The Case Against MJ as the GOAT (topical discussion only please)

[Wamu]

Yes. I did...of his era.

Well this is proof you don't watch NBA action.

MJ wasn't a point guard. He was a shooting guard.

 

[rmilia1]

if you want proof that people opinions are almost solely based on who they grew up watching you don't need to look any further than the fact very few people mention Kareem in these debates other than the ancillary ( "well oh and Kareen was obviously great" )

But Kareen had the best of everything

He's got all the same shit on his resume as MJ AND all the same shit on his resume as LeBron

While they're over there arguing longevity vs prime Kareem has both

While they're over there arguing rings vs total stats Kareem has both

As well as being both the greatest HS player ever AND the greatest college player ever almost inarguably

But he's only an aside in these debates now because the people having the debate are nearly all in their 20s-50s

If you take the best parts of MJs resume and they had a baby with the best parts of LBJs resume that baby would be Kareems resume lol

 

[msgkings322]

More blah blah blah from a guy who fancies himself as a troll. LMFAO. No self-respecting troll ever claimed to be a troll. Get a clue. (Didn't read any further than this.)

It’s amusing how often you declare you aren’t going to read my posts. No one cares what you do or why I’m living in your head.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

if you want proof that people opinions are almost solely based on who they grew up watching you don't need to look any further than the fact very few people mention Kareem in these debates other than the ancillary ( "well oh and Kareen was obviously great" )

But Kareen had the best of everything

He's got all the same shit on his resume as MJ AND all the same shit on his resume as LeBron

While they're over there arguing longevity vs prime Kareem has both

While they're over there arguing rings vs total stats Kareem has both

As well as being both the greatest HS player ever AND the greatest college player ever almost inarguably

But he's only an aside in these debates now because the people having the debate are nearly all in their 20s-50s

If you take the best parts of MJs resume and they had a baby with the best parts of LBJs resume that baby would be Kareems resume lol

Kareem for me is the clear 3, you can absolutely argue he is the best basketball player ever if you add pre NBA accomplishments. To me what drops him a notch is it took him teaming with Magic to get to the 2nd ring and his Laker teams were pretty underwhelming. It would be different had he been taking those LA teams to the finals and Magic pushed him over.

 

[rmilia1]

Kareem for me is the clear 3, you can absolutely argue he is the best basketball player ever if you add pre NBA accomplishments. To me what drops him a notch is it took him teaming with Magic to get to the 2nd ring and his Laker teams were pretty underwhelming. It would be different had he been taking those LA teams to the finals and Magic pushed him over.

I think you can make that argument with pretty much everyone in the top 5 though

They all needed someone else to get them most if not all their rings

People like to hold Magic against Kareem but Magic never won a ring without Kareem. And i could easily argue Kareem was the best player on at least 2 if not 3 of those teams and the most important player on the team in all 5 even if he was not the best by that point

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I think you can make that argument with pretty much everyone in the top 5 though

They all needed someone else to get them most if not all their rings

People like to hold Magic against Kareem but Magic never won a ring without Kareem. And i could easily argue Kareem was the best player on at least 2 if not 3 of those teams and the most important player on the team in all 5 even if he was not the best by that point

Don't necessarily disagree with you, and I think your argument on time holds water for sure. I was very young in the late 80s so my recollection was it was Magics team. I think that's where you see Kareem lose points, never has a team with LeBron or MJ they not been the clear 1.

 

[rmilia1]

Don't necessarily disagree with you, and I think your argument on time holds water for sure. I was very young in the late 80s so my recollection was it was Magics team. I think that's where you see Kareem lose points, never has a team with LeBron or MJ they not been the clear 1.

Its tougher with centers for sure but they're not the guy with the ball most of the time so it being "your team" is much more difficult especially pre 2000s

Not as tough now with how the game is different though

But even when Cs rolled the sport most of the time their teams weren't seen as theirs unless they were literally the only star on the squad. Because they were playing a dependent position and the other guy had the ball more

 

[rmilia1]

Another thing i think that works against Kareem is even when he was in his prime and dominating the league he was mostly shunned by the media of the time because he was not affable, he was an intelligent introvert who showed little emotion and he was political in regards to civil rights and outspoken about things long before that was seem as acceptable

So there was never really that era where he was loved and cherished for his play. He did become revered AFTER he retired and respected for everything he did and the bravery to do it

But kids didn't grow up in the 60s/70s/80s LOVING Kareem like they would've if he'd just been a nice dude who was likable and didn't do the other shit

So there isn't that built in base of people who will die on a hill for him like there is MJ our even to a lesser extent LeBron

 

[PolarVortex]

Well this is proof you don't watch NBA action.

MJ wasn't a point guard. He was a shooting guard.

interchangeable in his era. 5.3 assists per game. Doesn't sound like a full time shoot guard to me.

 

[PolarVortex]

It’s amusing how often you declare you aren’t going to read my posts. No one cares what you do or why I’m living in your head.

'No one'. LOL. What's really amusing is that you think you speak for everyone.

 

[msgkings322]

'No one'. LOL. What's really amusing is that you think you speak for everyone.

Oh you think some folks here care what posts you read or what you post? Charming.

 

[rmilia1]

Oh you think some folks here care what posts you read or what you post? Charming.

I only care what posts Steve Winwood reads

Best reader ever. Hands down.

 

[PolarVortex]

Oh you think some folks here care what you post? Charming.

Well, seeing as you have responded to well over 100 of my posts, I'd say that you care, for one. Now, you could define it as some other lame as bullshit as I know you will, but, well, this is your life. This right here. 142,600 posts, dude. The only people who have time for that have no social life. This is the extent of your socializing. You can't hack the real world so you live life through an internet bubble. You definitely care how people respond to you in here the same as someone would at a dinner party. So, go ahead, try to cover up, but know in advance, you aren't fooling me.

 

[Wamu]

interchangeable in his era. 5.3 assists per game. Doesn't sound like a full time shoot guard to me.

Well he wasn't a pointing guard. Odd you keep insisting he was. Here are some real point guards from MJ's era and their assists.

Isiah Thomas- 9.3

John Stockton- 10.5

Mark Jackson- 8.0

Tim Hardaway- 8.2

Kevin Johnson- 9.1

Rod Strickland- 7.3


When's the last time you watched an entire NBA game? Bet it's been a long time.

 

[Wamu]

Well, seeing as you have responded to well over 100 of my posts, I'd say that you care, for one. Now, you could define it as some other lame as bullshit as I know you will, but, well, this is your life. This right here. 142,600 posts, dude. The only people who have time for that have no social life. This is the extent of your socializing. You can't hack the real world so you live life through an internet bubble. You definitely care how people respond to you in here the same as someone would at a dinner party. So, go ahead, try to cover up, but know in advance, you aren't fooling me.

How important do you think you are? Because what you said is insanely hilarious.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

interchangeable in his era. 5.3 assists per game. Doesn't sound like a full time shoot guard to me.

Nah, MJ was a SG. LeBron is more of a point than MJ ever was.

 

[PolarVortex]

Well he wasn't a pointing guard. Odd you keep insisting he was. Here are some real point guards from MJ's era and their assists.

Isiah Thomas- 9.3

John Stockton- 10.5

Mark Jackson- 8.0

Tim Hardaway- 8.2

Kevin Johnson- 9.1

Rod Strickland- 7.3


When's the last time you watched an entire NBA game? Bet it's been a long time.

So, you got....six...count em...six...that it?..six...point guards with more assists per game? Out of what.....32 teams?.... with more assissts during MJ's time? And that is supposed to impress me and prove to me that he wasn't a point guard? LOL. Dude. Please tell m\e you have something better than that.

 

[MAGA2024]

Referee favoritism his entire career. MJ is not the GOAT. When you backwards dribble your ass into the defender's dick, who is standing absolutely still, and the ref calls a foul on the defender...folks, that is called referee favoritism, and I witnessed that at least 500 times. A true GOAT does not need ref help.

Personal Fouls Called Against:
Jordan: 2.6 in 38.3 min per game
LeBron: 1.8 in 37.8 min per game

Free Throw / FGA ratio:
Jordan: 8.2 FTA on 22.9 FGA/g
LeBron: 7.5 FTA on 19.6 FGA/g

Agreed... GOAT's shouldn't need help from the Refs, which is why LeBron is not the GOAT.

 

[PolarVortex]

How important do you think you are? Because what you said is insanely hilarious.

Show me where in any of my posts where I said I was important? Escalate much?

 

[MAGA2024]

Not deflecting. Ignoring. You are beneath me and not worth my time.

Translation: You got your shit pushed in with facts and substance and have NOTHING to offer in terms of a rebuttal, so instead you resort to insults.

Typical LeBron fan.

SMH