Redskins are considering tagging Kirk for a trade

[Sharkinva]

Apparently it's a risk that is being considered.

For three years Bruce has been out smarted by Cousins and his agent. What on earth makes any one think that he can manage to do in the next month, what he hasnt been able to do in three years?? Mainly win in a batle of wits with Cousins and his agent.

 

[Stymietee]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that your point is the Guaranteed reference, correct? And you want me to show you anywhere or anytime that a contract , in this case a Tag, once signed is pulled based upon that word guaranteed correct?

 

[Sharkinva]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I believe that your point is the Guaranteed reference, correct? And you want me to show you anywhere or anytime that a contract once signed is pulled based upon that word guaranteed correct?

I want you to show me one instance where a team was simply able to release a player and not have to pay money that was guaranteed in a contract. Because that is what you are saying they could do. You can rescind the tag if its not signed. You can not rescind the guaranteed portion of a contract. If you could, it would pretty much make the Salary cap void.

 

[Stymietee]

For three years Bruce has been out smarted by Cousins and his agent. What on earth makes any one think that he can manage to do in the next month, what he hasnt been able to do in three years?? Mainly win in a batle of wits with Cousins and his agent.

Plain and simple, I don't!...It's not about Kirk anymore, I know that it's difficult for some folks, but Kirk is history here. I have zero faith in Bruce Allen to successfully crossing a street in a school zone on a holiday.

That is NOT what's happening here, the battle of wits with Cousins and his people is over, exhausting all options to improve this team are still on the table, and as dumb as it is, including one last stab at getting more for a league wide valued product.

 

[Sharkinva]

Plain and simple, I don't!...It's not about Kirk anymore, I know that it's difficult for some folks, but Kirk is history here. I have zero faith in Bruce Allen to successfully crossing a street in a school zone on a holiday.

That is NOT what's happening here, the battle of wits with Cousins and his people is over, exhausting all options to improve this team are still on the table, and as dumb as it is, including one last stab at getting more for a league wide valued product.

You ever heard the term a Bird in the hand beats two in the bush??

Right now, provided they dont go all year 2000, we will most likely get a 3rd rounder in 2019.

Tagging him risks getting nothing. And entirely too much has to happen for them to get MORE than the 3rd rounder in 2019. Toss in the fact that at least SOME players will see this as Bruces one last petty attempt, and the potential for harm is much greater than the chance we some how magically get more than the 3rd in 2019.

 

[Stymietee]

I want you to show me one instance where a team was simply able to release a player and not have to pay money that was guaranteed in a contract. Because that is what you are saying they could do. You can rescind the tag if its not signed. You can not rescind the guaranteed portion of a contract. If you could, it would pretty much make the Salary cap void.

Player contracts come with all sorts of riders relating to, health, conduct, good faith and the like. If Bruce Allen is as sleazy as we all agree he is, what makes you think that he won't stoop to invoking one or some of these deal breakers? After all was it NOT YOU who said it was personal?

 

[Stymietee]

You ever heard the term a Bird in the hand beats two in the bush??

Right now, provided they dont go all year 2000, we will most likely get a 3rd rounder in 2019.

Tagging him risks getting nothing. And entirely too much has to happen for them to get MORE than the 3rd rounder in 2019. Toss in the fact that at least SOME players will see this as Bruces one last petty attempt, and the potential for harm is much greater than the chance we some how magically get more than the 3rd in 2019.

Yeah and I've also heard that two birds in the bush are better than one over head.

Again, if they are considering it, then that consideration must include risk.

 

[Stymietee]

You ever heard the term a Bird in the hand beats two in the bush??

Right now, provided they dont go all year 2000, we will most likely get a 3rd rounder in 2019.

Tagging him risks getting nothing. And entirely too much has to happen for them to get MORE than the 3rd rounder in 2019. Toss in the fact that at least SOME players will see this as Bruces one last petty attempt, and the potential for harm is much greater than the chance we some how magically get more than the 3rd in 2019.

 

[Sharkinva]

Player contracts come with all sorts of riders relating to, health, conduct, good faith and the like. If Bruce Allen is as sleazy as we all agree he is, what makes you think that he won't stoop to invoking one or some of these deal breakers? After all was it NOT YOU who said it was personal?

Thats the beauty of the Franchise Tender... there is no out clause. Bruce could try, and yes he is that sleazy. But again, is it worth having other players not want to deal with the team, just so Bruce can say he won??

 

[Stymietee]

Thats the beauty of the Franchise Tender... there is no out clause. Bruce could try, and yes he is that sleazy. But again, is it worth having other players not want to deal with the team, just so Bruce can say he won??

Are you operating under the misguided idea that something has changed since Snyder gained ownership and Bruce was hired?

 

[Sharkinva]

Are you operating under the misguided idea that something has changed since Snyder gained ownership?

IM operating under the fact that the Franchise tag is as simple a contract as there is in the NFL.

There are only three ways out once signed.

1. Negotiate a long term deal
2. Trade said franchised player
3. Said player files retirement papers.

 

[Stymietee]

Thats the beauty of the Franchise Tender... there is no out clause. Bruce could try, and yes he is that sleazy. But again, is it worth having other players not want to deal with the team, just so Bruce can say he won??

You've already answered you own question, Re: "yes he is that sleazy"

 

[Stymietee]

IM operating under the fact that the Franchise tag is as simple a contract as there is in the NFL.

There are only three ways out once signed.

1. Negotiate a long term deal
2. Trade said franchised player
3. Said player files retirement papers.

4. Player dies
5. 2nd team accepts trade under the tag
6. Player's conduct becomes detrimental to team
7. Player refuses to act in "good faith" with respect to team activities.

On and on we go...

 

[Manster7588]

Could we tag Cousin's and package him and Smith to Philly for Foles?

Sure, but Philly is already over the cap, those two contracts will handcuff the shit out of them.

 

[Manster7588]

If Kirk would realize that by signing the Tag, not only will he be guaranteed 34M this year, but it ups the starting point for negotiations for a LTD and guaranteed money. It is not in his best interested to try to screw us. We just cant be greedy. Be open and honest with him, help him realize that this is a good thing and he can benefit from it. As long as we don't try to ask too much or control where he goes, it could work out.

Or maybe Kirk signs the tag thinking he will screw us. And Cleveland doesn't care if he agrees to a LTD and will trade for him no matter what.

But honestly I don't see Bruce having a nice honest conversation with him. So, in the end we will get screwed.

No it doesn't. If tagged Washington will owe him that and any team willing to trade for his FT contract will, but teams will want the right to negotiate a LTD with Kirk before any trade is offered.
I am a never say never person, when the NFL is involved, but teams are not trading for that FT contract. If Kirk doesn't agree to a LTD with any trade partner the Skins would be fucked .

 

[Manster7588]

In outlaws scenario I would take the 4th . In my world I have committed to smith so I Let KC walk and get the camp pick . Then I start filling holes

As this point thats the best option. Hell as far as I'm concerned, it's the only option.

 

[Manster7588]

That article is hot garbage.

"Business decisions" work both ways.

If KC refuses to sign, then the redskins can wait until after the draft, or at least until the other qb needy teams sign somebody else, then rescind the tag.

Since it supposedly has to be the exclusive franchise tag, KC and his agent won't be able to negotiate with other teams until KC signs the tender.

I like a few of the Post columnists, but Rick Snider has sucked moose dong since he worked at the Times. Terrible writer.

Teams can rescind the franchise or transition tag -- as we saw with Josh Norman last year -- if the offer sheet hasn't been signed. Once the sheet is signed, the player's salary is guaranteed for that season.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

Sure, but Philly is already over the cap, those two contracts will handcuff the shit out of them.

Beyond the cap issues - which as you say make it practically impossible - there would be major issues with the players involved in this (ridiculously) potential trade. No way in hell that Cousins nor Wentz would be happy in this situation & very likely the same would be true with an Alex Smith/Nick Foles situation. This is totally different that than the Wentz/Foles situation since Foles was already the designated backup for the Eagles (& who knows he may become unhappy next season).

There is also the matter of salary for Foles - almost an impossible fit with Smith's big contract (assuming Foles will want more). The Redskins most likely are only looking for low paid vets or young players to be the backup QB for the next few seasons.

 

[Davis_Mike]

For those that don't understand the franchise tag, here is an article about it.

10 things to know about the franchise tag

5. Franchise tender is guaranteed, with one exception.

Once a player signs the franchise tag, the one-year salary becomes fully guaranteed.

 

[gkekoa]

Tender is defined as an offer.

Once an offer is signed if becomes a...

CONTRACT