My Thoughts on a Kirk Extension

[ehb5]

I dont know, I was hoping one of you would just come out and tell us why you hope he fails?? I have an idea of why, mainly from what i have actually heard from some supposed fans at games this year. But since every one here is generally posting in PC mode, I doubt I get those kinds of bold admissions.

On top of all that - what exactly makes you think I personally am rooting against this team and it's quaterback? Please detail that. And why do you think I am (apparently) routing against them?

 

[ehb5]

I assume this blank post was accidental?

 

[Stymietee]

First off, if Kirk is getting that kind of offer from any one, odds are he exceeded all the haters expectations. Secondly if he did that, and this team lets him hit the open market, one would seriously have to doubt the sanity of the front office.

But saying he does get that kind of offer, it depends on WHAT our options are. IM going to call a spade a spade. I realize some of the fan base secretly hopes Kirk fails. I also realize most of those people are the same ones who felt Griffin should have been starting.

But considering some of the deals we have seen for QBs the past few years, I say Kirk Maxes out at around $19 mill a year unless he does something extremely special with the rest of the season. BUt I also think that if he continues to improve and play solid to good, the lowest we get him for is the $15.5 million a year mark.

We all seem to forget Matt Flynn got $9 million a year based on ONE start. Not saying it was a good deal. I am saying that the market for a guy who you are bringing in to be your starter is quit a bit higher than backup or rookie money.

I could be wrong but isn't KC a free agent at the end of this season? That means that the only leverage that Washington has is signing him before the season ends or let him test the market for what it's worth. The current number being tossed out is 17-18 mil for a starter on average, so my [Cleveland] numbers exceed that by a couple mill which doesn't seem beyond reasonable when the bidding starts If you object then support @ehb5 who also says that 17 is too much. (BTW: I agree)

On the whole Griffin -Cousins thing that you speak of........MEH (your opinion you're entitled)

On the rest of what you're saying about If this or if that......hell IF I was 35 to 40 years younger..........................

 

[Sharkinva]

On top of all that - what exactly makes you think I personally am rooting against this team and it's quaterback? Please detail that. And why do you think I am (apparently) routing against them?

ONce again.. I dont think you are against the team.. far from it. I do think you are against the player though. Tell me you have never looked at a player who was in your eyes marginal, or you thought there was a better option on the bench and thought... cant wait for the coaching staff to realize what a waste this guy is so they can get ( insert player X here) some playing time.

 

[Sharkinva]

I could be wrong but isn't KC a free agent at the end of this season? That means that the only leverage that Washington has is signing him before the season ends or let him test the market for what it's worth. The current number being tossed out is 17-18 mil for a starter on average, so my [Cleveland] numbers exceed that by a couple mill which doesn't seem beyond reasonable when the bidding starts If you object then support ehb5 who also says that 17 is too much. (BTW: I agree)

On the whole Griffin -Cousins thing that you speak of........MEH (your opinion you're entitled)

On the rest of what you're saying about If this or if that......hell IF I was 35 to 40 years younger..........................

You would still be 40 or 50 right??

But seriously.. .as I said. If Cousins is in the market for that kind of offer, it means the Front office likely screwed up and didnt resign him. In which case they likely should have used the franchise tag to begin with. I dont object to him getting that kind of money, because if he is being offered basically $8-10 million OVER the market, it means he did a whole lot better than some around here think he is capable of. I agree the market starts at $17, we MIGHT get a home town discount to $15.5, but I think if $12 is the best we offer him, he is gone.

 

[ehb5]

ONce again.. I dont think you are against the team.. far from it. I do think you are against the player though. Tell me you have never looked at a player who was in your eyes marginal, or you thought there was a better option on the bench and thought... cant wait for the coaching staff to realize what a waste this guy is so they can get ( insert player X here) some playing time.

Ok I understand. I'm sure I have thought that. But I think it's important to understand I don't think that with Kirk.

Let me say it clearly. Kirk cousins is the best quaterback on this roster and should be the starting quaterback for this team the rest of the season no matter what. In addition we should ABSOLUTELY try to extend him.

I disagree with you on how much we should pay him because I think he is less valuable than you do. This is no different than me saying "no shark I don't think Jordan reed is worth 8 million dollars a year I think you're overating him a little". So while I'm glad you don't think I have something against the team I still don't understand why you think I hate kirk or am "against" him.

 

[Stymietee]

You would still be 40 or 50 right??

But seriously.. .as I said. If Cousins is in the market for that kind of offer, it means the Front office likely screwed up and didnt resign him. In which case they likely should have used the franchise tag to begin with. I dont object to him getting that kind of money, because if he is being offered basically $8-10 million OVER the market, it means he did a whole lot better than some around here think he is capable of. I agree the market starts at $17, we MIGHT get a home town discount to $15.5, but I think if $12 is the best we offer him, he is gone.

I'm not so sure that it would be a FO screw up Shark, after all if you were his agent would you really tell him to sign here without testing the market? I honestly don't think that they will use the FT on him, this years FT number is 18.5 mill so he would be getting greater than that for 2016.

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm not so sure that it would be a FO screw up Shark, after all if you were his agent would you really tell him to sign here without testing the market? I honestly don't think that they will use the FT on him, this years FT number is 18.5 mill so he would be getting greater than that for 2016.

Sty, if they were willing to pick up $16.2 million for RG3, how can they NOT tag Cousins ( this assumes he continues to improve obviously). You use the tag and let him test the market. Now if he gets some ridiculous $22 million a year offer... then yes you let him walk. Take the two first rounders and roll with it. But again, if we are offering $15.5 to $17 million before FA opens, why would his agent need to tell him to test the market??

 

[Stymietee]

Sty, if they were willing to pick up $16.2 million for RG3, how can they NOT tag Cousins ( this assumes he continues to improve obviously). You use the tag and let him test the market. Now if he gets some ridiculous $22 million a year offer... then yes you let him walk. Take the two first rounders and roll with it. But again, if we are offering $15.5 to $17 million before FA opens, why would his agent need to tell him to test the market??

Easy answer, because in the judgement of some at the time RGIII had or still has a greater upside. We are still waiting to see if Kirk has any more to his game as is evidenced by the numerous ifs, supposes, hopefullys, and such relating to the rest of this season. One thing is clear 10 games in (17 in all) and we're still waiting. We are long past Griffin, it's all about Kirk.

 

[Sharkinva]

Easy answer, because in the judgement of some at the time RGIII had or still has a greater upside. We are still waiting to see if Kirk has any more to his game as is evidenced by the numerous ifs, supposes, hopefullys, and such relating to the rest of this season. One thing is clear 10 games in (17 in all) and we're still waiting. We are long past Griffin, it's all about Kirk.

Sty... I think Griffin has a lot more IFs than Cousins at this point.

IF he can actually learn to read defenses
IF he can actually stay healthy
IF he can pull his head out of his ass and refrain from blaming the rest of the team
and
IF he can avoid taking meaningless hits and sacks
He MIGHT become more than a Mike Vick upgrade.

ON the flip side, Cousins HAS steadily improved through out the season.
He doesnt take needless sacks or hold ont othe ball too long
He has cut down on his turn overs and also doesnt crumble when one does eventually happen
He does do what you expect from a team leader, give praise to the team for success, and take all the blame if the team fails even when it wasnt all on him.

So remind me again, which one actually has more upside at this point?? I mean aside from the Subways commercials, what exactly does RG3 have in his favor at the moment??

 

[Stymietee]

Sty... I think Griffin has a lot more IFs than Cousins at this point.

IF he can actually learn to read defenses
IF he can actually stay healthy
IF he can pull his head out of his ass and refrain from blaming the rest of the team
and
IF he can avoid taking meaningless hits and sacks
He MIGHT become more than a Mike Vick upgrade.

ON the flip side, Cousins HAS steadily improved through out the season.
He doesnt take needless sacks or hold ont othe ball too long
He has cut down on his turn overs and also doesnt crumble when one does eventually happen
He does do what you expect from a team leader, give praise to the team for success, and take all the blame if the team fails even when it wasnt all on him.

So remind me again, which one actually has more upside at this point?? I mean aside from the Subways commercials, what exactly does RG3 have in his favor at the moment??

Not to get back on point but, your question was about KC not Griffin.

 

[Sharkinva]

Not to get back on point but, your question was about KC not Griffin.

Its ok, I realize thats a trick question. SO I will let it slide. But lets get back to Cousins as you suggested. Right now would you say he is better than Tannehill, Hoyer, Foles and Bradford?? Most would. Those are the contracts his deal will be based off of, so yes I would say he is worth the $17 mill unless he has a total melt down.

 

[BeaReylo]

KC has leverage over the Redskins when contract talks come. Especially if he plays well. We are not a top 10 pick ehb. cmon.

If The Skins finish outside a top ten pick then they should definitely resign Cousins. It means the team did well with him at helm, plus theres a derth of QBs to pick from, this, off-season. At least the organization knows what it has in him.

 

[Stymietee]

Its ok, I realize thats a trick question. SO I will let it slide. But lets get back to Cousins as you suggested. Right now would you say he is better than Tannehill, Hoyer, Foles and Bradford?? Most would. Those are the contracts his deal will be based off of, so yes I would say he is worth the $17 mill unless he has a total melt down.

Better than? No! On par with possibly with the exception of a healthy Bradford. (I know what's that?) Here's the thing exchange him for anyone of those guy in this offense and you know what you get? Improvement!!! On the other hand, him on their teams and the play is either about the same or worse. I believe that the whole point is does the system make him better or does he by his presence make guys around him better. If there was a vote on those points ONLY the former would win in a landslide. ( now watch some fool say something about the offensive line)

 

[Sportster 72]

Sty and Ehb must be brothers. When every single post is negative towards a player or you jump in to give the same negative posts then it seems human nature would tell you that that poster has some reason for not liking the guy. Of course I could be wrong. Moreover I don't care.

I said yesterday, if you don't like Cousins approach lay out a better scenario. As far as how much salary he gets we can debate that until the cows come home. Not up to us and it is nothing more than an opinion whether the correct amount is paid or not. Sty doesn't hate Garcon but at every chance he protests about his contract. The same has started in regards to Kerrigan.

I don't know if Cousins is Jason Campbell, Trent Green or Gus Frerotte. I like the way he is trending. Everyone's complaint was he threw too many pics. So the past 4 games he has thrown 2, one a perfect pass dropped by an way over paid Garcon (insert LOL.) What's next? His YPA isn't enough. Lets add fumbles now. He had two, way too many.

In the end it really doesn't matter it is just Forum fodder. I will repeat when each post that contains Cousins name is a negative post it is human nature to think there is some other reason you don't like him. I see it as no different that "this is the most important game of his career" posts which I think there have been 10 of those so far.

To each their own. I will continue to hope he keep getting better with experience until SM decides someone else needs to be the QB.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Sty... I think Griffin has a lot more IFs than Cousins at this point.

IF he can actually learn to read defenses
IF he can actually stay healthy
IF he can pull his head out of his ass and refrain from blaming the rest of the team
and
IF he can avoid taking meaningless hits and sacks
He MIGHT become more than a Mike Vick upgrade.

Cmon man - you are better than this. As I posted elsewhere - RG3 has been a model citizen this season. I believe he even stated the other day that fans should not give up on the team & is being one of the best Redskins and Cousins supporters at this time. Are you going to hold this grudge forever?

Let it go already. Celebrate Cousins & the Redskins if/when they do well. However - you don't need to always use this time to also bash RG3. He made some mistakes a while ago & is moving on (& most likely will be elsewhere in 2016). I truly believe that it is a waste of time to constantly dwell on the past.

 

[skinsdad62]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Obviously those guys I named aren't more than a stop gap. I get that. My point is there is a limit to Kirk's value. If we go past that limit I'd rather find a stopgap on the cheap until we find our franchise QB.

my point is if he walks that is what you get theories aside

 

[ehb5]

my point is if he walks that is what you get theories aside

I understand that. And I don't love those options but I think they're better than overpaying kirk.

 

[Sharkinva]

I understand that. And I don't love those options but I think they're better than overpaying kirk.

OK lets try a different approach. Lets forget about how much his contract might or might not be for a second.

If cost is NOT a factor.... would you right now take any of those available options over Kirk??


Because to be honest, I realize WHY people got into worrying about the salary cap 6 years ago. But with the way it is structured now... unless a team does something really really stupid ( Like 5 Years $100 million fully guaranteed), teams have to actually WORK at it to run afoul of the cap.

Now after you answer this, IM going to throw you an example no one has really thought of that might shock you.

 

[ehb5]

OK lets try a different approach. Lets forget about how much his contract might or might not be for a second.

If cost is NOT a factor.... would you right now take any of those available options over Kirk??


Because to be honest, I realize WHY people got into worrying about the salary cap 6 years ago. But with the way it is structured now... unless a team does something really really stupid ( Like 5 Years $100 million fully guaranteed), teams have to actually WORK at it to run afoul of the cap.

Now after you answer this, IM going to throw you an example no one has really thought of that might shock you.

Ok I'll bite. No I wouldn't. Some can probably play him to a draw but factoring age I'd take kirk in a vacuum. I assume this is referring to the FA qbs I named btw.