Decision III ?

[WiggyRuss]

Would you give Lebron 5 years 200 million? 40 million per year

what do you think LEBron would make if there was no max contract like baseball?

I think hed probably make about 60-70M- maybe more even. Jordan- in the nineties was making in the mid thirties.

 

[lakersrule]

as a billionaire 4 times over Gilbert is in the unique position of being able to handle the burden of those punitive luxury tax penalties- at least for a year or two until the cap goes way way up.

He could definitely afford it. I just find it funny that what he fought hard for will come back and bite him in the ass.

 

[WiggyRuss]

He could definitely afford it. I just find it funny that what he fought hard for will come back and bite him in the ass.

well- it depends on how you look at it- if he is willing to pay- and those penalties make other people not willing to pay- it has actually worked to his advantage----- as long as he doesnt care to spend the cash. If he effectively priced other teams out - while still being able and willing to himself- didnt he create a competitive advantage for himself and any other super-rich owners that are willing to pay?

 

[GenJac]

Lebron has this clause in there to make sure the owner pays his teammates and brings in good talent on the team. Lebron won't re-sign with Cleveland until he sees what the roster will look like, and then again next year. Both are valid reasons because Dan Gilbert will back out of it and trade players to save money. Lebron is just making sure his teammates make as much as possible and the owner will probably have to pay a luxury tax this year when it's all said and done.

 

[trojanfan12]

Funny how Cavs fans can't see the hypocrisy in what Gilbert is doing. Funnier that it's going to cost him more money than it would have if he hadn't had a bitch fit a couple of years ago because he wanted to protect his NBA welfare check.

 

[Heatles84]

as a billionaire 4 times over Gilbert is in the unique position of being able to handle the burden of those punitive luxury tax penalties- at least for a year or two until the cap goes way way up.

it seems like everything is going smoothly- as it is anticipated Love will resign (I really hope they get him for more than just 1 guaranteed year- I'd give Love the opt out after 2 years- but not one)- they will ante up and resign TT- and match any offer if they must. I am thinking TT gets something like 4 years 60- or close to it- maybe 4 years 56....Shumpert will get something like 3 years between 21-27M...I kinda think they let Smith go and use the HAywood contract to find a wing to replace him- and then they use the tax-payer mid level (3.3M or whatever) to sign a backup guard like a Mo Williams,- and the rest vet minimum for guys at the end chasing a championship.

Something like the below will result

PG- Kyrie- 16M a year
SG- Shumpert- 7-9M a year
SF- LeBron- 22M
PF- Love- 19M
C- Mozgov- 5M

Bench
Thompson- 14M
Varejao- 10M
Mo Willimas like player with taxpayer midlevel- 4M
Haywood trade for wing/guard player making like 8M a year
Delly- 3M
Joe HArris- 1M
Sasha Kaun is supposedly ocming over- but i anticipate him being dealt in the HAywood deal
D. Christmas- PF- the guy they just drafted 36 overall- wouldnt be surprised if he was moved in haywood deal

thats a whole lotta money Gilbert is going to be paying this year.....CRAZY amounts- like possibly the most in league history---- next year the cap jumps to an estimated 90M so he will only have to pay the crazy tax 1 year.

For fuck sake, stop mentioning Gilbert being a billionaire. Just about every owner in the NBA is a billionaire. It's been mentioned numerous times it doesn't matter how much a owner has in his pockets; they're still limited by what they could do with their roster given the restrictions of the CBA on the salary cap. It's like dealing with a fucking child.

 

[WiggyRuss]

For fuck sake, stop mentioning Gilbert being a billionaire. Just about every owner in the NBA is a billionaire. It's been mentioned numerous times it doesn't matter how much a owner has in his pockets; they're still limited by what they could do with their roster given the restrictions of the CBA on the salary cap. It's like dealing with a fucking child.

what are you basing that on?

So let me get it- you are saying that- it can be assumed that because of the penalties put in place no owner is going to spend that kind of cash even if they are a billionaire?
You are saying- ti doesnt matter if you have 1 billion, or 4 billion, or 12 billion, or 20 billion or more- the owners are not going to spend because of the rules they instituted?

you are just patently wrong. Sorry. You just are.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Funny how Cavs fans can't see the hypocrisy in what Gilbert is doing. Funnier that it's going to cost him more money than it would have if he hadn't had a bitch fit a couple of years ago because he wanted to protect his NBA welfare check.

how do you know its not working out EXACTLY like Gilbert wanted because he has always known he is willing to pay those prices while other owners are unwilling.

I mean- if I am going to go on how it turned out you have to look at what has actually happened-

So what is actually happening? There are big time punitive luxury tax penalties for teams that go into the tax. Gilbert is going to have one of the biggest tax bills/player expenditures in league history this year- if not THE BIGGEST

If i am looking at the situation from 5 feet away- it sure looks like Gilbert pushed for a bunch of rules to pass that would keep his competitors from spending- but it has not kept him from spending.

If he does not care about the money he spends on the team- it it sure looks like he doesnt- and his priority- over cash- is to win a title- id say he has played it pretty darn perfectly if you ask me.

 

[trojanfan12]

how do you know its not working out EXACTLY like Gilbert wanted because he has always known he is willing to pay those prices while other owners are unwilling.

I mean- if I am going to go on how it turned out you have to look at what has actually happened-

So what is actually happening? There are big time punitive luxury tax penalties for teams that go into the tax. Gilbert is going to have one of the biggest tax bills/player expenditures in league history this year- if not THE BIGGEST

If i am looking at the situation from 5 feet away- it sure looks like Gilbert pushed for a bunch of rules to pass that would keep his competitors from spending- but it has not kept him from spending.

If he does not care about the money he spends on the team- it it sure looks like he doesnt- and his priority- over cash- is to win a title- id say he has played it pretty darn perfectly if you ask me.

You give him too much credit. He didn't know Lebron was coming back and that he would be in the position he is currently in. He was collecting welfare money from the NBA at the time. There are very few teams in the NBA that couldn't afford the luxury tax.

Ballmer is worth nearly 5 times what Gilbert is worth. Do you think he'd bat an eye at huge luxury tax?

How about the Lakers? They have a deal with Time-Warner that covers salaries and any luxury tax they could end up with and still have money left over.

You act like Gilbert is the only billionaire in the league and he's not even the richest. The only thing he accomplished was costing the Cavs and other teams more money than if he'd have kept his mouth shut.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Decision?

Last time I read he was not even meeting with any teams and had already indicated he was staying in Cleveland.

Is there actually someone out there who does not think he is returning to Cleveland with 100% certainty?

OD haha

 

[WiggyRuss]

You give him too much credit. He didn't know Lebron was coming back and that he would be in the position he is currently in. He was collecting welfare money from the NBA at the time. There are very few teams in the NBA that couldn't afford the luxury tax.

Ballmer is worth nearly 5 times what Gilbert is worth. Do you think he'd bat an eye at huge luxury tax?

How about the Lakers? They have a deal with Time-Warner that covers salaries and any luxury tax they could end up with and still have money left over.

You act like Gilbert is the only billionaire in the league and he's not even the richest. The only thing he accomplished was costing the Cavs and other teams more money than if he'd have kept his mouth shut.

I dont know if they would bat an eye. We have not seen if they will spend under this system. Paul Allen is by FAR the richest owner in the league and he is NOTORIOUSLY adverse to paying the luxury tax- even before it became more punitive.

All I can go by is what is happening- and I have seen Prokohorov pay big time tax- and Gilbert will be paying big time tax soon. Other than that I have no clue what will happen. Each team has its own limiting circumstances---while Gilbert without a doubt does not have the same TV Contract the Lakers enjoy- the Lakers are now owned by 6 individual family members- none of which are close to being a billionaire- and the Lakers pay 50M right off the top of their TV revenues in Revenue Sharing to poorer teams. Will this preclude them from major spending? I have no freaking clue. We shall see.

I can only go by what I have seen- and thus far- the Russian, and Gilbert seem to be the 2 who are going to dig really really deep into their pockets thus far under the new system. That cant be disputed. As to others? We shall see.

 

[Shanemansj13]

as a billionaire 4 times over Gilbert is in the unique position of being able to handle the burden of those punitive luxury tax penalties- at least for a year or two until the cap goes way way up.

it seems like everything is going smoothly- as it is anticipated Love will resign (I really hope they get him for more than just 1 guaranteed year- I'd give Love the opt out after 2 years- but not one)- they will ante up and resign TT- and match any offer if they must. I am thinking TT gets something like 4 years 60- or close to it- maybe 4 years 56....Shumpert will get something like 3 years between 21-27M...I kinda think they let Smith go and use the HAywood contract to find a wing to replace him- and then they use the tax-payer mid level (3.3M or whatever) to sign a backup guard like a Mo Williams,- and the rest vet minimum for guys at the end chasing a championship.

Something like the below will result

PG- Kyrie- 16M a year
SG- Shumpert- 7-9M a year
SF- LeBron- 22M
PF- Love- 19M
C- Mozgov- 5M

Bench
Thompson- 14M
Varejao- 10M
Mo Willimas like player with taxpayer midlevel- 4M
Haywood trade for wing/guard player making like 8M a year
Delly- 3M
Joe HArris- 1M
Sasha Kaun is supposedly ocming over- but i anticipate him being dealt in the HAywood deal
D. Christmas- PF- the guy they just drafted 36 overall- wouldnt be surprised if he was moved in haywood deal

thats a whole lotta money Gilbert is going to be paying this year.....CRAZY amounts- like possibly the most in league history---- next year the cap jumps to an estimated 90M so he will only have to pay the crazy tax 1 year.

That roster looks good but they need another shooter (maybe Jones will be back) or get another guy. They still need another wing guy behind Lebron and Shump. Hopefully the Haywood deal brings in a guy that a team is just trying to get off the books, like the deal with NY when they got Shump and JR.

 

[LAD]

what are you basing that on?

So let me get it- you are saying that- it can be assumed that because of the penalties put in place no owner is going to spend that kind of cash even if they are a billionaire?
You are saying- ti doesnt matter if you have 1 billion, or 4 billion, or 12 billion, or 20 billion or more- the owners are not going to spend because of the rules they instituted?

you are just patently wrong. Sorry. You just are.

I would imagine he's basing it on the actual rules under the CBA regarding the salary cap & it's exceptions. The fact of which owner is the richest has no bearing on these rules. They're the same for EVERY single owner. They're designed so that the "richest" owners, as you've categorized Gilbert, can't over pay and monopolize the league such as the Yankees do every season in baseball.

The point is there are limits, even for the richest teams out there. Trust me, when Gilbert finds himself being the newest member of the "repeat offender" club in regards to paying the luxury tax he will be singing a different tune. Especially if those funds aren't producing titles and only contributing revenue to the other teams that don't pay into it.

 

[trojanfan12]

I dont know if they would bat an eye. We have not seen if they will spend under this system. Paul Allen is by FAR the richest owner in the league and he is NOTORIOUSLY adverse to paying the luxury tax- even before it became more punitive.

All I can go by is what is happening- and I have seen Prokohorov pay big time tax- and Gilbert will be paying big time tax soon. Other than that I have no clue what will happen. Each team has its own limiting circumstances---while Gilbert without a doubt does not have the same TV Contract the Lakers enjoy- the Lakers are now owned by 6 individual family members- none of which are close to being a billionaire- and the Lakers pay 50M right off the top of their TV revenues in Revenue Sharing to poorer teams. Will this preclude them from major spending? I have no freaking clue. We shall see.

I can only go by what I have seen- and thus far- the Russian, and Gilbert seem to be the 2 who are going to dig really really deep into their pockets thus far under the new system. That cant be disputed. As to others? We shall see.

That's the point though. With virtually every team, it's not about how much they CAN spend on a tax, it's about how much they are WILLING to spend. As you point out, Allen is the richest of all, but never seems willing to spend beyond the cap.

As for the Lakers, the team is divided up among the Buss kids, but they don't have equal power within the organization. Jeanie has the ultimate power, she learned under Dr. Buss and has indicated that she is willing to pay the luxury taxes for a contender just like her Dad.

Some of you Cavs fans like to act as if Gilbert is the only owner willing/able to pay the tax or that he had some grand plan to eventually outspend everybody. That's just not the case.

 

[WiggyRuss]

That's the point though. With virtually every team, it's not about how much they CAN spend on a tax, it's about how much they are WILLING to spend. As you point out, Allen is the richest of all, but never seems willing to spend beyond the cap.

As for the Lakers, the team is divided up among the Buss kids, but they don't have equal power within the organization. Jeanie has the ultimate power, she learned under Dr. Buss and has indicated that she is willing to pay the luxury taxes for a contender just like her Dad.

Some of you Cavs fans like to act as if Gilbert is the only owner willing/able to pay the tax or that he had some grand plan to eventually outspend everybody. That's just not the case.

I am not acting like Gilbert is the only one. Like I said- the Russian has shown he will go into the tax in this new CBA. Other teams have not had the opportunity yet- as it hasnt made sense for the Lakers during a rebuilding (which also applies to the Cavs NOT paying the tax during the rebuilding- but some people just like to argue though)--- its actually BETTER to be under the tax while rebuilding because you can take other teams assets and rent out your cap room. I am in no way holding it against the Lakers they haven ot spent the last 2-3 years- if anyone says otherwise they are just clueless.

I am stating that it is possible Gilbert will be on the hook for the most expensive team in the history of North American pro sports this coming year-(if not close to) and I think he is happy to write the check if it will mean the possibility of a title/titles.

and getting Love was all about winning at the highest level. Sure- Tristan was the 4th overall pick- a very nice talent and a great kid. But there is a difference between him and one of the top (however you rank him somehwere between 8th and 15th) best player in basketball in Love.

 

[trojanfan12]

what are you basing that on?

So let me get it- you are saying that- it can be assumed that because of the penalties put in place no owner is going to spend that kind of cash even if they are a billionaire?
You are saying- ti doesnt matter if you have 1 billion, or 4 billion, or 12 billion, or 20 billion or more- the owners are not going to spend because of the rules they instituted?

you are just patently wrong. Sorry. You just are.

Actually, he's spot on. Under the CBA, there is only so much a team can spend on a given player (i.e. the Cavs being able to offer Love more money than any other team) and there is only so much that they can spend on cumulative salaries for the team.

In short, an owner can be worth $500 billion and he still has the same CBA limits as every other owner.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Actually, he's spot on. Under the CBA, there is only so much a team can spend on a given player (i.e. the Cavs being able to offer Love more money than any other team) and there is only so much that they can spend on cumulative salaries for the team.

In short, an owner can be worth $500 billion and he still has the same CBA limits as every other owner.

if the point you were trying to make is "the rules are the same for everyone" than YAH lol. The point I was trying to make is that the rules are the same for everyone AND Gilbert has shown the willingness to say EFF the Tax- im putting the best possible team I can together REGARDLESS of price.

So far- only Gilbert and the Russian have shown that willingness. I can only go by what has happened.

 

[trojanfan12]

I am not acting like Gilbert is the only one. Like I said- the Russian has shown he will go into the tax in this new CBA. Other teams have not had the opportunity yet- as it hasnt made sense for the Lakers during a rebuilding (which also applies to the Cavs NOT paying the tax during the rebuilding- but some people just like to argue though)--- its actually BETTER to be under the tax while rebuilding because you can take other teams assets and rent out your cap room. I am in no way holding it against the Lakers they haven ot spent the last 2-3 years- if anyone says otherwise they are just clueless.

I am stating that it is possible Gilbert will be on the hook for the most expensive team in the history of North American pro sports this coming year-(if not close to) and I think he is happy to write the check if it will mean the possibility of a title/titles.

and getting Love was all about winning at the highest level. Sure- Tristan was the 4th overall pick- a very nice talent and a great kid. But there is a difference between him and one of the top (however you rank him somehwere between 8th and 15th) best player in basketball in Love.

Agree with every word in this post. There's a first.

I still think Gilbert unnecessarily cost himself money, but at the time he was trying to protect what he had. As much as I like to crack on him for it, he was doing what was best for his team at the time. Now, circumstances have changed and he's doing what is best for the Cavs under their current circumstances.

It makes him look hypocritical based on his stance when the CBA was constructed, but he's doing what pretty much any other owner would do. It's amazing how far the pendulum swung in just one off-season.

 

[LAD]

That's the point though. With virtually every team, it's not about how much they CAN spend on a tax, it's about how much they are WILLING to spend. As you point out, Allen is the richest of all, but never seems willing to spend beyond the cap.

As for the Lakers, the team is divided up among the Buss kids, but they don't have equal power within the organization. Jeanie has the ultimate power, she learned under Dr. Buss and has indicated that she is willing to pay the luxury taxes for a contender just like her Dad.

Some of you Cavs fans like to act as if Gilbert is the only owner willing/able to pay the tax or that he had some grand plan to eventually outspend everybody. That's just not the case.

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that the Lakers franchise has been successful for the majority of it's existence which is why they've continued to spend well into the luxury tax. Only at that point does it seem worth doing.

But when you have a team like the Knicks for example, who've paid something like $205 million in tax bills that only produced a hand-full of playoff series over the past decade. Hardly worth the money imo. The Lakers on the other hand can continue to afford the risk because of the Time-Warner TV deal that, as mentioned before, pays for the teams' salaries and associated expenses.

The smart thing under this new CBA is the cut-back approach. A lot of teams have recognized they need to do it, including the Lakers. There are only a few that don't understand it and my thought is it's because they're not used to paying the penalties and don't realize how fast it adds up season after season.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think what a lot of people don't realize is that the Lakers franchise has been successful for the majority of it's existence which is why they've continued to spend well into the luxury tax. Only at that point does it seem worth doing.

But when you have a team like the Knicks for example, who've paid something like $205 million in tax bills that only produced a hand-full of playoff series over the past decade. Hardly worth the money imo. The Lakers on the other hand can continue to afford the risk because of the Time-Warner TV deal that, as mentioned before, pays for the teams' salaries and associated expenses.

The smart thing under this new CBA is the cut-back approach. A lot of teams have recognized they need to do it, including the Lakers. There are only a few that don't understand it and my thought is it's because they're not used to paying the penalties and don't realize how fast it adds up season after season.

I agree. The Lakers stance on luxury tax has never changed. They have always been willing to pay any necessary tax for a contender. If memory serves, the fact that they have been under the cap for the past couple of seasons keeps them out of repeat offender status for when they do start paying the tax again in a couple of years.

I think the Knicks tried to do what the Lakers have done (pay the tax for a contending team), but they didn't do a very good job of picking talent. They ended up with an expensive hodgepodge of talented players who couldn't play together.