The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[MAGA2024]

There was a clear depression in the NBA after the 80’s teams aged out. The Bulls dominated a less difficult NBA

It reminds me of the recent change of guard in tennis. Novak Djokavic now has the most major championships in history, but he wasn’t rattling them off until Federer and Nadal aged out… and there were no up and coming stars that were kicking the mid-late 30’s tennis star out the door like normally happens.

While Djokavic has more majors, I don’t have him over Federer because Federer had to face better competition and another all time great in his prime. Same goes for Jordan and the Bulls. They beat who was in front of them, but they are harmed by the relatively low level of finals opponents they faced. Mike Tyson has the same problem.. he never had an all time great to beat when he was in his prime

If by "depression" you mean the NBA skyrocketed to unprecedented levels of nationwide AND global popularity, then you would be correct. Otherwise there was nothing depressing about the Era if you actually witnessed it.

As for Jordan's alleged "low level" of Finals opponents (lolol), that Myth has been thoroughly and irrefutably debunked repeatedly, including in this thread.

Jordan dethroned (all-time great) Isiah and the two-time defending Champion Pistons, and then he beat Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers (both teams younger than those Spurs LeBron faced in the Finals 3 times). Jordan also beat prime Shaq, and he beat the 97 and 98 Jazz who crushed the Duncan/Robinson Spurs (who won the Championship in 99), beat the Shaq/Kobe and two other All Star Lakers TWICE (including a sweep in 98), and knocked off the Dream/Barkley/Drexler Rockets TWICE... meanwhile the 96 Sonics were arguably better, having swept the 2-time defending Champion Rockets before defeating those same Jazz (before getting squashed by the Bulls).

The 'weak Finals opponents"'narrative doesn't work because it's not true. If you want to argue LeBron's Finals opponents were better, that's one thing. But to claim Jordan's Finals opponents were "relatively low level" is baseless, factless, and laughable.

 

[MAGA2024]

Because their quality of competition was subpar. We've gone around and around on this. The fact the Dubs lost a finals is due to a much better competitive environment they found themselves in than the early 90s Bulls were.

There is a distinct reason MJs Bulls didn't get to the top of the hill until after those teams fell off.

"Much better competitive environment" based on what criteria, exactly?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

"Much better competitive environment" based on what criteria, exactly?

For starters any time teams can shoot effectively from deep it stretches out a defense. But with that said this is a useless conversation with you, do you have anything to add to the board that does not have to do with Michael Jordan

This is all rather boring.