being out. Tell me how good they looked against Toronto that came when we had 8 healthy bodies. Also as previously noted the Heat made several changes to their offense after the Toronto game.

 

[bksballer89]

Dude you blame Whiteside for everything. This why you're a joke. The heat made changes to their offense and they got healthy as well. You're not going to win a lot of games when you're missing 4-5 rotation players. Beno and Deng came back for the Chicago game. Goran and McRoberts came back 2 games later in Milwaukee. When you get 4 players back in the same week, the team is obviously will play better. It is common sense

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

do the stats say the team plays better with him on the bench? thats what i tend to go on--- you were the one saying you KNOW the Heat are better with Whiteside- yet they have a worse record and worse statistics with him....STRANGE huh? LOL.....

if your argument was a ship- id have poked so many holes in it by now that it would be at the bottom of Biscayne Bay. LOL....maybe while your down their salvaging it you could find where Rileys balls went to- he seems to have lost them a couple years ago. In his defense- he is an old man at over 70 and is clearly circling the drain.

Actually I'm fairly certain that the Cavs statistically became much better on D when Love/Kyrie were out.
Am I wrong?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Dude you blame Whiteside for everything. This why you're a joke. The heat made changes to their offense and they got healthy as well. You're not going to win a lot of games when you're missing 4-5 rotation players. Beno and Deng came back for the Chicago game. Goran and McRoberts came back 2 games later in Milwaukee. When you get 4 players back in the same week, the team is obviously will play better. It is common sense

No way he grasps that.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Actually I'm fairly certain that the Cavs statistically became much better on D when Love/Kyrie were out.
Am I wrong?

i would think on its face that might be a fair assumption- but from the statistical stuff that I have read- at least with Love who has been there all year- he has some pretty solid advanced stats....would take some research. As guys that are among the best offensive players in the NBA- it would not surprise me if when they were replaced by solid defensive players like Delly, Thompson, Mozzy etc. that it would go down....lets see....

 

[Flauge]

What I don't understand is this.. Why are we arguing if the Heat are better with or without Whiteside? We can argue that... the differences of how it frees up Dragic's game and allows the Heat to slide Bosh (their best player) over to center, or start Amare, or even get Winslow into the lineup to start games.. All this is Heat personnel/coaching and playing style. Fitting players around other players and into systems isnt the question here. You are deviating from the originally question because your first stance is idiotic.

The question is who would you rather have on your team Tristan Thompson or Hassan Whiteside? Whiteside is the clear answer. He is averaging a double double and leading the league in blocks. Wiggy, your homerism is beyond moronic if you cant see this.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's pure science !!

Maybe text Riley/Spoesltra/Arison that so they know how dumb they are and how smart you are.


Cavs have a pretty good record without Kyrie and or Love.
Should they also be benched?

this was from an article from January 6th....i think itll be difficult to find the stats you are looking for- since unlike in Whitesides case where the numbers and appearance make up for such a LARGE disparity- and his pouting put even more attention on it- the articles for that were relatively EASY to find


Reading an article from ESPN today- I came across the following exceprt-

How does Love fit in?
Meanwhile, for all the concern about how Love has fit in (or fit out), Cleveland has been rolling along. Since David Blatt went to a lineup with a healthy Irving at point guard and Tristan Thompson at center in place of Timofey Mozgov, the Cavaliers are 5-0 and the starters are outscoring opponents by 20.1 points per 100 possessions, per NBA.com/Stats.

More generally, Cleveland has been outstanding when Love plays with Thompson this season, posting a plus-14.1 net rating per 100 possessions -- far better than the Cavaliers' plus-1.0 net rating when Love plays with Mozgov. As impressive, Love-Thompson lineups have allowed just 98.3 points per 100 possessions, a rate that would put them fourth in the league. (Cleveland ranks seventh overall in defensive rating.)



I wish that I had the ability to figure out where and how they garner these stats from rather than just waiting for the next article to come out. Umless there is a site that just punches out the stats- there is absolutely NO WAY to recreate the model ourselves and figure it out since is like 10 pages of crazy formulas for some of those advanced stats.

 

[WiggyRuss]

What I don't understand is this.. Why are we arguing if the Heat are better with or without Whiteside? We can argue that... the differences of how it frees up Dragic's game and allows the Heat to slide Bosh (their best player) over to center, or start Amare, or even get Winslow into the lineup to start games.. All this is Heat personnel/coaching and playing style. Fitting players around other players and into systems isnt the question here. You are deviating from the originally question because your first stance is idiotic.

The question is who would you rather have on your team Tristan Thompson or Hassan Whiteside? Whiteside is the clear answer. He is averaging a double double and leading the league in blocks. Wiggy, your homerism is beyond moronic if you cant see this.

its not that Whiteside just doesnt fit in the with the Heat- i dont know how he fits in anywhere with his skill set

where does a center that cant pass, cant shoot, and cant post up fit on offense?
where does a center that is supposedly this defensive maven, where the stats show the team is better without him on the court, fit? Where does a center fit that cant switch on defense? where does a center fit that cant guard out to the 3 pt line because he is too slow? where does a center fit that is too slow to show hard on the high pick and roll and get back to his man thats rolling to the bucket?

you think if they threw a big immobile center somewhere else he would be better? The guy cant even stay on the court against teams that run these small lineups where he is just a fish outta water- thats not a problem for him on the HEat- thats a problem for him in the NBA in 2016...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

What I don't understand is this.. Why are we arguing if the Heat are better with or without Whiteside? We can argue that... the differences of how it frees up Dragic's game and allows the Heat to slide Bosh (their best player) over to center, or start Amare, or even get Winslow into the lineup to start games.. All this is Heat personnel/coaching and playing style. Fitting players around other players and into systems isnt the question here. You are deviating from the originally question because your first stance is idiotic.

The question is who would you rather have on your team Tristan Thompson or Hassan Whiteside? Whiteside is the clear answer. He is averaging a double double and leading the league in blocks. Wiggy, your homerism is beyond moronic if you cant see this.

Perfectly said.
That is why Whiteside is prob gone next year.
The Heat has shown that they have the
vision and coaching to go in different directions.

They have to put a ceiling price on Whiteside, and when someone offers more, just let him go.