Game Thread: Kill Bills vol. 1

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

In Barth's defense, he did kick a 50 yarder.

On a warm day with a breeze at his back and he barely cleared the crossbar. I don't know about you but there is no way he hits a 45 yard FG on a cold day in Foxborough. Heck maybe not even a 40 yarder. Not arguing but it's not ideal.

 

[Duffman]

I've been a big critic of Del Rio this year but in his defense the Offense doesn't seem to give him much to work with late in games. How many times did we go 3 and out yesterday after the D made a big stop because we decided to run it 3 straight times even though Buffalo had 8-9 men in the box.

As I criticized them yesterday the Offense seemed to be content with running 3 straight times if it took 2 minutes off the clock and that's been a problem. Yesterday was another showing the Offense basically staying home in the 2nd half and we've seen that quite a lot this year especially at home.

When the defense is constantly making big play after play only for the Offense to practically give up on scoring that takes some of the steam out of that defense because the game is all up to them.

Look at the other 2 big games that's happened to us this year, the Colts we only scored 7 in the 2nd half and allowed 17 and against KC at home we scored 3 and allowed 7. And in both gamers the Defense had to make a stop on the opponents game tying drive because the Offense stalled out.

 

[randymon]

Well said. I argued with a guy that sits behind me and said exactly what you said. In this era of passing you don't need to throw the ball 20 yards down field to score quickly. With these spread offenses you just need to hit a couple of short ones and you will eventually get a 20+ pass play or a bunch of 10-15 yard plays when the D-Backs are 20 yards down field. I would much rather be aggressive and take my chances rather than sit back. I would think JDR has seen enough of that this season.

The Broncos are also develpoing a pattern of letting teams get back into the game late when they had opportunities to put the opposing teams away.

I have never and will not ever be in favor of the prevent " my ass " defense. It never has EVER worked for shit. No DC who knows anything about the success rate of implementing that ridiculous strategy would do so. Can't believe anyone would argue in favor of it..

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I've been a big critic of Del Rio this year but in his defense the Offense doesn't seem to give him much to work with late in games. How many times did we go 3 and out yesterday after the D made a big stop because we decided to run it 3 straight times even though Buffalo had 8-9 men in the box.

As I criticized them yesterday the Offense seemed to be content with running 3 straight times if it took 2 minutes off the clock and that's been a problem. Yesterday was another showing the Offense basically staying home in the 2nd half and we've seen that quite a lot this year especially at home.

When the defense is constantly making big play after play only for the Offense to practically give up on scoring that takes some of the steam out of that defense because the game is all up to them.

That's a good point too Duffman. Certainly not good complementary football from the offense yesterday.

Looking at it from a positive standpoint, Manning was far from his best as was the rest of the offense and we still beat a pretty good team.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

I have never and will not ever be in favor of the prevent " my ass " defense. It never has EVER worked for shit. No DC who knows anything about the success rate of implementing that ridiculous strategy would do so. Can't believe anyone would argue in favor of it..

Yeah, he kept saying bend don't break baby. Him and I have argued about that all season. I keep asking how many teams won the SB with a bend don't break D? I'm also dissappointed because we have the talent to be a dominate D. Could you imagine what a guy like Rex Ryan with his aggressive mindset would do with this squad? I know he's a 3-4 guy but just talking about his attitude.

 

[WalkerBoh]

On a warm day with a breeze at his back and he barely cleared the crossbar. I don't know about you but there is no way he hits a 45 yard FG on a cold day in Foxborough. Heck maybe not even a 40 yarder. Not arguing but it's not ideal.

True, but he's also coming off an achilles rupture. He hasn't kicked much until now, so I'm sure he's shaking off some rust still. The accuracy is more important now anyway. He may still get back some more length with more practice.

 

[Broncos6482]

I have never and will not ever be in favor of the prevent " my ass " defense. It never has EVER worked for shit. No DC who knows anything about the success rate of implementing that ridiculous strategy would do so. Can't believe anyone would argue in favor of it..

You're right. It certainly failed against Buffalo. Can't believe we lost that game! And it failed against the Jets, too! And the Dolphins! That's 3 losses we shouldn't have all thanks to the prevent defense!:rollseyes:

 

[randymon]

You're right. It certainly failed against Buffalo. Can't believe we lost that game! And it failed against the Jets, too! And the Dolphins! That's 3 losses we shouldn't have all thanks to the prevent defense!:rollseyes:[/QUOTE

Denver had comfortable leads in those games and the prevent D allowed those teams to get back in the game. What is really the point though is when a team has a 8 pt or less lead and they go to prevent, there is more chance for failure than just playing the D that hepled you have that lead. More so than not, it fails IMO:rollseyes:

 

[Broncos6482]

You're right. It certainly failed against Buffalo. Can't believe we lost that game! And it failed against the Jets, too! And the Dolphins! That's 3 losses we shouldn't have all thanks to the prevent defense!:rollseyes:[/QUOTE

Denver had comfortable leads in those games and the prevent D allowed those teams to get back in the game. What is really the point though is when a team has a 8 pt or less lead and they go to prevent, there is more chance for failure than just playing the D that hepled you have that lead. More so than not, it fails IMO:rollseyes:

The point of the prevent defense is to keep the other team from scoring quickly. It trades yards for time off the clock. The hope is that the d will make the stop once the other team gets to the red zone, but even if they don't, the idea is that they've had to burn so much time you win anyway even if they score. That's why you'll see teams implement it when they have a multiple score lead.

Ultimately, it's about winning the game. And since the Broncos haven't lost a single game this season in which they've used a prevent defense, I'd say it's worked as intended.

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

True, but he's also coming off an achilles rupture. He hasn't kicked much until now, so I'm sure he's shaking off some rust still. The accuracy is more important now anyway. He may still get back some more length with more practice.

WB, it doesn't matter why he can't kick deep, just that he can't. I'm ok with our kicking situation partly because we have McManus and while he's been inconsistent it at least gives us an option for a long FG if needed.

 

[Broncos6482]

WB, it doesn't matter why he can't kick deep, just that he can't. I'm ok with our kicking situation partly because we have McManus and while he's been inconsistent it at least gives us an option for a long FG if needed.

 

[randymon]

The point of the prevent defense is to keep the other team from scoring quickly. It trades yards for time off the clock. The hope is that the d will make the stop once the other team gets to the red zone, but even if they don't, the idea is that they've had to burn so much time you win anyway even if they score. That's why you'll see teams implement it when they have a multiple score lead.

Ultimately, it's about winning the game. And since the Broncos haven't lost a single game this season in which they've used a prevent defense, I'd say it's worked as intended.

In SB xxxII coach Mike Shanahan "famously" instructed his DC to keep playing same D as the Green Bay Packers attempted to drive down field in final 2 mins. The D held and Denver won.

Denver " famously" botched the prevent D in the 2012 AFC Div Rd vs Ravens when with 40 secs left....bla,bla.bla. We all remember how that went.

The prevent D is rarely used on consecutive downs or with significant time left. When the defense concedes short plays, an offense that can practice "clock managment" effectively can SCORE without executing the long pass that the Defense seeks to prevent.

Legendary coach John Madden once said..." All a prevent D does is prevent you from winning".

 

[HOF-ELWAY-7]

The point of the prevent defense is to keep the other team from scoring quickly. It trades yards for time off the clock. The hope is that the d will make the stop once the other team gets to the red zone, but even if they don't, the idea is that they've had to burn so much time you win anyway even if they score. That's why you'll see teams implement it when they have a multiple score lead.

Ultimately, it's about winning the game. And since the Broncos haven't lost a single game this season in which they've used a prevent defense, I'd say it's worked as intended.

Yup, it has worked until now but I'm concerned if we run into a capable QB and play that way.... I have seen a lot of teams blow games with the bend don't break / prevent D. And you're only partially right, the object is to run time but also to keep them out of the end zone and tighten up the closer you get to the endzone. That hasn't happened in some games and we have had to recover onside kicks late in games with two score leads before the opposing teams last drives. My point is they have better talent than just to play back and let teams go down the field and score. If you want to be a dominate defense (again, I think they have the talent) you don't lay back, you dictate what the offense does and you don't react.

 

[randymon]

Yup, it has worked until now but I'm concerned if we run into a capable QB and play that way.... I have seen a lot of teams blow games with the bend don't break / prevent D. And you're only partially right, the object is to run time but also to keep them out of the end zone and tighten up the closer you get to the endzone. That hasn't happened in some games and we have had to recover onside kicks late in games with two score leads before the opposing teams last drives. My point is they have better talent than just to play back and let teams go down the field and score. If you want to be a dominate defense (again, I think they have the talent) you don't lay back, you dictate what the offense does and you don't react.

don`t know why it says "originally posted" by me. There trying to take the credit from you Broncos6482

 

[Broncosr0k]

The point of the prevent defense is to keep the other team from scoring quickly. It trades yards for time off the clock. The hope is that the d will make the stop once the other team gets to the red zone, but even if they don't, the idea is that they've had to burn so much time you win anyway even if they score. That's why you'll see teams implement it when they have a multiple score lead.

Ultimately, it's about winning the game. And since the Broncos haven't lost a single game this season in which they've used a prevent defense, I'd say it's worked as intended.

I just think we have been going into it a little early. If it comes down to stopping a last minute drive or onside kick I think we left too much time on the clock.

 

[iknowftbll]

I just think we have been going into it a little early. If it comes down to stopping a last minute drive or onside kick I think we left too much time on the clock.

This is my complaint. When they did it against the Niners and Raiders and gave up late scores it didn't bother me because the Broncos were north of 40 in both of those games. Generally it won't bother me if the Broncos lead by 3 TDs and a late score only closes that to 2 TDs. When the game comes down to an onside kick attempt, to me that is a sign the Broncos went prevent a little too early. They went prevent early in the 4th against the Chiefs and gave up a TD. Thankfully they turned the pressure back on following that series.

I do think the prevent has its place, I just think Del Rio goes to it too early and would like to see less of it in games where a late score by the opponent brings the differential to a single-score game.

 

[Broncos6482]

In SB xxxII coach Mike Shanahan "famously" instructed his DC to keep playing same D as the Green Bay Packers attempted to drive down field in final 2 mins. The D held and Denver won.

Denver " famously" botched the prevent D in the 2012 AFC Div Rd vs Ravens when with 40 secs left....bla,bla.bla. We all remember how that went.

The prevent D is rarely used on consecutive downs or with significant time left. When the defense concedes short plays, an offense that can practice "clock managment" effectively can SCORE without executing the long pass that the Defense seeks to prevent.

Legendary coach John Madden once said..." All a prevent D does is prevent you from winning".

Super Bowl XXXII was a one score game. You don't play prevent in a one score game (incidentally, that's a lesson Shanahan learned from the loss in Kansas City earlier that season). Same thing with the Baltimore game, one score game so being in prevent was a bad idea.

If what Madden said is correct, why haven't the Broncos lost yet when they've used it? I just don't understand the outright dismissal of the prevent. Just like any other strategy, it can be an effective way to hold onto wins when used properly.

 

[cdumler7]

I am one not completely dismissing it but like a couple of others have said I just think we go to it a bit too early. I just wish they would wait another drive or two so that a 3 score game only becomes a 2 score game instead of coming down to the onside kick. I understand the reasoning behind the prevent and like I said don't mind us using it some late in games when up big but just have to make sure we don't do it too soon. Have to remember that if they come back and tie it up it isn't as easy to switch back from the prevent to the aggressive style.

 

[Broncos6482]

This is my complaint. When they did it against the Niners and Raiders and gave up late scores it didn't bother me because the Broncos were north of 40 in both of those games. Generally it won't bother me if the Broncos lead by 3 TDs and a late score only closes that to 2 TDs. When the game comes down to an onside kick attempt, to me that is a sign the Broncos went prevent a little too early. They went prevent early in the 4th against the Chiefs and gave up a TD. Thankfully they turned the pressure back on following that series.

I do think the prevent has its place, I just think Del Rio goes to it too early and would like to see less of it in games where a late score by the opponent brings the differential to a single-score game.

I agree with that, to an extent. But I'm not as concerned about the on sides kicks as everyone else. Expected on sides kicks are recovered by the kicking team just under 10% of the time. And using the Bills game as an example, even if the Bills recover the onsides kick, they would still have to score another touchdown just to get the game to overtime. According to pro-football reference, the Broncos win expectancy was over 99% the entire 4th quarter, and it was at 100% even after the Bills scored a touchdown to cut the lead to 24-17.

 

[Broncos6482]

Yup, it has worked until now but I'm concerned if we run into a capable QB and play that way.... I have seen a lot of teams blow games with the bend don't break / prevent D. And you're only partially right, the object is to run time but also to keep them out of the end zone and tighten up the closer you get to the endzone. That hasn't happened in some games and we have had to recover onside kicks late in games with two score leads before the opposing teams last drives. My point is they have better talent than just to play back and let teams go down the field and score. If you want to be a dominate defense (again, I think they have the talent) you don't lay back, you dictate what the offense does and you don't react.

I specifically said that in my post that you quoted. Here it is again.

The hope is that the d will make the stop once the other team gets to the red zone, but even if they don't, the idea is that they've had to burn so much time you win anyway even if they score.