Who will be the New OC?

[Skin'EmAll]

Mayer is tough for me, he has great numbers, saw him do good in a couple games but i think TE in the 1st is a luxury

 

[Stymietee]

gotta agree. We are shit at developing QBs. So what is the secret? Is it eventually to suck enough to have a legit chance at a big fish. Or is it that there are actually very few QB gurus that can do it So most teams suck at developing one?

First, let me apologize for responding to your post and questions. Overall, you ask very legitimate questions and I wanted to give myself enough time to offer an equally thoughtful and considerate response. That said, let's get started!

If you're going to use the draft route to get that big fish and you're Washington, a team that historically owns mid-draft selections, your choices in getting that big fish aren't very good. They are...

Having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Getting extremely lucky with a late-round QB, plus having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Having an awful season combined with a draft that offers top-of-the-line, high-pedigree talent, plus having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Trading up in a QB-rich draft to get your guy, plus, having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Trading for a YOUNG top-end, high-pedigree QB on those extremely rare occasions where they become available, plus having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Now, if you detected a theme in the above scenarios, read on in order to get the answer to your question concerning the "secret" to developing young QBs. As I get into this I'll offer examples to support what is being stated.

There is no "secret" formula beyond basic observational skills in developing young QBs. Unfortunately, too many people are of a plug-and-play mentality including professional coaches and the fans that follow their favorite teams. So my first example of this comes in the form of William Jackson (a non-QB) who made his mark as a man cover guy. Signed by Washington, he soon failed because he wasn't able to play to his strengths. This tells me that Washington had zero clues about the player and even less about how little he would fit in their defensive structure.

On to QBs

I'll give you 3 more recent examples of how young QBs can and must be developed that are abundantly clear to most people making these observations. Hopefully, we can all agree that in the annual draft evaluation process, first-round QBs generally come from the best college teams in the country. In that process, others are elevated primarily because of a perceived upside and a desperate need for QBs in the league. Since almost every player in the NFL once played on a college team and gained the recognition that determined their draft order, entered the NFL with that background, the "secret" if there is one comes by closely replicating the situations that made them successful coming in.

Joe Burrow... A high-end talent that went almost unrecognized until transferring to LSU and being surrounded by some of the best talents in college football. So what happens when he was introduced into the pro game? ... well... he was instantly surrounded by some of the best young talents in the NFL and the results were predictable.

Jalen Hurts... Another graduate of two of the best teams in college ball, (Alabama, and Oklahoma) was not known as an "elite" passer at school but owned the leadership qualities and that added run dimension that's fast becoming an NFL league norm. So, what does Philly do?... construct one of the best offensive lines in pro ball in order to take advantage of his run abilities. They then had him work on his passing deficiencies. and gave him very similar/familiar targets to those that he played with in school and the results were predictable. Already considered to be among the best in the NFL, his development is an ongoing but promising effort to improve his passing skills.

Trevor Lawrence... Labeled a "bust" in the making by many following his first NFL season, Lawrence rebounded after team management dismissed their coaching staff and remade their offensive roster to one resembling that which made him successful when playing at Clemson. They'll add a necessary wide receiver this year and watch as the result of their work puts him among the rising stars of a new generation of NFL QBs.

There's a running observational theme here and here are the local contrasting failures.

Washington with Kyle Shanahan attempted to replicate the same things that made Griffin successful at Baylor but the combination of poor organizational management, an offensive scheme unlike that of Baylor, and runaway, uncontrolled player dysfunction led to failure in D.C

Can anyone here state honestly that the construct of the Washington team that had Dwayne Haskins as QB looked remotely close to the one that made him successful at Ohio State? Nope!

Now comes Sam Howell's turn and if there's no effort to replicate those things that led to his venture into the NFL (essentially Taylor Heinicking him) The results will also be predictable.

 

[Stymietee]

I am intrigued by Fields but his accuracy is in question. Could he work on that? I guess that depends on why he has continued issues in this area at this point of his career.

Jalen Hurts had the exact same issues!

 

[skinz2winz]

Leno is horrible

Leno is serviceable.

 

[skinz2winz]

Jalen Hurts had the exact same issues!

Hurts apparently has issues changing hands with the football laying down a TD for the other team, lol. Must be his hand size?

 

[countryroads316]

Leno is serviceable.

And that's a major problem he is just barely serviceable

 

[Stymietee]

Hurts apparently has issues changing hands with the football laying down a TD for the other team, lol. Must be his hand size?

Now that's funny!!

 

[kbso83432]

First, let me apologize for responding to your post and questions. Overall, you ask very legitimate questions and I wanted to give myself enough time to offer an equally thoughtful and considerate response. That said, let's get started!

If you're going to use the draft route to get that big fish and you're Washington, a team that historically owns mid-draft selections, your choices in getting that big fish aren't very good. They are...

Having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Getting extremely lucky with a late-round QB, plus having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Having an awful season combined with a draft that offers top-of-the-line, high-pedigree talent, plus having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Trading up in a QB-rich draft to get your guy, plus, having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Trading for a YOUNG top-end, high-pedigree QB on those extremely rare occasions where they become available, plus having an organization that knows what to do with almost any QB that you get.

Now, if you detected a theme in the above scenarios, read on in order to get the answer to your question concerning the "secret" to developing young QBs. As I get into this I'll offer examples to support what is being stated.

There is no "secret" formula beyond basic observational skills in developing young QBs. Unfortunately, too many people are of a plug-and-play mentality including professional coaches and the fans that follow their favorite teams. So my first example of this comes in the form of William Jackson (a non-QB) who made his mark as a man cover guy. Signed by Washington, he soon failed because he wasn't able to play to his strengths. This tells me that Washington had zero clues about the player and even less about how little he would fit in their defensive structure.

On to QBs

I'll give you 3 more recent examples of how young QBs can and must be developed that are abundantly clear to most people making these observations. Hopefully, we can all agree that in the annual draft evaluation process, first-round QBs generally come from the best college teams in the country. In that process, others are elevated primarily because of a perceived upside and a desperate need for QBs in the league. Since almost every player in the NFL once played on a college team and gained the recognition that determined their draft order, entered the NFL with that background, the "secret" if there is one comes by closely replicating the situations that made them successful coming in.

Joe Burrow... A high-end talent that went almost unrecognized until transferring to LSU and being surrounded by some of the best talents in college football. So what happens when he was introduced into the pro game? ... well... he was instantly surrounded by some of the best young talents in the NFL and the results were predictable.

Jalen Hurts... Another graduate of two of the best teams in college ball, (Alabama, and Oklahoma) was not known as an "elite" passer at school but owned the leadership qualities and that added run dimension that's fast becoming an NFL league norm. So, what does Philly do?... construct one of the best offensive lines in pro ball in order to take advantage of his run abilities. They then had him work on his passing deficiencies. and gave him very similar/familiar targets to those that he played with in school and the results were predictable. Already considered to be among the best in the NFL, his development is an ongoing but promising effort to improve his passing skills.

Trevor Lawrence... Labeled a "bust" in the making by many following his first NFL season, Lawrence rebounded after team management dismissed their coaching staff and remade their offensive roster to one resembling that which made him successful when playing at Clemson. They'll add a necessary wide receiver this year and watch as the result of their work puts him among the rising stars of a new generation of NFL QBs.

There's a running observational theme here and here are the local contrasting failures.

Washington with Kyle Shanahan attempted to replicate the same things that made Griffin successful at Baylor but the combination of poor organizational management, an offensive scheme unlike that of Baylor, and runaway, uncontrolled player dysfunction led to failure in D.C

Can anyone here state honestly that the construct of the Washington team that had Dwayne Haskins as QB looked remotely close to the one that made him successful at Ohio State? Nope!

Now comes Sam Howell's turn and if there's no effort to replicate those things that led to his venture into the NFL (essentially Taylor Heinicking him) The results will also be predictable.

Great post. Any chance the Skins can use the Hurts model?

Spend money and use high draft picks to build up the o-line. The targets are there, even his favorite college target.

Howell can run, has the arm and doesn't have the passing question marks that many mistakenly thought Hurts had.

Both listed at 6'1.

I understand it's gonna take having a coach in place that can develop him for us to even have a chance to copy that model. Just curious if that is a possible avenue.

 

[Stymietee]

Great post. Any chance the Skins can use the Hurts model?

Spend money and use high draft picks to build up the o-line. The targets are there, even his favorite college target.

Howell can run, has the arm and doesn't have the passing question marks that many mistakenly thought Hurts had.

Both listed at 6'1.

I understand it's gonna take having a coach in place that can develop him for us to even have a chance to copy that model. Just curious if that is a possible avenue.

Yes, it's possible but highly unlikely given the lack of imaginative use of our previous QB's skillset. (Hienicke)
I know that some here have downplayed Rivera's call for a run-first attack, but isn't that what they did with Wince and Taylor?
If they hire EB as OC, an odd fit considering Rivera's defensive approach it will be interesting to note how well the two differing offensive philosophies mesh. (The more conservative Rivera vs. an imaginative more open Andy Reid type)

Early prediction... employing the Sam Howell model in his best year at Carolina as you've suggested will make this team respectable but now just as then won't get them very far into the playoffs picture. A qualifying wild-card berth, perhaps a first-round win and that's it.

 

[deanpet21]

Yes, it's possible but highly unlikely given the lack of imaginative use of our previous QB's skillset. (Hienicke)
I know that some here have downplayed Rivera's call for a run-first attack, but isn't that what they did with Wince and Taylor?
If they hire EB as OC, an odd fit considering Rivera's defensive approach it will be interesting to note how well the two differing offensive philosophies mesh. (The more conservative Rivera vs. an imaginative more open Andy Reid type)

Early prediction... employing the Sam Howell model in his best year at Carolina as you've suggested will make this team respectable but now just as then won't get them very far into the playoffs picture. A qualifying wild-card berth, perhaps a first-round win and that's it.

IF EB is hired, RR will be out of the offensive and defensive play calling and game planning., Which is a good thing. Nothing wrong with consistent wild card births or first round wins.

 

[kbso83432]

Yes, it's possible but highly unlikely given the lack of imaginative use of our previous QB's skillset. (Hienicke)
I know that some here have downplayed Rivera's call for a run-first attack, but isn't that what they did with Wince and Taylor?
If they hire EB as OC, an odd fit considering Rivera's defensive approach it will be interesting to note how well the two differing offensive philosophies mesh. (The more conservative Rivera vs. an imaginative more open Andy Reid type)

Early prediction... employing the Sam Howell model in his best year at Carolina as you've suggested will make this team respectable but now just as then won't get them very far into the playoffs picture. A qualifying wild-card berth, perhaps a first-round win and that's it.

Sheehan made a respectable case for hiring Greg Roman. Said you are pretty much guaranteed to have a top 5 running game and almost beat the Bengals with Huntley.

Said Bieniemy and Roman is like a bird in the hand vs two in the bush. You know what you're getting with Roman.

 

[Stymietee]

IF EB is hired, RR will be out of the offensive and defensive play calling and game planning., Which is a good thing. Nothing wrong with consistent wild card births or first round wins.

You're kidding, right?

There's a reason why Rivera felt comfortable enough to make that dumb assed statement about becoming a run-dominant team in 2023. He's going to dictate to whichever OC what he wants from his offense and won't be happy if he doesn't get it. He'll also want results or at least someone to blame if things don't go well.

Now I want to share an apparent secret with you....Ready??

The goal each and every year is to win it all, not to consistently qualify, consistently be a one-and-done type team, or anything like that. Win it all or your efforts have come up short!
I understand that it sounds good to be counted among those who are playoff relevant each year, especially when you have a fanbase as relevant starved as ours has been, but we cannot lose focus on the grand prize and I'll use you as evidence of this.

Let's say that it all comes to pass and Washington becomes one of those teams that regularly qualifies for the playoffs but once in may win a wildcard playoff game but gets no further. What will your points of concern be at that time, remaining the same or trying to figure out what can be done to get beyond that achievement?

 

[deanpet21]

You're kidding, right?

There's a reason why Rivera felt comfortable enough to make that dumb assed statement about becoming a run-dominant team in 2023. He's going to dictate to whichever OC what he wants from his offense and won't be happy if he doesn't get it. He'll also want results or at least someone to blame if things don't go well.

Now I want to share an apparent secret with you....Ready??

The goal each and every year is to win it all, not to consistently qualify, consistently be a one-and-done type team, or anything like that. Win it all or your efforts have come up short!
I understand that it sounds good to be counted among those who are playoff relevant each year, especially when you have a fanbase as relevant starved as ours has been, but we cannot lose focus on the grand prize and I'll use you as evidence of this.

Let's say that it all comes to pass and Washington becomes one of those teams that regularly qualifies for the playoffs but once in may win a wildcard playoff game but gets no further. What will your points of concern be at that time, remaining the same or trying to figure out what can be done to get beyond that achievement?

IF EB is hired, I think he will have full control of the offense with no interference from RR. As far as the playoffs it doesnt matter how you get there as long as we get there it's a different season. Perfect example is the Vikings with 13 wins and booted out in the first round.

Goal #1 is to get into the playoffs. Goal #2 Is to win in the playoffs and get a SuperBowl. RR seat is hot this year and he knows it. I think he will give EB whatever he wants to get him here.

 

[Stymietee]

Sheehan made a respectable case for hiring Greg Roman. Said you are pretty much guaranteed to have a top 5 running game and almost beat the Bengals with Huntley.

Something went wrong...I'll try to repost..

 

[Stymietee]

Sheehan made a respectable case for hiring Greg Roman. Said you are pretty much guaranteed to have a top 5 running game and almost beat the Bengals with Huntley.

Said Bieniemy and Roman is like a bird in the hand vs two in the bush. You know what you're getting with Roman.

There is no respectable case for going more conservative/ less dynamic as the Roman hire will surely bring to Washington armed with a weak O-line and without Lamar Jackson. The NFL is clearly a passing league now Here's something to consider before I ask the board a question...

The Washington Commanders put up 20.9 points per game in 2020.

The Washington Commanders put up 19.7 points per game in 2021.

The Washington Commanders put up 18.9 points per game in 2022.

Here's the question for you or anyone else who wants to chime in on it... Considering the makeup of our offense how would you characterize it?
1. Run-oriented?
2. Pass-oriented?
3. Balanced?
4. something else, (what)?

 

[deanpet21]

There is no respectable case for going more conservative/ less dynamic as the Roman hire will surely bring to Washington armed with a weak O-line and without Lamar Jackson. The NFL is clearly a passing league now Here's something to consider before I ask the board a question...

The Washington Commanders put up 20.9 points per game in 2020.

The Washington Commanders put up 19.7 points per game in 2021.

The Washington Commanders put up 18.9 points per game in 2022.

Here's the question for you or anyone else who wants to chime in on it... Considering the makeup of our offense how would you characterize it?
1. Run-oriented?
2. Pass-oriented?
3. Balanced?
4. something else, (what)?

You can't answer the question b/c we will have a New QB, new oline, and new OC.

 

[duke1861]

IF EB is hired, I think he will have full control of the offense with no interference from RR. As far as the playoffs it doesnt matter how you get there as long as we get there it's a different season. Perfect example is the Vikings with 13 wins and booted out in the first round.

Goal #1 is to get into the playoffs. Goal #2 Is to win in the playoffs and get a SuperBowl. RR seat is hot this year and he knows it. I think he will give EB whatever he wants to get him here.

You could not be more wrong. Rivera will give EB instructions and allow EB to execute those instructions. He will not literally walk away and let EB call flea flickers and end arounds every play. He has already said what type of offense he wants to run.

I am not sure where you come up with this stuff. Rivera has his hands tied with the sale so he cannot give EB whatever he wants.

 

[kbso83432]

There is no respectable case for going more conservative/ less dynamic as the Roman hire will surely bring to Washington armed with a weak O-line and without Lamar Jackson. The NFL is clearly a passing league now Here's something to consider before I ask the board a question...

The Washington Commanders put up 20.9 points per game in 2020.

The Washington Commanders put up 19.7 points per game in 2021.

The Washington Commanders put up 18.9 points per game in 2022.

Here's the question for you or anyone else who wants to chime in on it... Considering the makeup of our offense how would you characterize it?
1. Run-oriented?
2. Pass-oriented?
3. Balanced?
4. something else, (what)?

I can't tell you the makeup of our offense. It doesn't seem that we have a consistent indenity. I'm cautiously hoping for Bieniemy because I want to run a scheme similar to the scheme that most successful teams run today.

I'm curious to see if Bieniemy can game plan and make in-game adjustments.

 

[deanpet21]

You could not be more wrong. Rivera will give EB instructions and allow EB to execute those instructions. He will not literally walk away and let EB call flea flickers and end arounds every play. He has already said what type of offense he wants to run.

I am not sure where you come up with this stuff. Rivera has his hands tied with the sale so he cannot give EB whatever he wants.

EB will call the plays and the offense he wants IF he comes here. Why in the world would EB come here if he can't run the offense he wants?

 

[Stymietee]

IF EB is hired, I think he will have full control of the offense with no interference from RR. As far as the playoffs it doesnt matter how you get there as long as we get there it's a different season. Perfect example is the Vikings with 13 wins and booted out in the first round.

Goal #1 is to get into the playoffs. Goal #2 Is to win in the playoffs and get a SuperBowl. RR seat is hot this year and he knows it. I think he will give EB whatever he wants to get him here.

C'mon, @Dean don't do this with me. You've contradicted yourself at worse or changed the narrative at best. Here's the evidence... You wrote as a be all end all statement "Nothing wrong with consistent wild card births or first-round wins." which was correct and stayed within the conversation that we were having about being relevant annually, remember? Now you want to change the narrative to, (again quoting you) "Goal #1 is to get into the playoffs. Goal #2 Is to win in the playoffs and get a SuperBowl." None of this happens if we stick to the conversation that we were having about becoming relevant and limited to (quoting myself) "A qualifying wild-card berth, perhaps a first-round win and that's it."

I understand your unwillingness to critically view your favorite team, but I have faith in you man...