AL Central Discussion

[broncosmitty]

Baseball should totally try and do that with a position.

 

[TheGoodMan19]

The NFL owners were smart enough to accept free agency but make it nearly impossible for top QB's to move. The small market teams would be devastated to see their QB develop and move to a big team. Mahomes moving to Dallas, Allen to the Giants, Lamar to the Jets.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

The NFL owners were smart enough to accept free agency but make it nearly impossible for top QB's to move. The small market teams would be devastated to see their QB develop and move to a big team. Mahomes moving to Dallas, Allen to the Giants, Lamar to the Jets.

Pittsburgh Steelers would meet the same fate as the Pirates, albeit with more competent management.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Bottom line, Baseball needs a floor. Maybe some more restrictions as far as deferments and how money is structured so it's not a broken accounting glitch with few real drawbacks.

 

[TheGoodMan19]

I don't think baseball is as broke as some think. At least as competitive balance. What the Astros did from 2011-2013 words. Get rid of anything of value, suffer through ghastly seasons and use the time and payroll to rebuild. Astros went from the 2nd worst three year stretch in history to a tile in four years. Baltimore did the same. Washington is on the road back as are the Athletics. But MLB screws itself by dropping teams in the draft. The White Sox lose 121 and pick 10th overall. Would it have been better to not fire sale and lost 99?

Baseball's continual problem is marketing. Ask the common Joe to name as many NFL and NBA players and nearly anyone can name some. Mahomes, Allen, LeBron, Steph etc. Ask them to name baseball players and see what you get. Ohtani, Judge, De La Cruz should be recognizable names. That helps league wise. If everyone knows of Aaron Judge fans will pack parks and boost TV in any city. Not just New York, not just KC but Fargo, El Paso, Punxsutaney

 

[The Q]

I don't think baseball is as broke as some think. At least as competitive balance. What the Astros did from 2011-2013 words. Get rid of anything of value, suffer through ghastly seasons and use the time and payroll to rebuild. Astros went from the 2nd worst three year stretch in history to a tile in four years. Baltimore did the same. Washington is on the road back as are the Athletics. But MLB screws itself by dropping teams in the draft. The White Sox lose 121 and pick 10th overall. Would it have been better to not fire sale and lost 99?

Baseball's continual problem is marketing. Ask the common Joe to name as many NFL and NBA players and nearly anyone can name some. Mahomes, Allen, LeBron, Steph etc. Ask them to name baseball players and see what you get. Ohtani, Judge, De La Cruz should be recognizable names. That helps league wise. If everyone knows of Aaron Judge fans will pack parks and boost TV in any city. Not just New York, not just KC but Fargo, El Paso, Punxsutaney

Bingo.

This is it.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Baseball should totally try and do that with a position.

All time pitchers lol

 

[Shanemansj13]

And yet it has more parity than the nfl

Bc it is the very different of a TEAM sport.

Basketball you have 5 starters. One player can take over a game.
Football, like Viking said, a QB has the ball in their hands on every snap.
I could give a shit about hockey.
Baseball. Starter pitchers barely last 6 innings now. A hitter can take over a game to an extent but it is much harder especially if they have an option to send him to first base. It's unlike any other sport and that's why it is great to the people that played it, appreciate it and know how hard it is to build a great team...but then you start getting into teams trying to "buy" a title. It still takes much more than that but when you put all-star players at each position vs a team with low revenue and clearly lower budget there is a huge disparity in a 5-7 game series. Parity? Sure but not for the champion. Likely a still a big market team unless everything goes perfectly right for that lower market team.

LA, Texas, Houston, Atlanta, LA, Washington, Boston, Houston, Chicago, KC, San Fran, Boston, San Fran, St Louis, San Fran, NY, Philly, Boston, St Louis, Chicago

Lower market teams won one title in the past 20 years. I still agree there is more parity but I think we will see less with the largest market teams spending more and more. I think we've seen the best and it is going downhill from here unless they make a change.

 

[The Q]

Bc it is the very different of a TEAM sport.

Basketball you have 5 starters. One player can take over a game.
Football, like Viking said, a QB has the ball in their hands on every snap.
I could give a shit about hockey.
Baseball. Starter pitchers barely last 6 innings now. A hitter can take over a game to an extent but it is much harder especially if they have an option to send him to first base. It's unlike any other sport and that's why it is great to the people that played it, appreciate it and know how hard it is to build a great team...but then you start getting into teams trying to "buy" a title. It still takes much more than that but when you put all-star players at each position vs a team with low revenue and clearly lower budget there is a huge disparity in a 5-7 game series. Parity? Sure but not for the champion. Likely a still a big market team unless everything goes perfectly right for that lower market team.

LA, Texas, Houston, Atlanta, LA, Washington, Boston, Houston, Chicago, KC, San Fran, Boston, San Fran, St Louis, San Fran, NY, Philly, Boston, St Louis, Chicago

Lower market teams won one title in the past 20 years. I still agree there is more parity but I think we will see less with the largest market teams spending more and more. I think we've seen the best and it is going downhill from here unless they make a change.

Stl

The market so big it has no nfl or nba team


No, they’re the model


CLe is just too cheap to even do that

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Stl

The market so big it has no nfl or nba team


No, they’re the model


CLe is just too cheap to even do that

Well Dolan died so maybe there is hope.

 

[dtgold88]

Stl

The market so big it has no nfl or nba team


No, they’re the model


CLe is just too cheap to even do that

No doubt the Tribe is too cheap. I get why we cannot keep up with NY, LA, etc.....why they don't want to sign guys to ridiculous megadeals. But no reason they cannot spend at least league avg. in a contending window. If not willing to do that/have a will to win why buy a team? Better ways to earn yearly profits I'd think.

 

[dtgold88]

Well Dolan died so maybe there is hope.

He hasn't run the team in years so not sure it matters.....can only hope Blitzer has a will to win like other owners in this city.

 

[The Q]

No doubt the Tribe is too cheap. I get why we cannot keep up with NY, LA, etc.....why they don't want to sign guys to ridiculous megadeals. But no reason they cannot spend at least league avg. in a contending window. If not willing to do that/have a will to win why buy a team? Better ways to earn yearly profits I'd think.

The difference is in baseball you have 7 years of theoretically sub market value

So small market teams have as much of a chance with those extra years

 

[The Q]

No doubt the Tribe is too cheap. I get why we cannot keep up with NY, LA, etc.....why they don't want to sign guys to ridiculous megadeals. But no reason they cannot spend at least league avg. in a contending window. If not willing to do that/have a will to win why buy a team? Better ways to earn yearly profits I'd think.

but yea it's not about spending like the Dodgers.

Teams have won spending a lot less.

I don't even mind selling high on Naylor. But I don't think they actually did that.

and their refusal to add even decent hitters in the OF is just baffling to me.

they could have easily made the WS last year, they were just simply, cheap.

 

[dtgold88]

but yea it's not about spending like the Dodgers.

Teams have won spending a lot less.

I don't even mind selling high on Naylor. But I don't think they actually did that.

and their refusal to add even decent hitters in the OF is just baffling to me.

they could have easily made the WS last year, they were just simply, cheap.

I cannot even rip them for their approach last year as they went further than most expected. Also don't mind selling off Naylor as my guess is he wanted the last dollar. But how about after rehabbing him keep Boyd who didn't sign a crazy deal as we do need another starter if not 2?

I'd be most critical of past seasons where we had arguably the top staff in league with guys like Kluber, Bauer, Clevinger pitching well and did nothing to help in the OF. could have gone after guys like Nelson Cruz, Castellanos, etc.

 

[The Q]

I cannot even rip them for their approach last year as they went further than most expected. Also don't mind selling off Naylor as my guess is he wanted the last dollar. But how about after rehabbing him keep Boyd who didn't sign a crazy deal as we do need another starter if not 2?

I'd be most critical of past seasons where we had arguably the top staff in league with guys like Kluber, Bauer, Clevinger pitching well and did nothing to help in the OF. could have gone after guys like Nelson Cruz, Castellanos, etc.

Exactly

Naylor is a bad bodied 1b who is going to age poorly. Not sure you want him beyond age 30ish

But they also didn’t get much for him

But yeah when you had that staff, you needed to get back to your 2016 style platoon heavy offense in the OF

It should’ve won you a title (but rajai Davis forgot how to play cf for a night)

 

[WiggyRuss]

Well Dolan died so maybe there is hope.

as a lawyer that deals with the type of thing- Dolan dying very well might bring on new ownership.

There is no Ohio estate tax, but there is a federal one. Each person's personal federal exemption amount is $10M indexed for inflation (it is about 14 million right now). If you have a spouse, and have ported over her exemption (if she has passed) you can use her exemption too- so about 28 million.

After that- you owe 40% federal estate tax. Now I am sure they have done planning, and could have gifted shares previously, got some discounts, etc.....but say they have a book value of like 600 million for the team (even though its prob worth at least a bill)......you have to pay 40% tax on that to pass it down to your kids.....now there are circumstances where you can pay that 40% tax over a number of years....but I mean- its a big number. Probably at least a quarter bill in taxes.

Fun fact- the year George Steinbrenner died is the year there was no federal estate tax because of certain legislation basically caused a 1 year reprieve on it.

So- Dolans might have to sell the team to pay their interest---or they would have to take revenue from the team for years to come to pay it down. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I am not sure if Dolan's wife is still alive- there is an unlimited marital exemption- so if she is still alive he can give it all to her without estate tax- but of course when she dies- the same problem comes up.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I don't think baseball is as broke as some think. At least as competitive balance. What the Astros did from 2011-2013 words. Get rid of anything of value, suffer through ghastly seasons and use the time and payroll to rebuild. Astros went from the 2nd worst three year stretch in history to a tile in four years. Baltimore did the same. Washington is on the road back as are the Athletics. But MLB screws itself by dropping teams in the draft. The White Sox lose 121 and pick 10th overall. Would it have been better to not fire sale and lost 99?

Baseball's continual problem is marketing. Ask the common Joe to name as many NFL and NBA players and nearly anyone can name some. Mahomes, Allen, LeBron, Steph etc. Ask them to name baseball players and see what you get. Ohtani, Judge, De La Cruz should be recognizable names. That helps league wise. If everyone knows of Aaron Judge fans will pack parks and boost TV in any city. Not just New York, not just KC but Fargo, El Paso, Punxsutaney

so teams with less money just have to tear it down to the studs, suck for a few years, hope they draft well and have a 4-5 year window before they have to tear it down again and suck- just to have a chance to compete against the richest of teams. Doesnt sound so great.

 

[Shanemansj13]

but yea it's not about spending like the Dodgers.

Teams have won spending a lot less.

I don't even mind selling high on Naylor. But I don't think they actually did that.

and their refusal to add even decent hitters in the OF is just baffling to me.

they could have easily made the WS last year, they were just simply, cheap.

The OF has been issue for years...they still believe in the farm system. Everything depends on the farm system and developing players. They have been one of the best in the league and really with trading SP's when their time is up.

But lets be honest. Are they beating the Dodgers even spending average or above league average? Bieber was lost for the season so they were at a disadvantage from the start. I think they could have very well beat the Yankees but as we saw there was a huge gap between LA and every other team last year.

 

[Shanemansj13]

as a lawyer that deals with the type of thing- Dolan dying very well might bring on new ownership.

There is no Ohio estate tax, but there is a federal one. Each person's personal federal exemption amount is $10M indexed for inflation (it is about 14 million right now). If you have a spouse, and have ported over her exemption (if she has passed) you can use her exemption too- so about 28 million.

After that- you owe 40% federal estate tax. Now I am sure they have done planning, and could have gifted shares previously, got some discounts, etc.....but say they have a book value of like 600 million for the team (even though its prob worth at least a bill)......you have to pay 40% tax on that to pass it down to your kids.....now there are circumstances where you can pay that 40% tax over a number of years....but I mean- its a big number. Probably at least a quarter bill in taxes.

Fun fact- the year George Steinbrenner died is the year there was no federal estate tax because of certain legislation basically caused a 1 year reprieve on it.

So- Dolans might have to sell the team to pay their interest---or they would have to take revenue from the team for years to come to pay it down. It will be interesting to see what happens.

I am not sure if Dolan's wife is still alive- there is an unlimited marital exemption- so if she is still alive he can give it all to her without estate tax- but of course when she dies- the same problem comes up.

His wife is still alive so maybe they wait until she passes. It makes sense. I would hope they sell asap though lol