My Thoughts on a Kirk Extension

[skinsdad62]

I understand that. And I don't love those options but I think they're better than overpaying kirk.

how is paying KC 21st rate pay overpaying ?

 

[ehb5]

how is paying KC 21st rate pay overpaying ?

What does 21st put him at? 17 mil?

 

[Sharkinva]

Ok I'll bite. No I wouldn't. Some can probably play him to a draw but factoring age I'd take kirk in a vacuum. I assume this is referring to the FA qbs I named btw.

Actually it was refering to the FA's and rookie QBs we can realistically expect to be available....


Now watch this...


NOw Im going to HIGH BALL some numbers, and mind you Im using straight numbers no funny math.

Lets say we do the mind blowing and sign Kirk to a deal that averages $18.5 a year over 4 years

$74 million, 20 million in Bonus with straight bases of 4M 10M 20M and 20M. I know this is high, but stick with me.

The Exclusive rights tag is $25 million. With the deal I just laid out, we basically took the Exclusive rights tag $25 million and paid it up front, with a three year option. Because in year two, we could cut him at no loss as apposed to just tagging him and having to start dealing from there.

I know I know we CANT afford that.

Right now our cap space for 2016 is at 6.6 million. I expect we will carry over another $3. So thats $9.6 million.

So we would have extended Kirk, and would be at basically $.5 million in space before any other moves.

Yes I know we cant ride into the off season with 1/2 million in cap space.

But again, thats before ANY other roster moves.


Between cuts and renegotiations ( and IM doing all this with the mind set of not even counting the release of RG3) we could still have around $28 million in cap space. Minus $5 for the rookie class, we would have around $23 million.... before releasing RG3.


And this is giving Kirk an average of $3 million a year MORE than I expect he will ultimately stay for.

 

[ehb5]

Actually it was refering to the FA's and rookie QBs we can realistically expect to be available....


Now watch this...


NOw Im going to HIGH BALL some numbers, and mind you Im using straight numbers no funny math.

Lets say we do the mind blowing and sign Kirk to a deal that averages $18.5 a year over 4 years

$74 million, 20 million in Bonus with straight bases of 4M 10M 20M and 20M. I know this is high, but stick with me.

The Exclusive rights tag is $25 million. With the deal I just laid out, we basically took the Exclusive rights tag $25 million and paid it up front, with a three year option. Because in year two, we could cut him at no loss as apposed to just tagging him and having to start dealing from there.

I know I know we CANT afford that.

Right now our cap space for 2016 is at 6.6 million. I expect we will carry over another $3. So thats $9.6 million.

So we would have extended Kirk, and would be at basically $.5 million in space before any other moves.

Yes I know we cant ride into the off season with 1/2 million in cap space.

But again, thats before ANY other roster moves.


Between cuts and renegotiations ( and IM doing all this with the mind set of not even counting the release of RG3) we could still have around $28 million in cap space. Minus $5 for the rookie class, we would have around $23 million.... before releasing RG3.


And this is giving Kirk an average of $3 million a year MORE than I expect he will ultimately stay for.

So you're saying 4/74 with 20 mil guaranteed that's all paid in the first year? Or am I misunderstanding you?

 

[Sharkinva]

So you're saying 4/74 with 20 mil guaranteed that's all paid in the first year? Or am I misunderstanding you?

4 years $74 million, $24m of it paid in year one. Essentially it becomes the Exclusive rights tag with a three year option. His cap hit does not go above $15 million until year 3. If we decide he is not the answer, we cut him in year 3, and save $14 million against the cap. Esentially we would have paid him

$20 million in guaranteed money. $4 million in base for year one, and 10 Million for year two. $34 million or... $17 million a year. IF he is rocking out come year three, we simply extend him and lower his cap hits from there. If he fails after year one, we cut him only having paid in essence the franchise tag price any way.

Win Win for both sides.

 

[Sharkinva]

Also mind you, that is ALL straight money, no roster, workout or performance bonuses. Factor in those, and team liability as far as the cap goes down a bit more as well.

 

[ehb5]

4 years $74 million, $24m of it paid in year one. Essentially it becomes the Exclusive rights tag with a three year option. His cap hit does not go above $15 million until year 3. If we decide he is not the answer, we cut him in year 3, and save $14 million against the cap. Esentially we would have paid him

$20 million in guaranteed money. $4 million in base for year one, and 10 Million for year two. $34 million or... $17 million a year. IF he is rocking out come year three, we simply extend him and lower his cap hits from there. If he fails after year one, we cut him only having paid in essence the franchise tag price any way.

Win Win for both sides.

Sure. With that little guaranteed. He'd be overpaid year 1 but that might be worth it depending on who else we would've signed anyway but yea that's not a terrible deal. Overpay year 1 to make sure you know what you have I guess.

 

[Sharkinva]

Sure. With that little guaranteed. He'd be overpaid year 1 but that might be worth it depending on who else we would've signed anyway but yea that's not a terrible deal. Overpay year 1 to make sure you know what you have I guess.

Well if you look at the grand scheme.. ALL these guys are overpaid. The average Median Income in the US for 2015 was $27k

The minimum a practice squad player got was $75k or almost 3 times the average salary.

 

[ehb5]

Well if you look at the grand scheme.. ALL these guys are overpaid. The average Median Income in the US for 2015 was $27k

The minimum a practice squad player got was $75k or almost 3 times the average salary.

Haha yes if you want to go there yea sure. In the scheme of the nfl I think that would be overpaying him but with that little guaranteed I'd tolerate it. Keep in mind though when I say I don't want to overpay kirk - I think there are other overpaid qbs in the nfl. It's not just kirk hate.

 

[Sharkinva]

Haha yes if you want to go there yea sure. In the scheme of the nfl I think that would be overpaying him but with that little guaranteed I'd tolerate it. Keep in mind though when I say I don't want to overpay kirk - I think there are other overpaid qbs in the nfl. It's not just kirk hate.

And I think what you are refusing to accept is that there is a market. And the market to a degree sets the price.

Now I agree if Kirk were being signed to compete for the starting gig, that is over market value. But if Im his agent, much like when selling a house, Im going to look and see what the houses in the area have gone for, and base my asking price in that range. IM also going to look at what other options the buyer has.

We both know that our options are

1. Resign Kirk
2. Take one of the scrap heap guys which basically means calling next year a wash
3. Draft a QB, again calling next year a wash
4. Last option, retain Griffin, let Kirk walk and once again be in the same position next year of do we resign or go in a different direction

Now we could go for a combination of 2 and 3.... But then you got to ask what serves the team better, and is the cost savings of $3-5 million worth essentially starting over at the QB position yet again.

 

[Sharkinva]

Also to put the Kirk deal into a little perspective...

Tannehill got $77 million in new money with $21.5 guaranteed and $19.25M average per year. The Dolphins can cut him after 2016 and will have in effect paid him $14.05 Million per year.

 

[ehb5]

And I think what you are refusing to accept is that there is a market. And the market to a degree sets the price.

Now I agree if Kirk were being signed to compete for the starting gig, that is over market value. But if Im his agent, much like when selling a house, Im going to look and see what the houses in the area have gone for, and base my asking price in that range. IM also going to look at what other options the buyer has.

We both know that our options are

1. Resign Kirk
2. Take one of the scrap heap guys which basically means calling next year a wash
3. Draft a QB, again calling next year a wash
4. Last option, retain Griffin, let Kirk walk and once again be in the same position next year of do we resign or go in a different direction

Now we could go for a combination of 2 and 3.... But then you got to ask what serves the team better, and is the cost savings of $3-5 million worth essentially starting over at the QB position yet again.

I just dont buy that because everybody else is stupid enough to pay a mediocre quaterback that we should too.

 

[Sharkinva]

I just dont buy that because everybody else is stupid enough to pay a mediocre quaterback that we should too.

Money as an excuse to go in another direction will only go so far dude. There are only really about 7 franchise QBs in the league, the other 32 fall some where between average and bad. Now Kirk is currently in the average range.

 

[ehb5]

Money as an excuse to go in another direction will only go so far dude. There are only really about 7 franchise QBs in the league, the other 32 fall some where between average and bad. Now Kirk is currently in the average range.

And I disagree. I think there's more that are good than you do and I think Kirk falls on the low end of average if he's even there.

 

[Sportster 72]

What is old is new again. We were talking about contracts like this for Cousins several weeks ago. A Tannehill, Kap, Daulton type contract. You pay for next year but you write it so you can get out of it the year after or worst case 2 years after.

Unless SM can pull a rabbit out of a hat (maybe he can) it is going to take a year or two to get anyone here that is ready to play. Meanwhile you are still rebuilding the rest of the team. If he continues to improve .... well that would be just wonderful.

 

[gkekoa]

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Obviously those guys I named aren't more than a stop gap. I get that. My point is there is a limit to Kirk's value. If we go past that limit I'd rather find a stopgap on the cheap until we find our franchise QB.

They don't actually read what we write. Just sit back and enjoy. Wait for them to be wrong and enjoy.

They don't seem to get you would rather a McCown for 5 mil over KC at 17 mil. But you would take KC at say 10 mil over McCown at 5 mil.

 

[j_y19]

They don't actually read what we write. Just sit back and enjoy. Wait for them to be wrong and enjoy.

They don't seem to get you would rather a McCown for 5 mil over KC at 17 mil. But you would take KC at say 10 mil over McCown at 5 mil.

You are right, I don't get McCown for 5 over KC for17. You know why, because I want the redskins to be in the position to win as soon as possible, regardless of the price. McCown or any of the other clowns I've seen mentioned means we are starting over, again, and next year (and probably a few years after that since these clowns will be short term rentals) is now wasted. Apparently you are more concerned with saving Dan's money. Brilliant.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

I just dont buy that because everybody else is stupid enough to pay a mediocre quaterback that we should too.

It's the market, there's nothing stupid about it. If they aren't willing to pay market price someone else will. Then prepare yourself for a season with Colt or anoher retread and another lost season.

 

[ehb5]

It's the market, there's nothing stupid about it. If they aren't willing to pay market price someone else will. Then prepare yourself for a season with Colt or anoher retread and another lost season.

So because the market says Matt Stafford should get 20 mil a year its automatically right? No. There are stupid teams that overpay for mediocrity. We dont have to be one of those stupid teams. If somebody else wants to be that stupid team - fine.

 

[Breed]

IQUOTE="ehb5, post: 7601729, member: 5660"]
I would add Colt to that second list. However before anyone goes nuts with that, here's why. They both run Gruden's offense in fact Gruden himself was pushing for Colt to be his guy a year ago.That said Kirk has a stronger arm but Colt is head and shoulders above Kirk when the play breaks down and the QB must improvise. So somewhat of a wash there. There are no glaring differences between the two beyond those mentioned. If anyone can come up with differential comparisons beyond those spit them out. I firmly believe that Kirk got the starting nod because Arm trumped creativity. Using "he's the best option" has been overplayed, because that ends at the conclusion of the final game and I've given another option in this thread. No one can say the McCoy could have done the same or better given what's being asked.

Colt is injury prone, KC isn't or at least hasn't been up to this point. KC is also a better pocket manipulator, significantly so imo, than Colt. Colt has more moxie than KC, which imo is Colt's only advantage over KC.