So I guess we are drafting Brandon Scherff

[Darrell Green Fan]

I think it's fair to say that Scherff is a safer pick then many of the OLBs and that is factoring in to Shark's over rating the player. OL drafted high have a lower bust rate and I totally agree he doesn't make it out of the top 10. But again to me that's drafting scared to make a mistake and I hope my team isn't thinking that way.

Since Shark hasn't answered the question after numerous requests I'll give my take on Cooper at 5 for what it's worth. At first I was not in favor, probably short sited thinking as WR is one of the few strengths on this team. But the cap numbers for the 3 starters are off the hook next year and not everyone will be back. So as much as I"d like a pass rusher I'd fine with Cooper.

 

[Sharkinva]

I think it's fair to say that Scherff is a safer pick then many of the OLBs and that is factoring in to Shark's over rating the player. OL drafted high have a lower bust rate and I totally agree he doesn't make it out of the top 10. But again to me that's drafting scared to make a mistake and I hope my team isn't thinking that way.

Since Shark hasn't answered the question after numerous requests I'll give my take on Cooper at 5 for what it's worth. At first I was not in favor, probably short sited thinking as WR is one of the few strengths on this team. But the cap numbers for the 3 starters are off the hook next year and not everyone will be back. So as much as I"d like a pass rusher I'd fine with Cooper.

DGF,

What part of I think Cooper is one of the top five players and thus would be worth of the #5 pick is not answering the question??

Would he be my pick, considering that WR is also considered deep in this draft ( when it is not though) and that we would essentially be drafting a 3rd stringer with the #5, some times need does get to factor into the pick. So I would be fine with them taking Cooper more so than Fowler.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

DGF,

What part of I think Cooper is one of the top five players and thus would be worth of the #5 pick is not answering the question??

Would he be my pick, considering that WR is also considered deep in this draft ( when it is not though) and that we would essentially be drafting a 3rd stringer with the #5, some times need does get to factor into the pick. So I would be fine with them taking Cooper more so than Fowler.

If I missed that comment of yours I apologize. I picked up the the thread 2 pages back and saw where Dean asked you repeatedly and very directly what you thought of Cooper at 5. The only reply of yours I saw on topic was this opinion that he will be a 3rd stringer which of course is why you have been pimping Scherff so hard.

But again this is the exact same impatient, short sighted approach that lead Vinny to pass over better players to draft Malcolm Kelly and Devon Thomas because the team's immediate need was a big WR. I am not claiming Scherff will bust like those guys, I agree he will be a solid pro. We're talking about the approach to the draft. The smart teams take the highest rated player with an eye towards the future. When you have over $20 million tied up in WRs going into 2016 if you played it smart a year ago now you may have options. You on the other hand have the Danny/Vinny/Gibbs quick fix approach that has failed for 20 years.

 

[sublime4eva]

All I know is I'll trust what McCloughan does over you arm chair GM'S lol

 

[deanpet21]

Fowler, Cooper, and Waynes are all better players. You can make the argument that Peat could be taken over Scherff b/c he is the better OT. I would laugh my ass off if he falls out of the top 10. Teams from 6-10 might want tackles. So Peat, Flowers, and Collins could be chosen over him. I do think he will go at #9 to the Giants b/c of Coughlin. He would value his versatility being a huge asset.


Plus with gregory’s failed drug test that should take him out of the top 10. So this is a big chance for Scherff to get into the top 10. If he sill can’t do it then there is major concern.

 

[Sharkinva]

If I missed that comment of yours I apologize. I picked up the the thread 2 pages back and saw where Dean asked you repeatedly and very directly what you thought of Cooper at 5. The only reply of yours I saw on topic was this opinion that he will be a 3rd stringer which of course is why you have been pimping Scherff so hard.

But again this is the exact same impatient, short sighted approach that lead Vinny to pass over better players to draft Malcolm Kelly and Devon Thomas because the team's immediate need was a big WR. I am not claiming Scherff will bust like those guys, I agree he will be a solid pro. We're talking about the approach to the draft. The smart teams take the highest rated player with an eye towards the future. When you have over $20 million tied up in WRs going into 2016 if you played it smart a year ago now you may have options. You on the other hand have the Danny/Vinny/Gibbs quick fix approach that has failed for 20 years.

OK simple question... how would taking Scherff not be with an eye towards the future?? I think its fairly obvious to all that even if he ONLY becomes a solid to above average starter at RG for say the next six years... that is a serious nod towards not only the present but also the FUTURE of this team as a whole. Or would you disagree??

Again I think the major hangup I am seeing is.. well he isnt a game changer, or he might only be a guard at the pro level.

All IM saying is at some point ACTUAL NEED has got to come into the equation. If you scratch the QBs, the RB because it would bea luxury pick, and the pass rushers because all have flags enough that would in most drafts make them second rounders... you come down to Scherff and Cooper. Admittedly the Cooper pick might look better on May 1st, but come September 30th when Chris Chester is doing his best matador movement and Cooper has 3 catches for 35 yards.... you will all start to second guess the wisdom of taking a pass catcher when we still cant pass block in any way shape or form from the right side of the line.

 

[Sharkinva]

Fowler, Cooper, and Waynes are all better players. You can make the argument that Peat could be taken over Scherff b/c he is the better OT. I would laugh my ass off if he falls out of the top 10. Teams from 6-10 might want tackles. So Peat, Flowers, and Collins could be chosen over him. I do think he will go at #9 to the Giants b/c of Coughlin. He would value his versatility being a huge asset.


Plus with gregory’s failed drug test that should take him out of the top 10. So this is a big chance for Scherff to get into the top 10. If he sill can’t do it then there is major concern.

Dean.. Sorry dude Im calling BUllshit on this one. Scherff is considered hands down the best O-lineman and best OT in this draft. Just because you ant another pass rusher which is basically ALL you have pushed for does not play into the concept that that Scherff isnt worthy of a top ten pick..

Again I will point out, you thought Morgan Moses was worth a second rounder... Apparently we got ripped off giving up a third rounder for this bum.

 

[deanpet21]

How can the best OT in the draft be bad at pass blocking? Why would the best OT in the draft be forced to move to guard in the pros? Doesn't make sense to me Shark.

 

[Sharkinva]

How can the best OT in the draft be bad at pass blocking? Why would the best OT in the draft be forced to move to guard in the pros? Doesn't make sense to me Shark.

I dont know.. .explain to me why they though Trent Williams would have been best served as a RT??

And no one has said he is BAD at pass blocking, it has been said he needs to improve. There is a difference. You have been harping on that because you want them to take anything BUT an O-lineman with the fifth pick. I get it.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

OK simple question... how would taking Scherff not be with an eye towards the future?? I think its fairly obvious to all that even if he ONLY becomes a solid to above average starter at RG for say the next six years... that is a serious nod towards not only the present but also the FUTURE of this team as a whole. Or would you disagree??

Again I think the major hangup I am seeing is.. well he isnt a game changer, or he might only be a guard at the pro level.

All IM saying is at some point ACTUAL NEED has got to come into the equation. If you scratch the QBs, the RB because it would bea luxury pick, and the pass rushers because all have flags enough that would in most drafts make them second rounders... you come down to Scherff and Cooper. Admittedly the Cooper pick might look better on May 1st, but come September 30th when Chris Chester is doing his best matador movement and Cooper has 3 catches for 35 yards.... you will all start to second guess the wisdom of taking a pass catcher when we still cant pass block in any way shape or form from the right side of the line.

Again I am working on the premise that Scherff is not rated as high as several other players because that is pretty much the universal opinion. I am also looking at history and for 50 years the NFL has proven you can find similar talent later in the draft so spending the 5th overall pick on a guard is not smart and will damage your roster down the road. Again this is not a Steve Hutchinson type of prospect, not even close.

You say you have him as a top 5 player regardless of need. Gotta be honest, I think need is still playing a part in your ranking of Scherff. If you truly believe that he is in your top 5 then we're done here, again I'll question your assessment but not the idea of taking your 5th rated player at 5.

 

[Sharkinva]

Again I am working on the premise that Scherff is not rated as high as several other players because that is pretty much the universal opinion. I am also looking at history and for 50 years the NFL has proven you can find similar talent later in the draft so spending the 5th overall pick on a guard is not smart and will damage your roster down the road. Again this is not a Steve Hutchinson type of prospect, not even close.

You say you have him as a top 5 player regardless of need. Gotta be honest, I think need is still playing a part in your ranking of Scherff. If you truly believe that he is in your top 5 then we're done here, again I'll question your assessment but not the idea of taking your 5th rated player at 5.

I guess we are done. But i will say this. I think you guys seriously UNDER rate him based on the fact that we have the fifth pick. And most of you have basically been saying the fifth pick must be used on a play maker. As far as him being a guard, he is listed as a tackle. And before you start with the best position crap, most draft sights had Trent Williams as some one who would be best fitted as a RT. And I have him rated as a top five player because to me top five doesnt mean most play making ability, it means least likely to FAIL. You take some one in the top five and it has got to be a player you can build around and start from day one. Not a pass rusher who is still learning to be a pass rusher. Or a pass rusher who is one dimensional. Or an OLB who can rush the pass but is a liability in the run game.

I dont discount the two WR, but I think you are full of it when you say that need should never factor into picking players, especially this high.

 

[deanpet21]

Williams and Okung were rated as the top two OT's in that draft. Both were LT's. Scherff is bad at pass blocking b/c if he was average he would of been hyped as the best OT prospect ever b/c of his versatility. Exactly he is not even the player Hutchinson was coming out of college This is why I think he falls in the draft b/c of pass protection problems and no one has taken a guard in the top 10 in NFL history.

He is no way the 5th best overall player in this draft. If the Skins really wanted a RT, then we should just take Peat at #5. A far better OT than Scherff. I think Humphries and Clemmings(the Pitt guy) will be there in the 2nd round. Plus you guys have to remember if a OLineman is selected someone has to get cut. If its OT then Moses or Compton is going to be cut and I cant see that right now. If its a OG then Chester, Long or Lenvou is going to have to be cut and I cant see that either. IF they were down on Chester he would of already been out of here.

 

[Sharkinva]

Williams and Okung were rated as the top two OT's in that draft. Both were LT's. Scherff is bad at pass blocking b/c if he was average he would of been hyped as the best OT prospect ever b/c of his versatility. Exactly he is not even the player Hutchinson was coming out of college This is why I think he falls in the draft b/c of pass protection problems and no one has taken a guard in the top 10 in NFL history.

He is no way the 5th best overall player in this draft. If the Skins really wanted a RT, then we should just take Peat at #5. A far better OT than Scherff. I think Humphries and Clemmings(the Pitt guy) will be there in the 2nd round. Plus you guys have to remember if a OLineman is selected someone has to get cut. If its OT then Moses or Compton is going to be cut and I cant see that right now. If its a OG then Chester, Long or Lenvou is going to have to be cut and I cant see that either. IF they were down on Chester he would of already been out of here.

Dean, you dont cut Chester with Morgan the broke dick still on the mend. That forces your hand in the draft and you almost HAVE to take an O-lineman. Personally i would be fine with Moses being cut because i thought he was a bum that we never should have drafted in the first place. Secondly show me where you are reading that Scherff cant pass block. You are living off of it, so show it.

I have posted NUMEROUS down ticks on your man crush pass rushers. So come one, show me where he cant pass block. The ONLY reason people are saying he might be better suited to play guard is because of his arm lengtth.

 

[deanpet21]

They are not cutting a third round pick after one injured year of play. Cmon Shark that is crazy. I heard Kiper and Mcshay on a draft podcast say that he has pass protection issues which is why he might go to guard. Arm length has nothing to do with it. They said his footwork was slow for an NFL OT. Mayock said t he same thing. The reason why he is a top prospect is b/c of his versality. He plays every position on the oline. Teams love that. He might not be a dominant tackle but he can dominate at outer positions. That is why teams like him. I think Riley Reiff has shorter arms than him and he plays OT for the Lions. Didn't he get drafted in the 20's. Same with Bulaga he got drafted in the 20's.

 

[Sharkinva]

Brandon Scherff, OT, Iowa, NFL Draft - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com

Brandon Scherff Draft Profile NFL.com

Brandon Scherff | Draft Breakdown

WalterFootball.com: 2015 NFL Draft Scouting Report: Brandon Scherff

There you go Dean... I did the work for you... 4 rather well respected sights. Show me where one says he cant pass block. Admitted all say he will need to improve at the next level. But aside from Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck and JHC, who was the last rookie that didnt need to improve at some primary skill of their position??

 

[Sharkinva]

I dont think they should cut Moses because he was injured... I think he should be cut because quite frankly he sucks.

 

[deanpet21]

I don't care what the sites say. When people say "he has to move to guard" that should be a red flag.

 

[deanpet21]

The skins could surprise everyone and take Cooper and Auaji(Rb Boise st) as there first two picks.

 

[Sharkinva]

I don't care what the sites say. When people say "he has to move to guard" that should be a red flag.

So then you agree we should not have drafted Williams at #4?? And no one has said he has to move to guard. They have said he might be better suited at guard.

And i will ask you honestly.. .you really think Chris Chester should still be on roster. Or are you just pimping him because you are hoping we take a playmaker at #5??

Like I siad, the last thing this teams is another guy doing sack dances in a 45-14 blow out. And thats what drafting ANY of these pass rushers equates to at #5.

 

[deanpet21]

I wanted Williams in the draft b/c he is an OT. I liked him better b/c he was the better PASS blocker. I agree with you that Chester sucks. But the Skins dont agree with us and that is who is going to make the draft picks.