Game Thread: 7.20 Lumber @ Scum

[msgkings322]

Shhhh, don't say that so loud! Other GMs may be listening. We need to downplay, you know, kick the tires, act casual, like we're looking but not desperate.

If any GMs are listening to what we have to say here they won't have their jobs long.

 

[msgkings322]

But one can hope.

 

[LHG]

Are you saying it sounds like . . . torture?

 

[LHG]

If any GMs are listening to what we have to say here they won't have their jobs long.

Or way ahead of the curve. Following us on this forum will be the next moneyball.

 

[msgkings322]

Or way ahead of the curve. Following us on this forum will be the next moneyball.

 

[Robotech]

Fucking shite. Rogers is a great BP arm, but when he’s off, he’s hot fucking garbage. No I’m between with him.

I think he's prone to this because he doesn't miss bats. If a typical late inning reliever is off, he might still be able to get through it by using his velocity and stuff to get strikeouts.

 

[msgkings322]

I think he's prone to this because he doesn't miss bats. If a typical late inning reliever is off, he might still be able to get through it by using his velocity and stuff to get strikeouts.

Hence not a closer. Kapler misused him.

 

[pachyderm]

dammit

 

[SF11704]

Hence not a closer. Kapler misused him.

This I think is the core of our BP issues. IMHO we also need a good and trusted pitching coach. I haven't trusted Kapler's pitching decisions from the very beginning. If I remember correctly it was his decision to put Coontz (spelling) in the most important game of the year last season with everything on the line. At that time Coontz had given up 17 runs in his last 14 innings of relief. Never understood why he did that and why he also left him in as long as he did. I feel the same way now. Rogers is a pure contact pitcher. That is his strength. When a pitcher like that throws 8 straight balls you need to pull him. Something isn't right. This is a contact pitcher! He's not a closer.

In the STL series he pinch hits for Ruff (who had a HR earlier) and than allows Toc to bat for himself two batters later. What is the logic behind that move? At what point do they realize that Toc is not having a positive influence on this team.

I don't find games like this exciting. I find them frustrating. We blew a 5 run lead in the process.
It's easy to keep repeating that we have the BRIB and that soothes some of the pain. But ... we could easily have another 5 more wins if the pen could perform as expected. BRIB will not mean anything when the playoffs begin. You can't let games slip away from you in the playoffs. There may not be a tomorrow to make up for it.

 

[msgkings322]

This I think is the core of our BP issues. IMHO we also need a good and trusted pitching coach. I haven't trusted Kapler's pitching decisions from the very beginning. If I remember correctly it was his decision to put Coontz (spelling) in the most important game of the year last season with everything on the line. At that time Coontz had given up 17 runs in his last 14 innings of relief. Never understood why he did that and why he also left him in as long as he did. I feel the same way now. Rogers is a pure contact pitcher. That is his strength. When a pitcher like that throws 8 straight balls you need to pull him. Something isn't right. This is a contact pitcher! He's not a closer.

In the STL series he pinch hits for Ruff (who had a HR earlier) and than allows Toc to bat for himself two batters later. What is the logic behind that move? At what point do they realize that Toc is not having a positive influence on this team.

I don't find games like this exciting. I find them frustrating. We blew a 5 run lead in the process.
It's easy to keep repeating that we have the BRIB and that soothes some of the pain. But ... we could easily have another 5 more wins if the pen could perform as expected. BRIB will not mean anything when the playoffs begin. You can't let games slip away from you in the playoffs. There may not be a tomorrow to make up for it.

You're not gonna ever be 5 games over BRIB with this team
This is all house money
You're gonna lose 60 and some of those you will lose because of the pen
Would we have won if he didn't flip the 8th and 9th inning guys? Maybe. But there have been games we won we should have lost too.
Just gotta stay philosophical about it

 

[SF11704]

You're not gonna ever be 5 games over BRIB with this team
This is all house money
You're gonna lose 60 and some of those you will lose because of the pen
Would we have won if he didn't flip the 8th and 9th inning guys? Maybe. But there have been games we won we should have lost too.
Just gotta stay philosophical about it

While I understand what you are saying I don't agree that this is all about house money. Through 60% of the season we've won 59 games. That's our money now.. If we play .500 ball the rest of the way we end at 93 and 69. For me that's a playoff spot. Since the AS break we have lost 3 games. The pen owns 2 of these losses.
I think Kapler has done a good job with leadership and team dynamics .... not so sure about some of his in game decisions though. He has always been critized about how he handles pitchers. I still think he relies on certain people no matter what the statistics or the situation tells him.

My issue with the handling of Rogers was that he is a pure contact pitcher. He ALWAYS throws strikes. Yesterday he missed with his first 8 pitches. That should have been a clear sign that something isn't quite right. Just don't think he handled that exactly right. Rogers was clearly struggling. Badly.

For me .... I'm past the concept of 'house money' at this time. I'm fully in for the playoffs. All money is on the table.. Losses like yesterday are just draining for me. Every loss is draining ... but yesterday was a little tougher to handle.

Maybe this is what TORTURE is all about!!!!!

 

[tzill]

Gotta win these games where you get a gift and Muncy and Turner leave. This game is 100% on the BP.

90 percent Brebbia. 10 percent Rogers.

 

[tzill]

I we can split, I'll be happy. If we take the next 2, I'll be shocked and awed!

We had the split. Brebbia pissed it away./

 

[tzill]

You're not gonna ever be 5 games over BRIB with this team
This is all house money
You're gonna lose 60 and some of those you will lose because of the pen
Would we have won if he didn't flip the 8th and 9th inning guys? Maybe. But there have been games we won we should have lost too.
Just gotta stay philosophical about it

12 CPBS now. Twelve. Yearly average is six. Two years worth in half a season. That’s just Phuking AWFUL and not the “usual excellence“ or whatever bullshit is used to obfuscate.

If the bullpen were even average in these situations this year, we’d have 8 more wins. We’d be so far out in front it wouldn’t matter. Yet, here we are. You can “BRIB” it all you want but we have left so many wins on the table its unbelieveable. I agree with SF, the bullpen is a shame.

Now, get off our lawns.

 

[LHG]

This I think is the core of our BP issues. IMHO we also need a good and trusted pitching coach. I haven't trusted Kapler's pitching decisions from the very beginning. If I remember correctly it was his decision to put Coontz (spelling) in the most important game of the year last season with everything on the line. At that time Coontz had given up 17 runs in his last 14 innings of relief. Never understood why he did that and why he also left him in as long as he did. I feel the same way now. Rogers is a pure contact pitcher. That is his strength. When a pitcher like that throws 8 straight balls you need to pull him. Something isn't right. This is a contact pitcher! He's not a closer.

In the STL series he pinch hits for Ruff (who had a HR earlier) and than allows Toc to bat for himself two batters later. What is the logic behind that move? At what point do they realize that Toc is not having a positive influence on this team.

I don't find games like this exciting. I find them frustrating. We blew a 5 run lead in the process.
It's easy to keep repeating that we have the BRIB and that soothes some of the pain. But ... we could easily have another 5 more wins if the pen could perform as expected. BRIB will not mean anything when the playoffs begin. You can't let games slip away from you in the playoffs. There may not be a tomorrow to make up for it.

You're not gonna ever be 5 games over BRIB with this team
This is all house money
You're gonna lose 60 and some of those you will lose because of the pen
Would we have won if he didn't flip the 8th and 9th inning guys? Maybe. But there have been games we won we should have lost too.
Just gotta stay philosophical about it

12 CPBS now. Twelve. Yearly average is six. Two years worth in half a season. That’s just Phuking AWFUL and not the “usual excellence“ or whatever bullshit is used to obfuscate.

If the bullpen were even average in these situations this year, we’d have 8 more wins. We’d be so far out in front it wouldn’t matter. Yet, here we are. You can “BRIB” it all you want but we have left so many wins on the table its unbelieveable. I agree with SF, the bullpen is a shame.

Now, get off our lawns.

I find myself somewhere between msgkings and tzill on the bullpen. I do think tzill is too harsh on their performance but I cannot get as excited about their performances as msg.
The problem, in my mind, with last night, is that once Rogers walked the first two batters, the game was over. Sure, Kapler could have yanked him after he got the first out but who would come in at that point? McGee was already used. Jay Jackson has been stellar since his recall but if he gave up that gopher ball, everyone would have been questioning why he was in the game. I'm not sure I would question Kapler's initial decision to bring McGee in the 8th inning. He is trying to go by matchups and two of the three batters for the Dodgers' half of the 8th were lefties. And the move worked. The problem is Rogers had a rare meltdown.
And by the way, there aren't a whole lot of good closers on the market. Kimbrel is really the only one and maybe Rogers' brother (f the Angels decide to sell, then Raisel Iglesias may become available but he has hardly been good this year). But even Rogers isn't being used as a regular closer any more by the Twins. The team may land a reliever or two but its going to take a lot of capital to get probably the only really good closer that can be found. We may well have to go through the regular season, and the playoffs, with a lack of traditional closer.

 

[msgkings322]

I find myself somewhere between msgkings and tzill on the bullpen. I do think tzill is too harsh on their performance but I cannot get as excited about their performances as msg.
The problem, in my mind, with last night, is that once Rogers walked the first two batters, the game was over. Sure, Kapler could have yanked him after he got the first out but who would come in at that point? McGee was already used. Jay Jackson has been stellar since his recall but if he gave up that gopher ball, everyone would have been questioning why he was in the game. I'm not sure I would question Kapler's initial decision to bring McGee in the 8th inning. He is trying to go by matchups and two of the three batters for the Dodgers' half of the 8th were lefties. And the move worked. The problem is Rogers had a rare meltdown.
And by the way, there aren't a whole lot of good closers on the market. Kimbrel is really the only one and maybe Rogers' brother (f the Angels decide to sell, then Raisel Iglesias may become available but he has hardly been good this year). But even Rogers isn't being used as a regular closer any more by the Twins. The team may land a reliever or two but its going to take a lot of capital to get probably the only really good closer that can be found. We may well have to go through the regular season, and the playoffs, with a lack of traditional closer.

Well yeah, the mistake happened even before Rogers came in. He's not a closer. That pen meltdown is on Brebbia (who just isn't working out) and Kapler.

My take isn't that different from tzill's actually. It's just updated. Things do change and this bullpen is not the pen from April and May, even with last night's mistakes.

There's still 2 1/2 months to get the pen ready for the playoffs. By August I expect we'll have new names in there and Brebbia will be gone. Hopefully a 'horse' closer, which is all we need, we have plenty to fill in the other innings.

I'm just never going to stop enjoying this team and this run, unexpected but very real. I just don't understand the anger some fans have after every loss.

 

[Stokes1931]

That Sherfy guy has looked good for the Dogs, wonder if we could get him?

 

[LHG]

That Sherfy guy has looked good for the Dogs, wonder if we could get him?

Maybe package him with Bickford? He looks good too.

 

[msgkings322]

Maybe package him with Bickford? He looks good too.

Honestly I'm a little bummed we still need a closer. Because a lot of buyers are looking for that. Getting a Kimbrel type will cost a LOT. But do we want the pen fixed or not?

 

[LHG]

Honestly I'm a little bummed we still need a closer. Because a lot of buyers are looking for that. Getting a Kimbrel type will cost a LOT. But do we want the pen fixed or not?

And getting a Kimbrel type is literally getting Kimbrel. Look around at the market, who else is available that even comes close to that type of closer.