Current HOF players

[Tapey]

Well come on man that's a stupid comp . And even your stupid comp points to Ryan being better if you exclude his best season ( and that graphic excludes last seasons numbers as well ) . If you think Ryan isn't very good that's your prerrogative . Doesn't change anything I've said in this thread .

He's going to end up top 5 all time in yards and TDs, with excellent postseason numbers , at least 1 mvp and 1 SB appearance . Those are minimum . That minimum is getting anyone in . Obviously if he gets Alex Smithed next year it's a different debate

I mean if it was the hall of very good then sure hes a shoe in, but hes not sniffing the hall of fame.

Do you know who else puts up pretty good number has an mvp and a super ball appearance? Cam Newton, so I guess by your standards Newton is on track to go into the HOF

 

[Tapey]

You make a valid point. However, I don't think it holds up upon further examination. (Those numbers are also from a year ago... Ryan boosted his career numbers last year in a rather noticeable fashion)

IMO, what clearly separates Ryan from Dalton is the caliber of play he's reached. He has had a handful seasons where he's played at an elite or near elite level. He won an MVP and reached a Super Bowl. He has also seen post-season success. Ryan's career numbers regress towards Dalton's due to a few down years. His career has been more volatile and roller coaster-ish. However, he has undoubtedly seen a lot more success than Dalton.

Dalton has managed steadily to hover around average to slightly above average on a consistent basis. Far less impressive than what Ryan has done.

Hey all I'm saying is Ryan deserves to be in the Hall of Very good, not hof

 

[richig07]

u gotta win to get in the HOF, theres jim kelly, marino, moon, jurgensen, one more im forgetting in there without a superbowl everyone else won

plus they dont take 12 qb's from an era

Warren Moon is the one you are forgetting.

That's a lot of QB's dude... There's 19 HOF QB's from the SB era. Which also includes those who were a mere shell of their former selves in the late 60's and early 70's. 5 of them didn't win a SB. Meaning that 1 in 3.8 HOF QB's from the SB era have not won a SB. In no way do you "have to win" one.

Of course Rivers gets in. Don't be silly.

 

[Battlelyon]

Donald is already a hall of famer? As in, if he retired tomorrow? I don't know about that. 5 fantastic seasons gets you close... but I wouldn't be necessarily certain about it as to include him with those other names. You almost have to include Mack then as well. Their numbers are very similar over 5 seasons.

Yes, Mack and Donald have similar numbers which makes that more impressive for a defensive tackle. Nobody gets doubled and tripled team as much as Donald and its not close. Mack also has one less pro bowl, 1st team All Pro and DPOY award.

Not to mention, no DT in history has a better resume than Donald in their first five seasons nor 20+ sacks

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Explain what you believe Rivers has done that Ryan hasnt already surpassed or is almost certain to surpass. Seriously .

Rivers has a career YPA .3 higher than Ryan for one...

Some of y'all really like underrating Rivers.

 

[richig07]

Hey all I'm saying is Ryan deserves to be in the Hall of Very good, not hof

We agree. As it stands, he's the NFL's equivalent to a Paul Konerko... or maybe not that since Konerko led a team to a World Series ring. However, you get the point and I digress. 440 HR's 2500 hits... a couple of MVP caliber seasons, but never was he in the conversation as being the league's best hitter.

That's how I see Ryan unless he finishes his career with a boom. I just think he's rather clearly better than Dalton, is all.

Also, I roll my eyes at whenever a fan touts a QB from the past 10-15 years as being "great" because they're top 5 or top 10 all-time in rating, yardage or TD's. No shit... Those lists will soon be almost exclusive to players from the mid-00's and onward. There's mediocre QB's from this decade who are either on all-time lists in those areas or will be. Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman are top 40 in all-time QB Rating still... I am fairly certain. Dalton will finish high on these lists as well.

It's about how you measure up to your contemporary counterparts. No sport fluctuates more with it's statistics than football. Hell... the majority of QB's in the HOF from pre-1980's had more INT's than TD's. lol. How can you compare that to the 2010's?

 

[rmilia1]

Rivers has a career YPA .3 higher than Ryan for one...

Some of y'all really like underrating Rivers.

I like Rivers and think he's got a shot to make the Hall but there's very few stats, personal accomplishments or team results he's likely to finish ahead of Ryan in .That's not a slam on him , it's just the reality

 

[Schmoopy1000]

you know several pages ago, when there was an argument of Ryan or Rivers. The guy arguing for Ryan made the better argument. I personally dont think either get in as of right now. if Ryan continues to get in playoffs & do well, he does have the League MVP in his pocket. Both are fringe candidates. Rivers at this point I think has to get in a superbowl & play well at very least, but most likely has to win one.
If Ryan leads his team to another Superbowl & simply plays well. I can see him getting in. Not 1st ballot or anything silly like that. Right or wrong, once you have the stats & some of these voters look at the resume. Couple superbowls & league MVP. he would get in. Everyone playing QB thats ahead of him will already be in. (Brady, Brees, Rodgers)

Now if he Struggles to get in the playoffs his last few years. He wont even be considered.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

I like Rivers and think he's got a shot to make the Hall but there's very few stats, personal accomplishments or team results he's likely to finish ahead of Ryan in .That's not a slam on him , it's just the reality

Yeah, Matt Ryan throws the ball a metric fuckton. Within 600 attempts of each other despite a 4 year head start for Rivers.

 

[rmilia1]

We agree. As it stands, he's the NFL's equivalent to a Paul Konerko... or maybe not that since Konerko led a team to a World Series ring. However, you get the point and I digress. 440 HR's 2500 hits... a couple of MVP caliber seasons, but never was he in the conversation as being the league's best hitter.

That's how I see Ryan unless he finishes his career with a boom. I just think he's rather clearly better than Dalton, is all.

Also, I roll my eyes at whenever a fan touts a QB from the past 10-15 years as being "great" because they're top 5 or top 10 all-time in rating, yardage or TD's. No shit... Those lists will soon be almost exclusive to players from the mid-00's and onward. There's mediocre QB's from this decade who are either on all-time lists in those areas or will be. Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman are top 40 in all-time QB Rating still... I am fairly certain. Dalton will finish high on these lists as well.

It's about how you measure up to your contemporary counterparts. No sport fluctuates more with it's statistics than football. Hell... the majority of QB's in the HOF from pre-1980's had more INT's than TD's. lol. How can you compare that to the 2010's?

Even if that's true ( which it is ) finishing top 5 all time is still indicative of being top 2-3 in an era of great QBs. It'd be different if I was saying he was a lock now at top 12. I'm not saying that though

 

[rmilia1]

Yeah, Matt Ryan throws the ball a metric fuckton. Within 600 attempts of each other despite a 4 year head start for Rivers.

I would've rather had LT than Matt throwing that much lol

 

[Fountain City Blues]

Things Rivers leads Ryan in

TD%
Y/A
AY/A
NY/A
ANY/A

Ryan

INT%
Sack%
Rushing

 

[Tapey]

We agree. As it stands, he's the NFL's equivalent to a Paul Konerko... or maybe not that since Konerko led a team to a World Series ring. However, you get the point and I digress. 440 HR's 2500 hits... a couple of MVP caliber seasons, but never was he in the conversation as being the league's best hitter.

That's how I see Ryan unless he finishes his career with a boom. I just think he's rather clearly better than Dalton, is all.

Also, I roll my eyes at whenever a fan touts a QB from the past 10-15 years as being "great" because they're top 5 or top 10 all-time in rating, yardage or TD's. No shit... Those lists will soon be almost exclusive to players from the mid-00's and onward. There's mediocre QB's from this decade who are either on all-time lists in those areas or will be. Jay Cutler and Josh Freeman are top 40 in all-time QB Rating still... I am fairly certain. Dalton will finish high on these lists as well.

It's about how you measure up to your contemporary counterparts. No sport fluctuates more with it's statistics than football. Hell... the majority of QB's in the HOF from pre-1980's had more INT's than TD's. lol. How can you compare that to the 2010's?

Agreed

 

[richig07]

Yes, Mack and Donald have similar numbers which makes that more impressive for a defensive tackle. Nobody gets doubled and tripled team as much as Donald and its not close. Mack also has one less pro bowl, 1st team All Pro and DPOY award.

Not to mention, no DT in history has a better resume than Donald in their first five seasons nor 20+ sacks

Mack was DPOY in 2016. He's also one of only two players ever to be named all-pro at two positions in one season. So, that basically erases the "one less all-pro" point. He has the same amount of all-pros. Two just came in one year.

I know Donald is doubled a shit ton. Like 70% on pass plays in 2018. I don't know Mack's numbers on that. I do agree that Donald has been a slightly more valuable player to this point. I just don't think 5 great seasons for a defender warrants "Auto HOF" and if it did... I believe Mack also would get that consideration.

What's insane to me is that the Rams nearly snagged Mack last off-season and had both... lol. I can't even fathom what that would be like.

 

[rmilia1]

Things Rivers leads Ryan in

TD%
Y/A
AY/A
NY/A
ANY/A

Ryan

INT%
Sack%
Rushing

And TDs per year , yards per year , better postseason performances , an MVP and a SB appearance lol.

The HoF is stat driven OR you need to be truly transcendent talent wise . There's only 2 truly transcendent talents at QB in the league right now . Rodgers and Mahomes. Everyone else will cone down to accomplishments over a career

 

[Fountain City Blues]

And TDs per year , yards per year , better postseason performances , an MVP and a SB appearance lol.

The HoF is stat driven OR you need to be truly transcendent talent wise . There's only 2 truly transcendent talents at QB in the league right now . Rodgers and Mahomes. Everyone else will cone down to accomplishments over a career

I mean, if you want to argue volume stats matter more to the HOF, feel free to do so. Better QB though? I'll balk at that.

 

[Iggloo]

Obviously, arguments based on stats will have to take into account that most modern NFL QBs amass stats the older players never would have dreamt of due to rules changes and other factors.

Matt Ryan has never, ever been the best QB in the NFL a single season, much less all time. He is an above average, but entirely mediocre NFL QB.

 

[Iggloo]

The same universe where Dan Marino and Dan Fouts are. So... This universe

If you seriously think Ryan is on the level of Fouts or Marino, you are probably 12 years old and never saw those players play.

 

[Fountain City Blues]

If you seriously think Ryan is on the level of Fouts or Marino, you are probably 12 years old and never saw those players play.

Marino if anything should be in GOAT debates. Not... with Ryan.

 

[Schmoopy1000]

What's insane to me is that the Rams nearly snagged Mack last off-season and had both... lol. I can't even fathom what that would be like.

there would have been a lot of this