2018-2019 NBA Regular Season Thread

[Bolts]

 

[bksballer89]

 

[Mecca]

Scoring is just not something the Lakers need from him. The only reason he needs to be able to score is to keep the defense honest from time to time.

IMO, if I imagine the best version of the current Lakers, Lonzo's production in terms of pts/reb/ast would be basically what it already is.

The only difference is he needs to be more efficient with his scoring.

Not for a #2 overall pick.

This is lipstick on a pig.

Is it fair to penalize Lonzo because of where he was drafted?

No.

But, If he was taken where Mitchell was taken, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him.

At #2?

He's in Evan Turner, Margin Williams, Shane Battier territory.

Solid all around, glue guy.

Not a star.

You draft All stars at minimum #2 overall.

@shopson67 said Tatum was the only guy in consideration at that spot.

I disagree.

Fox was in the discussion. But, Magic was locked on Lonzo because of the home town kid narrative and Lonzo's upside.

Even in College, everyone knew Fox would be the better scorer.

But, at least I thought Lonzo would be the better all around player.

I no longer believe that.

There is no question the Lakers would be in much better shape if they had Fox on the roster with Lebron over Lonzo.

Anyone outside of Utah that says they knew what Donovan would become is lying.

So, you can't blame the Lakers for missing on him.

But, Fox is a different story...imo

 

[tlance]

What makes you say that?

I disagree, I think a fast, ball movement offense is exactly what Magic, Luke, and LeBron all want.

In key moments, and at the end of games, of course, you use LeBron's ability to control the game and you can revert to Cleveland offense. But for the rest of the game, I think a fast, moving offense is what they want.

I do think that is what Magic and Walton want. LeBron might say he wants to play fast too. And maybe they aren't there yet. But if they were playing with pace and moving the ball the way they wanted to, I would think Ball's numbers would look a lot better.

But I do think their flow stops at times. Sometimes LeBron intentionally trying to get control of the game (Late game scenarios, etc.) sometimes it is simply teammates deferring to LeBron at random moments. And that isn't bad for the Lakers, but it probably isn't good for Lonzo.

 

[bksballer89]

Not for a #2 overall pick.

This is lipstick on a pig.

Is it fair to penalize Lonzo because of where he was drafted?

No.

But, If he was taken where Mitchell was taken, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him.

At #2?

He's in Evan Turner territory.

Yep.

When you're drafted top 5, I have to think the team who drafted you is expecting you to be a star.

Lonzo is looking like a role player which would have been fine had he been drafted middle of round 1.

 

[tlance]

Not for a #2 overall pick.

This is lipstick on a pig.

Is it fair to penalize Lonzo because of where he was drafted?

No.

But, If he was taken where Mitchell was taken, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him.

At #2?

He's in Evan Turner, Margin Williams, Shane Battier territory.

@shopson67 said Tatum was the only guy in consideration at that spot.

I disagree.

Fox was in the discussion. But, Magic was locked on Lonzo because of the home town kid narrative and Lonzo's upside.

Even in College, everyone knew Fox would be the better scorer.

But, at least I thought Lonzo would be the better all around player.

I no longer believe that.

There is no question the Lakers would be in much better shape if they had Fox on the roster with Lebron over Lonzo.

Anyone outside of Utah that says they knew what Donovan would become is lying.

So, you can't blame the Lakers for missing on him.

But, Fox is a different story...imo

To be honest,

What will Mitchell become?

He was great as a rookie, but he has kind of sucked this year. His efficiency has been awful. His struggles have been the biggest reason for Utah's struggles, IMO. They need him to be their Batman and he just hasn't been able to that consistently enough.

 

[Mecca]

To be honest,

What will Mitchell become?

He was great as a rookie, but he has kind of sucked this year. His efficiency has been awful. His struggles have been the biggest reason for Utah's struggles, IMO. They need him to be their Batman and he just hasn't been able to that consistently enough.

He's been injured.

But, I agree.

He needs to do more than just jacking up shots.

Instead of playing like Carmelo, he needs to emulate the Flash version of Wade.

 

[LAD]

Yes and no. The Lakers don't NEED him to be a scorer so to speak. But they do need him to be able to score at a more efficient rate and score more in certain situations (like when other guys shots are off).

It's similar to Magic with the Showtime Lakers. They didn't need him to score, but they needed to him to be a threat and to be able to provide scoring when needed in certain situations.

Agreed and this was exactly my point.

 

[gordontrue]

Not for a #2 overall pick.

This is lipstick on a pig.

Is it fair to penalize Lonzo because of where he was drafted?

No.

But, If he was taken where Mitchell was taken, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him.

At #2?

He's in Evan Turner, Margin Williams, Shane Battier territory.

Solid all around, glue guy.

Not a star.

You draft All stars at minimum #2 overall.

@shopson67 said Tatum was the only guy in consideration at that spot.

I disagree.

Fox was in the discussion. But, Magic was locked on Lonzo because of the home town kid narrative and Lonzo's upside.

Even in College, everyone knew Fox would be the better scorer.

But, at least I thought Lonzo would be the better all around player.

I no longer believe that.

There is no question the Lakers would be in much better shape if they had Fox on the roster with Lebron over Lonzo.

Anyone outside of Utah that says they knew what Donovan would become is lying.

So, you can't blame the Lakers for missing on him.

But, Fox is a different story...imo

Yeah, that's fair. My post was more on evaluating Lonzo as a fit on the Lakers, not on whether he is living up to being a #2 pick.

 

[flyerhawk]

What makes you say that?

I disagree, I think a fast, ball movement offense is exactly what Magic, Luke, and LeBron all want.

In key moments, and at the end of games, of course, you use LeBron's ability to control the game and you can revert to Cleveland offense. But for the rest of the game, I think a fast, moving offense is what they want.

Lebron has never wanted a fast transition offense in the past. Why would he want that now when he is older?

 

[gordontrue]

I do think that is what Magic and Walton want. LeBron might say he wants to play fast too. And maybe they aren't there yet. But if they were playing with pace and moving the ball the way they wanted to, I would think Ball's numbers would look a lot better.

But I do think their flow stops at times. Sometimes LeBron intentionally trying to get control of the game (Late game scenarios, etc.) sometimes it is simply teammates deferring to LeBron at random moments. And that isn't bad for the Lakers, but it probably isn't good for Lonzo.

Completely agree with all of this. Its a big change for LeBron and as much an adjustement and test of him as it is the rest of the team.

 

[flyerhawk]

I have a question.

Given how well the Twolves have played since they traded Butler and given how average the Spurs have been would Pop have been better off taking a trade of Saric, Covington and change for Kawhi instead of DeRozan?

 

[shopson67]

I disagree.

What would it mean if he was a much better scorer? LBJ wouldn't have to carry so much of the work load AND the defense wouldn't concentrate on LBJ as much either - so essentially it would keep the defense honest. They absolutely need to be able to count on him for scoring.

Similarly, Lebron wouldn't have to handle the ball as much if they deferred that to Lonzo and let him set up the offense, making Lebron more of scorer instead of setting up the offense. That Lonzo CAN do right now, but everyone makes it sound like sacrilege to take the ball out of Lebron's hands ever.

 

[gordontrue]

Lebron has never wanted a fast transition offense in the past. Why would he want that now when he is older?

First, I think he did want it in Cleveland. But they never really got it. Either LeBron wasn't patient/trusting enough or the coaches didn't do their job well enough, or both, but things always evolved into LeBron pounding the rock and controlling every posession. (Which honestly isn't a terrible thing).

In terms of LeBron being older... it might be counter-intuitive but I think a free-flowing transition offense is much less taxing on him than one where LeBron holds the ball, iso-ing and pick-and-rolling every trip down the floor. It also makes keeping LeBrons minutes down MUCH more doable, as we've already seen.

 

[shopson67]

Not for a #2 overall pick.

This is lipstick on a pig.

Is it fair to penalize Lonzo because of where he was drafted?

No.

But, If he was taken where Mitchell was taken, I don't think anyone would have a problem with him.

At #2?

He's in Evan Turner, Margin Williams, Shane Battier territory.

Solid all around, glue guy.

Not a star.

You draft All stars at minimum #2 overall.

@shopson67 said Tatum was the only guy in consideration at that spot.

I disagree.

Fox was in the discussion. But, Magic was locked on Lonzo because of the home town kid narrative and Lonzo's upside.

Even in College, everyone knew Fox would be the better scorer.

But, at least I thought Lonzo would be the better all around player.

I no longer believe that.

There is no question the Lakers would be in much better shape if they had Fox on the roster with Lebron over Lonzo.

Anyone outside of Utah that says they knew what Donovan would become is lying.

So, you can't blame the Lakers for missing on him.

But, Fox is a different story...imo

Drafting Fox at #2 would've been a poor choice as well. If they were to pass on Ball, it should've been for Tatum. If they were to trade down, then Fox comes into play IMO. Tatum>Fox.

 

[gordontrue]

I have a question.

Given how well the Twolves have played since they traded Butler and given how average the Spurs have been would Pop have been better off taking a trade of Saric, Covington and change for Kawhi instead of DeRozan?

Probably better success this season, but if you're thinking long-term, I think you choose DeRozan over those guys.

 

[bksballer89]

I have a question.

Given how well the Twolves have played since they traded Butler and given how average the Spurs have been would Pop have been better off taking a trade of Saric, Covington and change for Kawhi instead of DeRozan?

I'm not sure. I think it works in Minny because they look at Towns as a true #1. I don't think the Spurs feel the same way about LA

 

[msgkings322]

He's likely to lose his explosion to that achilles injury, and who says he wants to leave the Warriors? Sure, he can't get paid there, but he's been a miserable loser up to this point.

I'm not betting on that "if" regardless.

I have more chance of signing with the Warriors next year than Boogie does.

 

[Mecca]

Yeah, that's fair. My post was more on evaluating Lonzo as a fit on the Lakers, not on whether he is living up to being a #2 pick.

Yeah, it's not his fault everyone bought that bullshit Magic and Lavar was spewing.

I'm in the minority.

But, I don't think he fits with Lebron.

He would be better served in the 2nd unit.

Everything that Lonzo does well, LeBron does better.

So, he's redundant.

Any roster that has LeBron on it has expectations.

25 games in, it's pretty clear that Kuz and Hart fit much better with Lebron over Lonzo and Ingram.

If you sign Klay/Kawhi/Durant , those two will be trade bait to thin the herd and get another piece...maybe a Center.

 

[shopson67]

Probably better success this season, but if you're thinking long-term, I think you choose DeRozan over those guys.

I'm not a fan of Derozan. Do the Spurs get to keep Danny Green in this scenario? Also, Poeltl is being ignored here (who has been solid for them) and the Spurs also got a protected 1st.