Is this the end of the Paul Johnson/triple option era at Georgia Tech?

[BoiseStateFan27]

This is the most enthralling discussion about Georgia Tech football I've ever seen on this board, or anywhere really.

 

[NolePride]

GT established themselves as pussies who think they are too good for competitive football years ago.

Chip Granning vs Darwin Holt.

(It was a cheap shot)

 

[4down20]

Chip Granning vs Darwin Holt.

(It was a cheap shot)

Maybe, but it was just another example of what a crybaby their coach was. But I don't think it had anything to do with why they left the conference.

 

[NolePride]

Maybe, but it was just another example of what a crybaby their coach was. But I don't think it had anything to do with why they left the conference.

It may not have been the exact reason why they bolted, but
it was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Bobby Dodd was their coach then. He was pretty capable
coach.

 

[navamind]

No doubt, but Michigan and USC definitely don't have the academic requirements that GT has, from what I've been told. I believe EVERY freshman at GT has to take TRIG...not exceptions.

Stanford, Duke, ND have tough requirements from what I've heard (I would think that USC and Michigan will have no problems getting just about any high end recruit onto their team, as long as they are eligible according to NCAA rules), but it's not like any of those teams have been head and shoulders better than GT over the past 15 years or so. They may have more wins, but GT has won and played in the ACC title game a few times over the past decade. They haven't been awful under PJ, but they don't seem to be going anywhere either.

GT is 77-56 under PJ and Stanford is 101-35 since the beginning of 2008. They're one of the winningest programs in all of CFB over that timespan. Stanford's had one losing season and 8+ wins every other season (including six 10+ win seasons). GT's been to two Orange Bowls under him. Stanford's been to three Rose Bowls, a Fiesta Bowl and an Orange Bowl. Stanford's won three conference titles while GT has one. I'd say they've been head and shoulders above GT.

 

[Deep Creek]

Its not always bad but in cfb your programs appeal can be fleeting. Right now at least GT has a niche. If they go conventional they're pretty much Minnesota or Pitt

Yeah, if you are one of the "lessers" in the big boy conferences and can't get the same Jimmie's and Joe's that the brand names get, it sure seems you have to find a different type niche. Go the Academy route with the triple option. Or go the Standford/Wisconsin O-line/tight end route. Or, go the Mike Leach style and sling it all over the place. The former two control the ball and are easier on your defense. The latter really puts your defense in a bind because they can be on the field a long, long time...but a lot of the skill kids like to play in that style.

 

[xpuctaqpGT]

Here's some thoughts from an actual GT alumnus. I attended GT from 1991 to 1996 and got a degree in Electrical engineering (which I completely ignored and went into teaching).

GT has some distinct negatives.

1. Difficult academics. We offer majors in Engineering, Sciences, Math, Architecture, and Business. There's no journalism majors, or music, or english...or any of the typical "easy" majors. And every single major at Georgia Tech has Calculus as a graduation requirement. If someone has a GT degree, they passed Calc 1 at the minimum.

1A. Related to our limited choice in majors is the very very MALE student body. When I was an undergraduate the school was 85% male, 15% female. It's gotten better since then, but it's still 62% male, 38% female. While I'm sure some athletes at GT (and everywhere else) are gay, for the most part football players want to be in classes with at least some (hopefully) attractive women.

2. Money talks. GT has about 15k undergrads. If you look at everyone who's won a NC since 2000 (18 year span) the lowest undergraduate enrollment was 11k (Miami) and the highest was OSU 45k. Average enrollment for NC winners was about 30k. Average home fields for these teams is somewhere in the 85k seat range. Georgia Tech's stadium holds 55k.
The difference between 15k undergrads and a 55k stadium and 30k undergrads and an 85k stadium is VAST. Other teams have double or more our alumni base for donations. And 85,000-55,000 = 30,000. 30,000 extra seats for every home game is huuuuuge. If you figure that every seat is worth $100 for tickets, parking, food, etc, then 30,000 seats times $100 = $3 million extra per home game. Times 7 home games = $21 million extra to spend per year. $21 million extra pays for some stuff. You can pay the head coach better. You can pay the assistant coach better. You can pay an army of recruiters to travel the country to get the best players available.

Summary: Rough academics, not a lot of women on campus, not a lot of money to spend or spare.

It means we have to kinda "Moneyball" it. If we do everything right we can sometimes be competitive.

Specifically how this all ties in to Paul Johnson. On some level, he's what we can afford. We don't have to worry about UF or Bama or Clemson or OSU coming in and stealing him away from us. On balance, he's done a lot better overall than his predecessor Chan Gailey. We've won an Orange bowl with him. He's gone 3-7 vs UGA. (Gailey went 0-6) We've had a top 10 finish. BUTTTTTTT

Shit gets frustrating. I know we're never going to get top 10 recruiting classes. Or top 20. But I think we should be able to pull an occasional top 30 class. And Paul Johnson never can seem to do that. My biggest overall complaint is that he hasn't been able to leverage the UGA wins, Orange Bowl win, or top 10 finish into a top 30 recruiting class ever. And he's under contract until the end of the 2022 season. He's not really on the hot seat this year (mostly because we can't afford to replace him). But at some point we need to move on.

 

[Deep Creek]

Not all that different than Notre Dame or Stanford ect. Though from my understanding.

Sounds more like Rice to me. Academic institution in a major metroploitan city in a state with a lot of talent.

Biggest difference is GT has 26,000 students. Rice has 7,000.

 

[Deep Creek]

In high school, we actually played a team that used the Single Wing. Weird.

Did you see the bowl game between Baylor and North Carolina a few years ago. That is exactly what Baylor did when they got down to their 4th/5th team QB. Worked pretty well too.

 

[rmilia1]

Here's some thoughts from an actual GT alumnus. I attended GT from 1991 to 1996 and got a degree in Electrical engineering (which I completely ignored and went into teaching).

GT has some distinct negatives.

1. Difficult academics. We offer majors in Engineering, Sciences, Math, Architecture, and Business. There's no journalism majors, or music, or english...or any of the typical "easy" majors. And every single major at Georgia Tech has Calculus as a graduation requirement. If someone has a GT degree, they passed Calc 1 at the minimum.

1A. Related to our limited choice in majors is the very very MALE student body. When I was an undergraduate the school was 85% male, 15% female. It's gotten better since then, but it's still 62% male, 38% female. While I'm sure some athletes at GT (and everywhere else) are gay, for the most part football players want to be in classes with at least some (hopefully) attractive women.

2. Money talks. GT has about 15k undergrads. If you look at everyone who's won a NC since 2000 (18 year span) the lowest undergraduate enrollment was 11k (Miami) and the highest was OSU 45k. Average enrollment for NC winners was about 30k. Average home fields for these teams is somewhere in the 85k seat range. Georgia Tech's stadium holds 55k.
The difference between 15k undergrads and a 55k stadium and 30k undergrads and an 85k stadium is VAST. Other teams have double or more our alumni base for donations. And 85,000-55,000 = 30,000. 30,000 extra seats for every home game is huuuuuge. If you figure that every seat is worth $100 for tickets, parking, food, etc, then 30,000 seats times $100 = $3 million extra per home game. Times 7 home games = $21 million extra to spend per year. $21 million extra pays for some stuff. You can pay the head coach better. You can pay the assistant coach better. You can pay an army of recruiters to travel the country to get the best players available.

Summary: Rough academics, not a lot of women on campus, not a lot of money to spend or spare.

It means we have to kinda "Moneyball" it. If we do everything right we can sometimes be competitive.

Specifically how this all ties in to Paul Johnson. On some level, he's what we can afford. We don't have to worry about UF or Bama or Clemson or OSU coming in and stealing him away from us. On balance, he's done a lot better overall than his predecessor Chan Gailey. We've won an Orange bowl with him. He's gone 3-7 vs UGA. (Gailey went 0-6) We've had a top 10 finish. BUTTTTTTT

Shit gets frustrating. I know we're never going to get top 10 recruiting classes. Or top 20. But I think we should be able to pull an occasional top 30 class. And Paul Johnson never can seem to do that. My biggest overall complaint is that he hasn't been able to leverage the UGA wins, Orange Bowl win, or top 10 finish into a top 30 recruiting class ever. And he's under contract until the end of the 2022 season. He's not really on the hot seat this year (mostly because we can't afford to replace him). But at some point we need to move on.

Great post. On recruiting , some coaches prefer not to have top recruits. I know that sounds crazy but some guys prefer to get guys they can mold or shape into what they need as opposed to getting guys who arent willing to change anything they do. Iowa does this a lot I think our average class ranking over the term of Ferentzs time at iowa is in the mid 40s but we've got more NFL guys than all but like 12 schools and have 5 top 10s tge past 15 years. It's possible to do it without killer recruiting but you really have to have an established program of development

 

[xpuctaqpGT]

Iowa does this a lot I think our average class ranking over the term of Ferentzs time at iowa is in the mid 40s but we've got more NFL guys than all but like 12 schools and have 5 top 10s tge past 15 years. It's possible to do it without killer recruiting but you really have to have an established program of development

I don't normally follow Iowa that closely so let me look into this. Using Rivals.com as reference.

2018 Iowa 40, GT 53
2017 Iowa 40, GT 41
2016 Iowa 42, GT 67
2015 Iowa 58, GT 39
2014 Iowa 59, GT 47

Iowa average 47.8. GT average 49.4.

For some reason I thought Iowa would be in the mid 30's but I was mistaken. As a trend your classes seem to be getting slowly better. Ours are kind of all over the place.

 

[olympicoscar]

Did you see the bowl game between Baylor and North Carolina a few years ago. That is exactly what Baylor did when they got down to their 4th/5th team QB. Worked pretty well too.

No, I didn't.

BTW, I'm old, but I never saw anyone play in leather helmets.

 

[Deep Creek]

No, I didn't.

BTW, I'm old, but I never saw anyone play in leather helmets.

I didn't either. But I did see them play without facemasks and with only the single bar/small double bar facemask.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

This dude has ridden on key victories/occasional big seasons to keep his job at GT for a long time. With two rough losses already this season, and Clemson coming to town on Saturday, is this the beginning of the end of the Paul Johnson era?

I've lived down in Georgia now for 10 years, and it has been amazing to see this guy ride so many highs and lows in keeping his job. He's seen some decent success against Georgia (especially considering his recruiting rankings, and the past 5-7 years in the rivalry), he had owned Clemson up until about 4 years ago, and seems to win enough every few years to get an extension.

Is it time to let PJ go? It's going to be rough getting a good coach to come to GT with their academic requirements, but how much longer do they put up with the highs and lows of this triple threat offense?

I was skeptical of Johnson's offensive schemes working at Tech. Navy was a good fit but I wasn't sure it would work in the ACC. I think for the most part he has had a decent run there but Tech could be much more competitive IMO

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

Did you see the bowl game between Baylor and North Carolina a few years ago. That is exactly what Baylor did when they got down to their 4th/5th team QB. Worked pretty well too.

Its a pretty cool offense to watch if you have a great athlete. I seem to recall Bama doing something like that in the early 90's with Sherman Williams?

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

Here's some thoughts from an actual GT alumnus. I attended GT from 1991 to 1996 and got a degree in Electrical engineering (which I completely ignored and went into teaching).

GT has some distinct negatives.

1. Difficult academics. We offer majors in Engineering, Sciences, Math, Architecture, and Business. There's no journalism majors, or music, or english...or any of the typical "easy" majors. And every single major at Georgia Tech has Calculus as a graduation requirement. If someone has a GT degree, they passed Calc 1 at the minimum.

1A. Related to our limited choice in majors is the very very MALE student body. When I was an undergraduate the school was 85% male, 15% female. It's gotten better since then, but it's still 62% male, 38% female. While I'm sure some athletes at GT (and everywhere else) are gay, for the most part football players want to be in classes with at least some (hopefully) attractive women.

2. Money talks. GT has about 15k undergrads. If you look at everyone who's won a NC since 2000 (18 year span) the lowest undergraduate enrollment was 11k (Miami) and the highest was OSU 45k. Average enrollment for NC winners was about 30k. Average home fields for these teams is somewhere in the 85k seat range. Georgia Tech's stadium holds 55k.
The difference between 15k undergrads and a 55k stadium and 30k undergrads and an 85k stadium is VAST. Other teams have double or more our alumni base for donations. And 85,000-55,000 = 30,000. 30,000 extra seats for every home game is huuuuuge. If you figure that every seat is worth $100 for tickets, parking, food, etc, then 30,000 seats times $100 = $3 million extra per home game. Times 7 home games = $21 million extra to spend per year. $21 million extra pays for some stuff. You can pay the head coach better. You can pay the assistant coach better. You can pay an army of recruiters to travel the country to get the best players available.

Summary: Rough academics, not a lot of women on campus, not a lot of money to spend or spare.

It means we have to kinda "Moneyball" it. If we do everything right we can sometimes be competitive.

Specifically how this all ties in to Paul Johnson. On some level, he's what we can afford. We don't have to worry about UF or Bama or Clemson or OSU coming in and stealing him away from us. On balance, he's done a lot better overall than his predecessor Chan Gailey. We've won an Orange bowl with him. He's gone 3-7 vs UGA. (Gailey went 0-6) We've had a top 10 finish. BUTTTTTTT

Shit gets frustrating. I know we're never going to get top 10 recruiting classes. Or top 20. But I think we should be able to pull an occasional top 30 class. And Paul Johnson never can seem to do that. My biggest overall complaint is that he hasn't been able to leverage the UGA wins, Orange Bowl win, or top 10 finish into a top 30 recruiting class ever. And he's under contract until the end of the 2022 season. He's not really on the hot seat this year (mostly because we can't afford to replace him). But at some point we need to move on.

Awesome post

 

[Eco]

This dude has ridden on key victories/occasional big seasons to keep his job at GT for a long time. With two rough losses already this season, and Clemson coming to town on Saturday, is this the beginning of the end of the Paul Johnson era?

I've lived down in Georgia now for 10 years, and it has been amazing to see this guy ride so many highs and lows in keeping his job. He's seen some decent success against Georgia (especially considering his recruiting rankings, and the past 5-7 years in the rivalry), he had owned Clemson up until about 4 years ago, and seems to win enough every few years to get an extension.

Is it time to let PJ go? It's going to be rough getting a good coach to come to GT with their academic requirements, but how much longer do they put up with the highs and lows of this triple threat offense?

Firstly, didn't know you lived in Atlanta.

Secondly, yes, I hope he's gone soon.

It's GT...not a destination for good to great coaches anyway, so get rid of Johnson, then what?

Derick Dooley? Skip Holtz? Lane Kiffin?

Maybe they could get Calvin Johnson to coach?


Harbaugh may be available in a year if he doesn't start beating a few teams

Still won a natty more recent than UGA.

Yeah, I think so. While GT isn't a brand name in college football, they're located in SEC country and right in downtown Atlanta. I think the right coach could come in and eventually turn it into a pretty good program.

GT have potential. Hell, if Stanford can do it, so can GT from an academic point of view. They just need to get rid of PJ and rebuilding using a real offense.

 

[cmc_rebar]

Still won half of a natty more recent than UGA.

FIFY

 

[olympicoscar]

I didn't either. But I did see them play without facemasks and with only the single bar/small double bar facemask.

Yes, me too. Pretty standard in the 1950's.

 

[PEOPLESCHICKEN]

It just occurred to me that this fine academic institution employed one George O'Leary. Ye of the fake resume and no masters' degree