Heinicke is QB1 moving forward per report.

[gkekoa]

Yeah, to simply its all about Taylor isn't being fair to Wentz or the defense. Does Taylor inspire his team mates in a way that Wentz can't. Sure, I can roll with that. He reminds me of Alex Smith some in that regard. Does Taylor somehow make the team play better or above what they’re 8capable of? Nope.

Wentz had games of 8, 10, 17, 7, and 12 points. Somehow we got a win in the 12 point performance. The defense, as good as it has been, has only held two opponents under 17 points. With Wentz at QB, we can’t score enough to win with great defense. Wentz takes horrible sacks and cannot lead a team.

You say TH does not make the team play better but the facts do not back that statement up. The only difference between the Chicago/GB game of any note is TH over CW. TH makes this team better if we are comparing this team with CW playing. I am not saying TH is a starting QB…I am saying he is a better QB than CW.

 

[gkekoa]

you won't recognize that TH is getting an average of 2 turnovers a game while playing. I already posted the stat. Now TH gets a pick 6 and 2 turnovers today. That has alot to do why we are winning. Plus, the oline is playing better and the arrival of Robinson. If you want to compare the two qB's these stats matter.

Stop saying I won’t recognize things when I do. The defense is getting two turnovers/game for TH. The defense is playing better for TH. I agree that these things have a lot to do with why we are winning.

Now point to me how we miraculously got better on defense with the same personnel and same coaching. It was instantaneous too. What happened? I can point to CW no longer being the QB as a factor.

You claim the OL is better. What can you use to prove that? Is it possible the QB has a part in the OLs success? Is it possible that not having a clueless statue is a factor in the claimed improvement?

Then you point to Robinson coming back as the reason. Robinson is averaging 3.4 ypc.

From there, you don’t answer why the team is scoring 22.4 PPG with TH but only scored 17 PPG with CW. BTW, the defense has only held two teams under 17 since TH took over. Thankfully, the defense held the Bears under 10 because we only scored 12 with CW. Wentz should have been 1-5 because he is garbage.

 

[chillerdab]

but think about this what if the 2023 2nd round pick didn't exist for the 70% of the snaps? Would Wentz be playing against ATL? I can understand why TH would get the start against ATL to protect the 2nd round pick on a winnable game. If Wentz starts the Giants game the 2nd round pick in 2023 wouldn't happen. Wentz isn't ready today regardless so there is no decision to be made right now.

I have no idea why so many people bother engaging with you, El Deano.

You’re the only one who thinks that Wentz should be in there.

You’re so obtuse about it, I think you’re full of shit, and just enjoy being argumentative about anything.

In any case, Wentz sucks, TH gets the team excited, and everything else doesnt matter in the slightest.

 

[deanpet21]

I have no idea why so many people bother engaging with you, El Deano.

You’re the only one who thinks that Wentz should be in there.

You’re so obtuse about it, I think you’re full of shit, and just enjoy being argumentative about anything.

In any case, Wentz sucks, TH gets the team excited, and everything else doesnt matter in the slightest.

not at all. this board wants TH which is fine. Gk is trying to say why we are winning now with TH and I told him that Wentz didnt get the breaks that TH is getting right now.

 

[chillerdab]

not at all. this board wants TH which is fine. Gk is trying to say why we are winning now with TH and I told him that Wentz didnt get the breaks that TH is getting right now.

Wentz didnt get the breaks that TH got…. WWWAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Wentz got three years of breaks and sucked moose dong everywhere he went.

TH made the lost of his breaks and Wentz did not.

 

[deanpet21]

Stop saying I won’t recognize things when I do. The defense is getting two turnovers/game for TH. The defense is playing better for TH. I agree that these things have a lot to do with why we are winning.

Now point to me how we miraculously got better on defense with the same personnel and same coaching. It was instantaneous too. What happened? I can point to CW no longer being the QB as a factor.

You claim the OL is better. What can you use to prove that? Is it possible the QB has a part in the OLs success? Is it possible that not having a clueless statue is a factor in the claimed improvement?

Then you point to Robinson coming back as the reason. Robinson is averaging 3.4 ypc.

From there, you don’t answer why the team is scoring 22.4 PPG with TH but only scored 17 PPG with CW. BTW, the defense has only held two teams under 17 since TH took over. Thankfully, the defense held the Bears under 10 because we only scored 12 with CW. Wentz should have been 1-5 because he is garbage.

this is the first message you recognized it. The defense is better b/c of the turnovers which we didn't get with CW. You can blame CW all you want. TH has made plays but the reason why we are winning I already posted. Yes the olinie is better Turner is playing a lot better and the arrvbal of larsen is better than Nick Martin. Robinson is a good short yardage back. We have a good one two punch there. Yes Robinson make a difference in the offense. The fact I have to say this is hilarious. We are scoring more b/c the defense is turning the ball over giving TH and the offense more opportunities. Im comparing QB to QB.

 

[dcrising]

i'm so fucking tired of this wentz vs TH shit. its over. Wentz is now an afterthought unless TH gets hurt. for fucks sake.

 

[gkekoa]

you won't recognize that TH is getting an average of 2 turnovers a game while playing. I already posted the stat. Now TH gets a pick 6 and 2 turnovers today. That has alot to do why we are winning. Plus, the oline is playing better and the arrival of Robinson. If you want to compare the two qB's these stats matter.

Again, I am not sure why you say I won’t recognize it. If that is the stat, then it is a fact. Turnovers do have a lot to do with winning.

You claim the OL is playing better. Prove that. Why are they playing better? Robinson is averaging 3.4 ypc. That is not Earth-shattering and is worse than Gibson by a half yard.

These stats do matter but the most important stat is winning. Now the defense‘s job is to prevent the other team from scoring and the offense’s job is to score. TH is averaging 22.4 PPG and CW averaged 17.

The offense can affect the defense’s ability to prevent the other team from scoring. For example, TH is averaging 1 turnover per game and is getting sacked just under twice per game. CW averaged just over 1 turnover per game but was sacked nearly four times a game losing twice as many yards. This kills the offense and puts the defense in bad positions.

You wont recognize these facts. The TEAM plays better for TH than it does with CW because CW is not a leader and sucks balls.

 

[gkekoa]

this is the first message you recognized it. The defense is better b/c of the turnovers which we didn't get with CW. You can blame CW all you want. TH has made plays but the reason why we are winning I already posted. Yes the olinie is better Turner is playing a lot better and the arrvbal of larsen is better than Nick Martin. Robinson is a good short yardage back. We have a good one two punch there. Yes Robinson make a difference in the offense. The fact I have to say this is hilarious. We are scoring more b/c the defense is turning the ball over giving TH and the offense more opportunities. Im comparing QB to QB.

The turnover stat is the first FACT you have listed. The defense is better is part because of turnovers. The defense is also giving up fewer PPG. Now why do you suppose the defense has improved so dramatically?

We are winning because we are scoring more points and giving up fewer points. Why are these things happening with TH and not CW?

You claim the OL is better. Give me some proof of this. I find it funny that you show one below average OL replacing another below average OL as the reason the entire OL has improved.

Compare QB to QB fairly then. The best metric is scoring. TH is averaging 22.4 PPG and CW averaged 17 PPG. If you think that is because of turnovers, then you are completely delusional. The team forced two turnovers against Chicago, one of which led to a monstrous 6 yard TD drive, and CW only scored 12 in the game.

It is funny how the entire team improved, at every position, as the QB position got worse (according to you). Everything changed when TH took over for CW. It would be interesting to see your excuses if we went back to CW and started playing like shit again. It is OK. I expect TH will get hurt at some point and you will get your red-headed love child back in.

 

[skinsdad62]

The turnover stat is the first FACT you have listed. The defense is better is part because of turnovers. The defense is also giving up fewer PPG. Now why do you suppose the defense has improved so dramatically?

We are winning because we are scoring more points and giving up fewer points. Why are these things happening with TH and not CW?

You claim the OL is better. Give me some proof of this. I find it funny that you show one below average OL replacing another below average OL as the reason the entire OL has improved.

Compare QB to QB fairly then. The best metric is scoring. TH is averaging 22.4 PPG and CW averaged 17 PPG. If you think that is because of turnovers, then you are completely delusional. The team forced two turnovers against Chicago, one of which led to a monstrous 6 yard TD drive, and CW only scored 12 in the game.

It is funny how the entire team improved, at every position, as the QB position got worse (according to you). Everything changed when TH took over for CW. It would be interesting to see your excuses if we went back to CW and started playing like shit again. It is OK. I expect TH will get hurt at some point and you will get your red-headed love child back in.

Dean doesn’t like Falco because he had multiple orgasms when we traded stupidly for wince .

Falco winning makes the trade even dumber and backs up my statement that we would have been at the same place without wince

now. Dean feels like the strong swimming sperm cell hoping to fertilize the egg only to find out it was a hand job

 

[Sportster 72]

The defense has been the key. It is easy for anyone to see.

Win at Indy - a great catch on a YOLO ball to Terry Mac
Win in Philly - defense for quite a few yards 49 rushes, 3 or 4 Philly TOs
Win in Houston - pick 6, D that gave up less than 150 yards

Believe me, I am not bitching. A win is a win is a win. I am not getting in the QB controversy because neither has played all that well. As long as they are winning with Heinicke he should continue to start.

JDR and the defense are carrying the team at the moment.

 

[skinsdad62]

The defense has been the key. It is easy for anyone to see.

Win at Indy - a great catch on a YOLO ball to Terry Mac
Win in Philly - defense for quite a few yards 49 rushes, 3 or 4 Philly TOs
Win in Houston - pick 6, D that gave up less than 150 yards

Believe me, I am not bitching. A win is a win is a win. I am not getting in the QB controversy because neither has played all that well. As long as they are winning with Heinicke he should continue to start.

JDR and the defense are carrying the team at the moment.

There is no controversy, just what I have stated before , the wince trade was a fiasco , and we would be right here without the trade .

falco is a backup and wince is a borderline starter in decline

yea the defense is carrying the team for now but you say it with conviction and truth while one poster uses it to besmirch one qb because his messiah didn’t deliver on what said poster said he would and rather then own it he makes excuses and changes values to suit his BS

I don’t forget or let go of that crap when said posters agues with that intensity and isn’t faithful to his alleged core values he established himself

you are right about the defense

 

[Sportster 72]

There is no controversy, just what I have stated before , the wince trade was a fiasco , and we would be right here without the trade .

falco is a backup and wince is a borderline starter in decline

yea the defense is carrying the team for now but you say it with conviction and truth while one poster uses it to besmirch one qb because his messiah didn’t deliver on what said poster said he would and rather then own it he makes excuses and changes values to suit his BS

I don’t forget or let go of that crap when said posters agues with that intensity and isn’t faithful to his alleged core values he established himself

you are right about the defense

I know your position dad and do not disagree. It was a lot to give up for a guy who they didn't want. Sadly Washington has done that for years. I also know a lot of this conversation is ignite by one or two people here.

I guess it makes me a wonder a bit why everyone is going on and on about the QBs when that is not where games are being won or lost. What the team and fans should want from TH is a game manager. Don't screw it up, do just enough to win. Like I said ... 70s football, play defense and run the ball. Don't make big mistakes at the QB position.

 

[gkekoa]

The defense has been the key. It is easy for anyone to see.

Win at Indy - a great catch on a YOLO ball to Terry Mac
Win in Philly - defense for quite a few yards 49 rushes, 3 or 4 Philly TOs
Win in Houston - pick 6, D that gave up less than 150 yards

Believe me, I am not bitching. A win is a win is a win. I am not getting in the QB controversy because neither has played all that well. As long as they are winning with Heinicke he should continue to start.

JDR and the defense are carrying the team at the moment.

I agree that the defense is the better unit but maybe you can answer my question then. What has been the difference on defense since we switched QBs?

 

[Sportster 72]

I agree that the defense is the better unit but maybe you can answer my question then. What has been the difference on defense since we switched QBs?

I do not attribute anything that the defense is doing to either QB.

The D got rid of Jackson, more Forrest has helped. Picking up Ridgeway and his play has helped. The DLine has been more dominant, the return of Kam Curl was big. JDR changed from running a lot of straight zone to zone match and the D has played that well.

 

[deanpet21]

Wentz didnt get the breaks that TH got…. WWWAAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Wentz got three years of breaks and sucked moose dong everywhere he went.

TH made the lost of his breaks and Wentz did not.

im comparing this year. wow.

 

[deanpet21]

The turnover stat is the first FACT you have listed. The defense is better is part because of turnovers. The defense is also giving up fewer PPG. Now why do you suppose the defense has improved so dramatically?

We are winning because we are scoring more points and giving up fewer points. Why are these things happening with TH and not CW?

You claim the OL is better. Give me some proof of this. I find it funny that you show one below average OL replacing another below average OL as the reason the entire OL has improved.

Compare QB to QB fairly then. The best metric is scoring. TH is averaging 22.4 PPG and CW averaged 17 PPG. If you think that is because of turnovers, then you are completely delusional. The team forced two turnovers against Chicago, one of which led to a monstrous 6 yard TD drive, and CW only scored 12 in the game.

It is funny how the entire team improved, at every position, as the QB position got worse (according to you). Everything changed when TH took over for CW. It would be interesting to see your excuses if we went back to CW and started playing like shit again. It is OK. I expect TH will get hurt at some point and you will get your red-headed love child back in.

you are not comparing qb-qb. They put the stat up during the game yesterday. IS TH makes plays? yes. So did Wentz. You say he sucks which isnt true. DJ put a stat on here comparing QB ratings. They are similar or a little better from Wentz. Sure the team is playing for TH. Its so obvious they are stepping up now. This leadership thing is bullshit and you know it. Not one report from training camp or early season that said Wentz was a bad leader.

 

[deanpet21]

There is no controversy, just what I have stated before , the wince trade was a fiasco , and we would be right here without the trade .

falco is a backup and wince is a borderline starter in decline

yea the defense is carrying the team for now but you say it with conviction and truth while one poster uses it to besmirch one qb because his messiah didn’t deliver on what said poster said he would and rather then own it he makes excuses and changes values to suit his BS

I don’t forget or let go of that crap when said posters agues with that intensity and isn’t faithful to his alleged core values he established himself

you are right about the defense

im saying the same thing as sportster. gk wouldn't acknowledge it. Has nothing to do about preference at QB

 

[Breed]

Wentz had games of 8, 10, 17, 7, and 12 points. Somehow we got a win in the 12 point performance. The defense, as good as it has been, has only held two opponents under 17 points. With Wentz at QB, we can’t score enough to win with great defense. Wentz takes horrible sacks and cannot lead a team.

You say TH does not make the team play better but the facts do not back that statement up. The only difference between the Chicago/GB game of any note is TH over CW. TH makes this team better if we are comparing this team with CW playing. I am not saying TH is a starting QB…I am saying he is a better QB than CW.

What facts are those?

In the Commanders news thread dad posted some metrics which in some ways seem very odd. Page 85 post 1486 if you care to take a gander. Those aren't facts though. What is a fact is that after today's game. In almost every metric Wentz is outperforming Taylor. Wentz has a better comp%, more passing yards per game, a better TD%, a lower INT%, and an overall better rating.

I'm not saying Wentz is the better option or better QB either. Other than a big arm and his size I see no advantages, physical or otherwise that Wentz has over Taylor particularly when it comes to intangibles. And big arms are grossly overrated if an attribute like accuracy isn't present. I've advocated since jump street that RR engaged in an unnecessary trade and gave up too much in capital draft-wise n monetary-wise for Wentz. Is the team playing better with Taylor at QB? Yeah, they are, the play calling and coaching has been better as well. Can't remember exactly who it was, @kbso83432 I think that said since Jackson was benched the secondary has gotten their shit together. Payne is ballin. he's also playing for a huge contract, if not with the Skins, another team. Sweat, the same thing. Jamin is getting a handle on what he needs to do. A lotta that has coincided with Taylor starting. So yes, in that sense the team is playing better with Taylor. No arguement from me. Does Taylor make players better than they are though. Able to do things that w/o him playing they would be incapable of doing. No, he does not. No player does that. That's what I'm talking about. If anything, catches like the one Samuel had against Minn or TM had against Indy make Taylor look better or make his stats look better is more to the point.

To use another argument conncerning QBs and which one is better. Dak Prescott and Cooper Rush. Dak is considered the better or more physically gifted QB of the two. Yet the Cpwboys have a better W/L record this year with Rush under center. Why is that? There is an opinion that the rest of the Cowboy team and coaches stepped up their game believing that was necessary to help win games with Rush at QB. Maybe instead of Taylor making coaches coach better and players play better. The coaches and players themselves felt it necessary to up their game to help Taylor win games.

 

[gkekoa]

I do not attribute anything that the defense is doing to either QB.

The D got rid of Jackson, more Forrest has helped. Picking up Ridgeway and his play has helped. The DLine has been more dominant, the return of Kam Curl was big. JDR changed from running a lot of straight zone to zone match and the D has played that well.

I agree. The offense does not attribute to how the defense is playing but the offense does put the defense in positions to succeed or fail.

Finally, somebody tries to explain the defensive difference with some very good points. I would say the biggest difference is Curl but I have always been a fan. Now let me ask how much the defense has actually improved by pointing out some things.

JAX- the defense allowed 22 points and Jax averages 21.5. This looks like an average performance but let’s look at what the offense did to the defense. After the defense gave up a 5.5 minute FG drive in the second half, the offense proceeded to have an interception drive of four plays lasting less than 2 minutes. The defense stepped up and held Jax to a FG but on the very next offensive snap, Wentz threw a pick that led to an 11 yard TD drive. An 11 yard TD I’d not on the defense…that is on the offense.

DET- the defense played poorly no doubt; however, can we gleam any ideas why? The Lions have scored 35 against PHI, 45 against Seattle, 27 against Dolphins, 31 against Chicago, and 31 against NYG. So let’s look at our game. Our first five possessions consisted of 4 three and outs and a two play safety. Do you think the defense may have been a little tired? Once we got a first down, the defense made the Lions punt. Then our next series, we got a first down and the Lions punted. The offense did not score in the first half against the Lions and we were down 22-0.

PHI- we held the Eagles to 24 and they average over 26. Now let’s look at the game facts. After giving up a FG on a 3+ minute drive, Wentz fumbled on the second play and gave the ball up on the 24. This led to a TD. Then the defense gave up back to back TDs to end the half; however, the offense only mustered one first down on during that time. The Eagles led 24-0 at the half. The Eagles ended the game with 24 points and our first score was by the defense. Wentz did not score until the 1:55 point in the game.

Dal- Dallas scored 25, which is their average game. Now let’s look into the game. Other than the offense only scoring 10 points, I can’t point at them too much other than the interception on our own 26 that led to a FG.

Titans scored 21but only average 19. our offense started the game with consecutive three and outs, then like clockwork, gave up a TD. The offense did not hurt the defense too badly in this game but did throw the pick to end it.

Chicago- the defense held them to 7 points. Enough said.


Has the defense been better since TH took over? The obvious answer is yes. Does the offense not putting the defense in bad situations help make the defense play better. Obviously. So just how much better has the defense played. I contend the defense was not horrible at the beginning of the season, and had CW not been a disgrace to the position, our record in the first six games would have been just slightly better at 3-3.