Gotta say I'm ok with not overpaying players

[Stymietee]

Not quite. We sucked in 2014.

Kirk was here in 2014 and by every account here it was Gruden who stood for Kirk. C'mon man, give Gruden his due!

 

[gkekoa]

Kirk was part of that suckage too, just saying.

Yes he was. He was a part of an unstable QB situation. He solidified the position in 2015.

 

[Sharkinva]

Kirk was here in 2014 and by every account here it was Gruden who stood for Kirk. C'mon man, give Gruden his due!

OH no doubt Gruden does get credit for standing up to Dan and Bruce to start the better QB. Had Gruden not gotten his way, one has to wonder if the team would still be chasing that particular high to this day.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yes he was. He was a part of an unstable QB situation. He solidified the position in 2015.

And now we are as stable as

 

[Stymietee]

Yes he was. He was a part of an unstable QB situation. He solidified the position in 2015.

Yeah, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. So no argument on that score. Point I'm making is that it was Gruden's belief in him that allowed him to be in position to stabilize it to the extent that he did. On that score Gruden made Kirk Cousins, not the other way around. Kirk was the triggerman in Gruden's offense, Gruden game planned, Kirk executed as he did. Trying to make Kirk into more than what he was is a waste of time.

 

[Sharkinva]

Yeah, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. So no argument on that score. Point I'm making is that it was Gruden's belief in him that allowed him to be in position to stabilize it to the extent that he did. On that score Gruden made Kirk Cousins, not the other way around. Kirk was the triggerman in Gruden's offense, Gruden game planned, Kirk executed as he did. Trying to make Kirk into more than what he was is a waste of time.

Trying to minimize him as a player, is equally as pointless. How ever, that has become a bit of an art form around these parts.

 

[Stymietee]

And now we are as stable as

Disagree, I respect your perspective, it's just different than my own. You believe that we are worse at QB and that fair for you to believe that. I say that given what Kirk did that Smith does not and what Smith does and Kirk could not it's a wash. The key to the whole Smith tenure here will be how and what Gruden gets from him through game planning to his strengths, just as he did with Kirk.

 

[Stymietee]

Trying to minimize him as a player, is equally as pointless. How ever, that has become a bit of an art form around these parts.

Who's minimizing him? I see him equally for what he was and wasn't, I don't choose to make him more or less than what he was while here. We don't see him the same way, and, I don't think that your view of him is ever going to change unless Kirk, is no more than or a lot less than Keenum in Minnesota.

 

[Sharkinva]

Disagree, I respect your perspective, it's just different than my own. You believe that we are worse at QB and that fair for you to believe that. I say that given what Kirk did that Smith does not and what Smith does and Kirk could not it's a wash. The key to the whole Smith tenure here will be how and what Gruden gets from him through game planning to his strengths, just as he did with Kirk.

Viewed in a box, completely on its own.. Sure.

But the reality is in my humble opinion, Smiths strengths are directly opposite to what this team needs based on its weaknesses.

UNless we develop a ground game, and a defense that can actually stop some one. Smiths strengths are about the same as Mark Brunells. He wont be the direct reason we lost in most cases, but I dont see him as the reason we win games either. If asked to carry the team as Cousins did, that is directly opposite to his strengths.

So game plan til we are blue in the face to protect the ball and not commit turn overs, but Im not sold that Smith is the guy to even keep us competitive if we are constantly playing catch up, as was the case entirely too many times over the last few seasons.

 

[gkekoa]

Yeah, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. So no argument on that score. Point I'm making is that it was Gruden's belief in him that allowed him to be in position to stabilize it to the extent that he did. On that score Gruden made Kirk Cousins, not the other way around. Kirk was the triggerman in Gruden's offense, Gruden game planned, Kirk executed as he did. Trying to make Kirk into more than what he was is a waste of time.

I would say the Shanahan’s made KC as much as anybody because they had the real faith in him.

KC performed well in Gruden’s offense...or was it McVays?

 

[Stymietee]

Viewed in a box, completely on its own.. Sure.

But the reality is in my humble opinion, Smiths strengths are directly opposite to what this team needs based on its weaknesses.

UNless we develop a ground game, and a defense that can actually stop some one. Smiths strengths are about the same as Mark Brunells. He wont be the direct reason we lost in most cases, but I dont see him as the reason we win games either. If asked to carry the team as Cousins did, that is directly opposite to his strengths.

So game plan til we are blue in the face to protect the ball and not commit turn overs, but Im not sold that Smith is the guy to even keep us competitive if we are constantly playing catch up, as was the case entirely too many times over the last few seasons.

As I said, we disagree on the differences between Kirk and Smith.

 

[Stymietee]

I would say the Shanahan’s made KC as much as anybody because they had the real faith in him.

KC performed well in Gruden’s offense...or was it McVays?

Good point about who's offense it was, but Gruden gets the credit.

BTW: MS had the balls of a goldfish, if his faith was so great, he would have done what Gruden did and stood up for the guy.

Kyle and McVay are modern day HC's and as such get major props from me for what they bring to today's NFL game.

 

[gkekoa]

Good point about who's offense it was, but Gruden gets the credit.

BTW: MS had the balls of a goldfish, if his faith was so great, he would have done what Gruden did and stood up for the guy.

Kyle and McVay are modern day HC's and as such get major props from me for what they bring to today's NFL game.

The OC was Sean McVay. He gets credit for the offense. I don’t see anybody giving Lovie Smith the credit for Cincinatti’s offense whenever Gruden was there.

MS drafted KC in the fourth round because he had no faith in Bruce’s golden boy. That is the ultimate faith. If MS had been given a third year, he probably would have.

I moment MS and KS came here the plan was for Kyle to take over when daddy was done. I gave our FO too much credit then for having a plan. Damn they would have looked smart now.

 

[Stymietee]

The OC was Sean McVay. He gets credit for the offense. I don’t see anybody giving Lovie Smith the credit for Cincinatti’s offense whenever Gruden was there.

MS drafted KC in the fourth round because he had no faith in Bruce’s golden boy. That is the ultimate faith. If MS had been given a third year, he probably would have.

I moment MS and KS came here the plan was for Kyle to take over when daddy was done. I gave our FO too much credit then for having a plan. Damn they would have looked smart now.

1. Different strokes for different folks.

2. Some call it hedging his bet because he did not think the other guy was capable. So, not so much faith as it was fairly good football sense.

3. Agreed, I remember that whole Kyle taking over for Mike thing. I was pulling for Kyle, but (as I wipe the egg off of my face) should have known better.

 

[gkekoa]

1. Different strokes for different folks.

2. Some call it hedging his bet because he did not think the other guy was capable. So, not so much faith as it was fairly good football sense.

3. Agreed, I remember that whole Kyle taking over for Mike thing. I was pulling for Kyle, but (as I wipe the egg off of my face) should have known better.

1- Not really. It is called consistency. You like to credit Gruden with Cincinatti but then you don’t credit McVay in Washington.

2- Drafting a Guy is the ultimate confidence, especially when forced to trade up for a QB at 2.

3- dumb ass Dan.

 

[Stymietee]

1- Not really. It is called consistency. You like to credit Gruden with Cincinatti but then you don’t credit McVay in Washington.

2- Drafting a Guy is the ultimate confidence, especially when forced to trade up for a QB at 2.

3- dumb ass Dan.

1. I don't credit Gruden in Cincy, you did that.

2. Some may see it that way, I don't.

3. Yeah!

 

[gkekoa]

1. I don't credit Gruden in Cincy, you did that.

2. Some may see it that way, I don't.

3. Yeah!

At least we agree on what matters.

 

[Sportster 72]

Good point about who's offense it was, but Gruden gets the credit.

BTW: MS had the balls of a goldfish, if his faith was so great, he would have done what Gruden did and stood up for the guy.

Kyle and McVay are modern day HC's and as such get major props from me for what they bring to today's NFL game.

Actually this makes me wonder what pictures Gruden or SM had of BA and DS. Not only do I think they wanted Griffin to succeed I agree with shark that did not really want Cousin's to succeed. I think they viewed Cousin's as a poke in the eye from MS. I have always thought drafting Cousin's was proof that the Shanahan's did not believe in Griffin and I give Kyle all the credit in the world to find a way to make it work.

 

[Sharkinva]

Actually this makes me wonder what pictures Gruden or SM had of BA and DS. Not only do I think they wanted Griffin to succeed I agree with shark that did not really want Cousin's to succeed. I think they viewed Cousin's as a poke in the eye from MS. I have always thought drafting Cousin's was proof that the Shanahan's did not believe in Griffin and I give Kyle all the credit in the world to find a way to make it work.

@Sportster 72 you do realize this will start another round of what I call dry-bitching right??

 

[ehb5]

If GMSM was "the first real GM of your lifetime," then you haven't been around for very long, have you?

GMSM was here for like a minute. His track record was ok, but it wasn't unbelievable. I would have liked him to stay. He doesn't seem that worse for wear now - running his draft whatever out of his home in the midwest somewhere (Denver, maybe)?

It takes two to tango. If KC didn't want to be here, that's on him. The OTP wants the reason KC isn't here to be about Bruce Allen, which it could be, or it could be - as I CALLED IT LAST SUMMER - about the fact that he's a greedy SOB who wants to make as much money as possible, period.

His fully guaranteed ridiculous contract from the Vikings, that is only 3 years long, which gives him another time to cash in on free agency suggests exactly what I said last summer - that he's in it for the money. Period.

Bruce Allen doesn't seem to be getting in the way of free agents signing here. Alex Smith wanted to be here, and apparently other teams offered more. Richardson wants to be here. Scandrick wanted to be here.

You are, of course, free to subscribe to the "Everything is awful" brand of thinking. Lord knows, misery loves company.

There's plenty to be ok with, with regards to the Redskins.

No I haven't. But plenty long enough to know a thing or two about the skins.

It's not that SM was some super genius who would have fixed everything. It's that he was a real gm who understood basic team building concepts like valuing youth and draft picks. He also wasn' a sellout to ownership. He was a real GM.

There's plenty of blame to go around in the KC situation but a LOT of it falls on Bruce. That's indisputable.

Of course free agents want to be here. Free agents will go anywhere that pays them. No shit. But you have to actually bring in good players to get any credit.

Is there? We're locked into an aging QB who wasn't good enough for his 2 previous teams, have a coach likely on the hot seat, and have done nothing to make me think this roster is actually improving from a year or 2 ago. In a couple years we'll have a new coach and a new QB. Yay.