Does Fantasy Football dictate how we judge players?

[sonnyblack65]

Eli Manning just passed Joe Montana on the all time TD passes list

Average

LOL

Eli is a good QB problem is he throws to many picks . Thats my definition of a great QB Favre with all his records for playing 20 years mean shit when he gives it away

Edit you posted same thing after

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Eli is a good QB problem is he throws to many picks . Thats my definition of a great QB Favre with all his records for playing 20 years mean shit when he gives it away

Edit you posted same thing after

Absolutely, definitely has been frustrating at time

 

[PatsFan2003]

If he didnt have 2 SB rings, one of them (2007) coming with the 26th ranked defense and dead last ranked rushing attack, and the other (2011) coming in a postseason run where HE was absolutely awesome, than you would be right, we would be relying on only stats

So Eli has both the stats and rings, not to mention, a guy thats never missed a game in his career, in an era where guys get hurt brushing their teeth, and we call that "Average"?

I respectfully dis-agree, i think by time Eli is finished, he will be very much in the conversation for the HOF

Again, you're blinded by stats. A 26th ranked defense of what? Yardage, points? For the entire season? Anyone with a pair eyeballs could see what that 26th defense did in the Superbowl. If those stats can't explain that discrepancy then they are caca. Same with the stat that Eli having more TDs than Joe Montana is somehow significant.

Manning deserves all the credit in the world for his playoff performances where he played outstanding. He deserves his Rings. And that may get him into the HOF, but his regular season performances have always been woefully inconsistent and ... Average.

 

[Hank Kingsley]

Fantasy football dictates the way I judge the Chets who play it....

 

[sonnyblack65]

Absolutely, definitely has been frustrating at time

but he has brought 2 Lombardi's and one against arguably the best team ever so he is good in my/Giants fans mind. How many QB's besides Ben ,Brady or Eli can say that lately?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Again, you're blinded by stats. A 26th ranked defense of what? Yardage, points? For the entire season? Anyone with a pair eyeballs could see what that 26th defense did in the Superbowl. If those stats can't explain that discrepancy then they are caca. Same with the stat that Eli having more TDs than Joe Montana is somehow significant.

Manning deserves all the credit in the world for his playoff performances where he played outstanding. He deserves his Rings. And that may get him into the HOF, but his regular season performances have always been woefully inconsistent and ... Average.

I you cant measure Qb's by stats and Rings, Im not sure what that leaves us with

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

but he has brought 2 Lombardi's and one against arguably the best team ever so he is good in my/Giants fans mind. How many QB's besides Ben ,Brady or Eli can say that lately?

Its what has earned him a lifetime pass here

Hypothetically, if Lynch bowls in from one yard out, and the Pats are still on a decade plus without a ring, Im sure that wouldnt affect how Pats fans view Brady

 

[sonnyblack65]

Its what has earned him a lifetime pass here

Hypothetically, if Lynch bowls in from one yard out, and the Pats are still on a decade plus without a ring, Im sure that wouldnt affect how Pats fans view Brady

Right 1 SB is tough never mind two. I watched these Pats lose shit for 30 years before Brady replace Bledsoe, I almost love him in a Rock way

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Not at all 1 SB is tough never mind too. I watched these Pats lose shit for 30 years before Brady replace Bledsoe, I almost love him in a Rock way

Impossible, you watched them pre-Brady, so that eliminates you from the Rock competition of Brady Love

 

[sonnyblack65]

Impossible, you watched them pre-Brady, so that eliminates you from the Rock competition of Brady Love

I watched the 1-15 and 2-14 seasons doormats

 

[PatsFan2003]

I you cant measure Qb's by stats and Rings, Im not sure what that leaves us with

People talk about the eyeball test. For me if the stats are inconsistent with what I see on the field then I question what the stats are based on. Stats are just a starter.. They need to support the reality that people see on the field. Same with Rings. It's something but it's not everything. Same with stats.

Dan Marino is most definitely a better QB that many Super Bowl winning QBs.

The 2007 Giants are a great example. I specifically remember that because they positively SUCKED for at least the first half of the season, There was serious talk of firing Coughlin and benching Manning (who also was pathetic at the time too). But they didn't and instead squeaked into the playoffs and had a hell of a postseason.

Giving hope to wildcard teams everywhere ever since.

So saying the Giant had a 26th ranked defense is a meaningless stat. It could easily be biased based on their early season ineptitude, it could measure yardage over point, whatever. It should be thrown out and ignored.

Same with citing Eli's TDs as something significant over Montana. Really?

 

[RP-29]

You are proving my point exactly, calling Cam an average at best real world QB (based on his completion % I suppose) versus judging him on how he contributes to winning games.

Sunday I watched Cam - with no defensive pressure - throw a ball 10 feet over a wide open receiver's outstretched arms jumping for the ball who was only about 10-15 yards down the field. Cam also inexcusably missed a wide open touchdown pass on a short out by three full yards.

Cam may get some fantasy points and the occasional winning streak, but he does not consistently throw an accurate ball or consistently make the right decision with the football. When an elite quarterback misses, it's by a couple inches, not a few yards. If the Panthers ever win a Superbowl with Cam, it will be every bit despite of Cam as because of Cam. Same with Eli.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

People talk about the eyeball test. For me if the stats are inconsistent with what I see on the field then I question what the stats are based on. Stats are just a starter.. They need to support the reality that people see on the field. Same with Rings. It's something but it's not everything. Same with stats.

Dan Marino is most definitely a better QB that many Super Bowl winning QBs.

The 2007 Giants are a great example. I specifically remember that because they positively SUCKED for at least the first half of the season, There was serious talk of firing Coughlin and benching Manning (who also was pathetic at the time too). But they didn't and instead squeaked into the playoffs and had a hell of a postseason.

Giving hope to wildcard teams everywhere ever since.

So saying the Giant had a 26th ranked defense is a meaningless stat. It could easily be biased based on their early season ineptitude, it could measure yardage over point, whatever. It should be thrown out and ignored.

Same with citing Eli's TDs as something significant over Montana. Really?

I hear ya....

Howevah!

I do wonder if you would have the same opinion of every QB that passes Joe Montana on the all time TD list.....Without looking, I assume each and every one is probably pretty damn good, if not a HOF QB, so I wouldnt exactly label it as meaningless.....

And as quick you are to point out how great that 26th ranked defense was during that run, and you are correct, you fail to point out how well Eli played during both of those postseason runs, especially the 2011 run

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Sunday I watched Cam - with no defensive pressure - throw a ball 10 feet over a wide open receiver's outstretched arms jumping for the ball who was only about 10-15 yards down the field. Cam also inexcusably missed a wide open touchdown pass on a short out by three full yards.

Cam may get some fantasy points and the occasional winning streak, but he does not consistently throw an accurate ball or consistently make the right decision with the football. When an elite quarterback misses, it's by a couple inches, not a few yards. If the Panthers ever win a Superbowl with Cam, it will be every bit despite of Cam as because of Cam. Same with Eli.

Eli has proven that wrong already

But i happen to agree with you on Cam

 

[PatsFan2003]

No way is Eli an average QB...his career kind of parallels Ben's...both have 2 rings and a buncha yards...are they HOF worthy? If the party stopped this season...I think they get in, but not 1st ballot.

I think Manning will get in based on his postseason play but he's always been an inconsistent QB for most his career.

Rothlesberger has grown and improved over the years. He started out good and being impossible to take down. And turned that into being one of the best QBs at extending plays of this generation. To the point of that almost being his trademark as a great QB.

He might be a 1st ballot HOFer.

 

[PatsFan2003]

I hear ya....

Howevah!

I do wonder if you would have the same opinion of every QB that passes Joe Montana on the all time TD list.....Without looking, I assume each and every one is probably pretty damn good, if not a HOF QB, so I wouldnt exactly label it as meaningless.....

And as quick you are to point out how great that 26th ranked defense was during that run, and you are correct, you fail to point out how well Eli played during both of those postseason runs, especially the 2011 run

If you look back, I'm pretty sure I gave him credit, but the D was the real story of the Superbowl. Well except for the magic play at the end.

In many ways this 2015 Patriots team is much tougher mentally than the 2007 team. Depending on what offensive line is available, I think it would weather the 2007 Giants D much better.

I think you have to realize the advantage QBs of this generation have going for them. Even Brady.. I don't think his numbers would be nearly as gaudy if he played in the early SB years. Although I think (as a Patriots fan) he would still excel.

 

[RP-29]

Eli has proven that wrong already

But i happen to agree with you on Cam

Both times Eli went on Superbowl runs, he was constantly overcoming his own mistakes and shortcomings. I give him a ton of credit for persevering, but a truly elite quarterback doesn't get himself and his team in those predicaments to begin with.

Also, elite quarterbacks own their division. Guys like Eli and Cam are good enough to compete for their division title but never own it.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Both times Eli went on Superbowl runs, he was constantly overcoming his own mistakes and shortcomings. I give him a ton of credit for persevering, but a truly elite quarterback doesn't get himself and his team in those predicaments to begin with.

Also, elite quarterbacks own their division. Guys like Eli and Cam are good enough to compete for their division title but never own it.

You couldnt be more wrong.....feel free to look at the Game Logs from both of Eli's SB runs, and tell me thats a QB the team won "in spite" of him

Than look at Cams' postseason game logs

Think you may think twice about putting them in the same boat

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

If you look back, I'm pretty sure I gave him credit, but the D was the real story of the Superbowl. Well except for the magic play at the end.

In many ways this 2015 Patriots team is much tougher mentally than the 2007 team. Depending on what offensive line is available, I think it would weather the 2007 Giants D much better.

I think you have to realize the advantage QBs of this generation have going for them. Even Brady.. I don't think his numbers would be nearly as gaudy if he played in the early SB years. Although I think (as a Patriots fan) he would still excel.

really? No Shit

LOL

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Both times Eli went on Superbowl runs, he was constantly overcoming his own mistakes and shortcomings. I give him a ton of credit for persevering, but a truly elite quarterback doesn't get himself and his team in those predicaments to begin with.

Also, elite quarterbacks own their division. Guys like Eli and Cam are good enough to compete for their division title but never own it.

And on the last thing with the divisions? This obviously has a LOT to do with the teams in your division

Andrew Luck will spend an entire career "owning" the AFC South, and im not really speaking to the greatness of Andrew Luck