So I guess we are drafting Brandon Scherff

[Sharkinva]

We are using extreme examples. Every Redskins fan understand what the Hogs meant to our history. But this prospect is not Russ Grimm, Larry Allen or Steve Hutchison. He is projected to be a damn good starting guard and God knows we need plenty of them. But let's not assume a guy switching positions who has had pass blocking issues at tackle is the next Larry Allen.

Again there is a reason guards are never taken with the 5th overall pick and it's very simple: you can find similar value later in the draft. The draft is about maximizing value. And I'm sorry, taking the safe pick because you are afraid to miss is a chicken shit way to draft. It's playing scared.

If it were that easy, we wouldnt even be having this discussion. After all even a blind squirrel finds a nut occasionally. And we have dug through alot of trash without a single hit on our o-line outside of Williams in the last what... six or seven years??

And taking the pass rusher is playing for sexy over substance simply because the COMMON thinking has been you dont take anything other than a left tackle in the top ten of the draft as far as O line is concerned.

 

[Skin'EmAll]

If there's one thing we can learn from our enemy, build an o-line. We laughed when Dallas reached for a CENTER.
Looks like that move paid off. Honestly Tom Brady wouldn't survive back there with the line we are putting on the field. An OLB is not going to help us convert a 3rd down. And realistically, how much better can Ray or Fowler be than Orakpo as rookies? IF we make the mistake of drafting Gregory, expect him to relapse and get suspended for weed as a rookie or the following year.

At this point a trade seems like the best way to max out value. Maybe we get 2 1st rounders and still land a OT and OLB (maybe Dupree)

 

[redskinsfan]

how do you know he isnt ? you or i have no idea of what he will be or wont be

now if we draft fowler or beasley or some other pass rusher i wont get mad

what i am saying is scherf is a top 9 rated player and he plays a position that we need . as is fowler or beasley . and we have murphy

You have to keep in mind a pretty important thing: Scherff may be rated at #9, but Fowler is a legit Top 5 pick. If you're giving up on someone like Fowler to take Scherff, the value jump between #9 and into the Top 5 is significant. That's the what you'll be giving up in terms of value when reaching for a player like that. If you're going to do that, you'd better make sure your crystal ball shows that Scherff is the next Larry Allen.

 

[skinsdad62]

You have to keep in mind a pretty important thing: Scherff may be rated at #9, but Fowler is a legit Top 5 pick. If you're giving up on someone like Fowler to take Scherff, the value jump between #9 and into the Top 5 is significant. That's the what you'll be giving up in terms of value when reaching for a player like that. If you're going to do that, you'd better make sure your crystal ball shows that Scherff is the next Larry Allen.

i dont consider grabbing a guy 4 spots "ahead" as reaching

 

[deanpet21]

Maybe the Giants at #9. Can I revise the bet to the top 8? lol

 

[deanpet21]

Here is what I like at #5. Williams, Fowler, Beasley, Waynes, and Cooper. In that order.

 

[Sharkinva]

You have to keep in mind a pretty important thing: Scherff may be rated at #9, but Fowler is a legit Top 5 pick. If you're giving up on someone like Fowler to take Scherff, the value jump between #9 and into the Top 5 is significant. That's the what you'll be giving up in terms of value when reaching for a player like that. If you're going to do that, you'd better make sure your crystal ball shows that Scherff is the next Larry Allen.

According to who?? I have seen him in just as many top five spots as I have slip[ping OUT of the top ten. And you also must remember, most of these MOCK drafts base their thinking off of the same idea as some around here are espousing. Fowler is a top five lock and destined to the Redskins because he is a "Game Changer" .

 

[redskinsfan]

i dont consider grabbing a guy 4 spots "ahead" as reaching

Let's put this in perspective: a jump from 9 to 5 equals a second round pick on the draft value chart. In view of that, if you're passing up someone's that's fifth on the BPA Board for someone at nine, you're giving up second rounder in terms of value. If you're doing that, you'd better be awfully sure of your selection.

 

[redskinsfan]

According to who?? I have seen him in just as many top five spots as I have slip[ping OUT of the top ten. And you also must remember, most of these MOCK drafts base their thinking off of the same idea as some around here are espousing. Fowler is a top five lock and destined to the Redskins because he is a "Game Changer" .

I've seen a lot early mocks and draft boards listing Scherff as an OT and for that reason as a top five pick. However, as pundits -- and I use that term loosely -- started to opine that his true value was at guard due to issues with his pass pro, he began slipping. For reasons that we've discussed ad nauseum, you can't take a guard that high. Even if he was a good tackle prospect, query whether he'd be worth taking that high as a right tackle.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Scherff. But I like him as a guard and, for that reason, think he'd be worth taking if we traded down.

 

[Sharkinva]

Let's put this in perspective: a jump from 9 to 5 equals a second round pick on the draft value chart. In view of that, if you're passing up someone's that's fifth on the BPA Board for someone at nine, you're giving up second rounder in terms of value. If you're doing that, you'd better be awfully sure of your selection.

On the flip side, that second rounder could end up being Jarvis Jenkins. So you end up half assing it on fixing the line, and the best you got out of it was a three year starter that was average.

 

[Sharkinva]

I've seen a lot early mocks and draft boards listing Scherff as an OT and for that reason as a top five pick. However, as pundits -- and I use that term loosely -- started to opine that his true value was at guard due to issues with his pass pro, he began slipping. For reasons that we've discussed ad nauseum, you can't take a guard that high. Even if he was a good tackle prospect, query whether he'd be worth taking that high as a right tackle.

Don't get me wrong, I really like Scherff. But I like him as a guard and, for that reason, think he'd be worth taking if we traded down.

Except he wont be there if we trade down, or do you really think an extra 3rd rounder is worth missing out on the best O-lineman in the draft??

 

[redskinsfan]

On the flip side, that second rounder could end up being Jarvis Jenkins. So you end up half assing it on fixing the line, and the best you got out of it was a three year starter that was average.

But it could be Jon Jansen. Or DeSean Jackson . . . Jordy Nelson . . . Jamaal Charles . . . Yes, the second rounder could be a bust. But it could be a gamechanging pick too. The point isn't about fretting that it could flop, but the fact that it provides us an opportunity to cash in with an extra pick. And with McCloughan doing the drafting, the chance it will pan out is much higher than in past years.

 

[redskinsfan]

Except he wont be there if we trade down, or do you really think an extra 3rd rounder is worth missing out on the best O-lineman in the draft??

Says who? That depends on how far we trade down. Scherff has been projected to go as far down as 15. Let's say we fleece the Browns to give us their #12 and #19 for our #5. Scherff may be available at #12. If he's not, we've got options there. For instance, we could take Landon Collins. Or Bud Dupree would probably be there. Then, at #19, we take someone a RT like Clemmings or Flowers. And with our second round pick, we get Laken Tomlinson.

 

[Sharkinva]

But it could be Jon Jansen. Or DeSean Jackson . . . Jordy Nelson . . . Jamaal Charles . . . Yes, the second rounder could be a bust. But it could be a gamechanging pick too. The point isn't about fretting that it could flop, but the fact that it provides us an opportunity to cash in with an extra pick. And with McCloughan doing the drafting, the chance it will pan out is much higher than in past years.

Simple question dude. If you were fairly certain he would do for us what Zack Martin has done for the Cowboys line... would you pass that up for an extra pick?? Right now this kid is being projected as a bigger stronger Zack Martin.. and you dont think thats worth giving up the possible extra pick?? You would sooner take the next O-lineman so we could say, well we got an extra pick out of it??

 

[redskinsfan]

Simple question dude. If you were fairly certain he would do for us what Zack Martin has done for the Cowboys line... would you pass that up for an extra pick?? Right now this kid is being projected as a bigger stronger Zack Martin.. and you dont think thats worth giving up the possible extra pick?? You would sooner take the next O-lineman so we could say, well we got an extra pick out of it??

That's a big if. However, let's assume he'd be another Zack Martin. That's still too high to take him at #5.

 

[Sharkinva]

Says who? That depends on how far we trade down. Scherff has been projected to go as far down as 15. Let's say we fleece the Browns to give us their #12 and #19 for our #5. Scherff may be available at #12. If he's not, we've got options there. For instance, we could take Landon Collins. Or Bud Dupree would probably be there. Then, at #19, we take someone a RT like Clemmings or Flowers. And with our second round pick, we get Laken Tomlinson.

IM going to offer you the same offer i gave Dean... $50 says Scherff doesnt make it past #10. And he is hands down the best O-lineman in this draft. So what we might get from the Browns IF we are able to fleece them doesnt excite me nearly as much as actually addressing the line. Sure there are players that COULD start for us later in the draft. But could start, and hands down SHOULD start from the moment we pick them.... As i have said, you dont pass on a sure thing just to say well we had more chances. Thats like taking the tax refund and buying scratch off tickets in my book.

 

[Sharkinva]

That's a big if. However, let's assume he'd be another Zack Martin. That's still too high to take him at #5.

Wait a minute.. #5 is too high to take an all pro player now?? So remind me what the cut off for a possible all pro is?? 10?? 20?? 2nd round?? Short of Injury there are only 2 players that have even been hinted at as a sure thing.. Willaims and Scherff. And fuck if I would trade away from either of them. Now Williams likely wont be there.. .Scherff might not actually be there. But if he is, and we trade away to get a lesser version... come one man.

 

[redskinsfan]

IM going to offer you the same offer i gave Dean... $50 says Scherff doesnt make it past #10. And he is hands down the best O-lineman in this draft. So what we might get from the Browns IF we are able to fleece them doesnt excite me nearly as much as actually addressing the line. Sure there are players that COULD start for us later in the draft. But could start, and hands down SHOULD start from the moment we pick them.... As i have said, you dont pass on a sure thing just to say well we had more chances. Thats like taking the tax refund and buying scratch off tickets in my book.

I'm not taking that bet because the Falcons might take him at #8 or Giants might take him at #9. What you're not getting is the fact that we can still address the line by trading down. Will we get the primetime OG talent like Scherff? Maybe not. But we'll get, at the very least, a solid OG, which is darn good enough in this league.

 

[redskinsfan]

Wait a minute.. #5 is too high to take an all pro player now?? So remind me what the cut off for a possible all pro is?? 10?? 20?? 2nd round?? Short of Injury there are only 2 players that have even been hinted at as a sure thing.. Willaims and Scherff. And fuck if I would trade away from either of them. Now Williams likely wont be there.. .Scherff might not actually be there. But if he is, and we trade away to get a lesser version... come one man.

Huh? When did we ever agree that Scherff is an All-Pro player?

 

[Sharkinva]

I'm not taking that bet because the Falcons might take him at #8 or Giants might take him at #9. What you're not getting is the fact that we can still address the line by trading down. Will we get the primetime OG talent like Scherff? Maybe not. But we'll get, at the very least, a solid OG, which is darn good enough in this league.

Im getting that we can address the line by trading down. What you arent getting is, why take a lesser talent just to say you took more players?? This kid is the best O-lineman in this draft. You would be hard pressed to find many who would disagree. The only real points I have heard for Not taking him at #5 is

1. You never take a guard that high.
2. Y have to get a game changer with a pick that high
3. We could trade down and MIGHT get a guy just as capable while also having more picks.


Sorry bro.. But i think all three are cop outs for simply saying we need to do something more exciting with a top five pick and a Guard is simply too boring.

IF the worst we get is a kid who is considered a bigger stronger version of Zack Martin, and it cost us a top five pick... I say we got a bargain.