Wilson going to the Broncos

[returnofjakedog]

The Eskridge pick was a little baffling. Pete being a defense sort of coach I would of figured a defensive player with that pick. Maybe it was a attempt to appease RW by giving him another weapon? IDK. Although they had 2 top notch WRs a third WR that can get open certainly helps against defenses that double cover the first two WRs. Maybe they had Eskridge as BPA.

That is fine if your D was stocked and stable but they knew it wasn't. They knew they were trotting out the likes of Flowers, and whomever they could get off the waiver wire, and this was after the debacle of the pass D the year previous (which repeated in almost the same fashion last year).

If it was the attempt to appease RW it was a gross miscalculation, and a stupid mistake. Additionally, if they Eskridge is ever going to pan out they now NEED to trade one of Lockett or Metcalf. The problem there is that if they trade DK then they have perhaps the smallest 1-2 in the league, while keeping DK and trading Lockett means trading the better producer for a guy who might force his way out next offseason.

 

[Anointed One]

Rooting for the pick from Denver in 2023 to be as early as possible.

Same here.... Which means I will be rooting for them to fail...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

That is fine if your D was stocked and stable but they knew it wasn't. They knew they were trotting out the likes of Flowers, and whomever they could get off the waiver wire, and this was after the debacle of the pass D the year previous (which repeated in almost the same fashion last year).

If it was the attempt to appease RW it was a gross miscalculation, and a stupid mistake. Additionally, if they Eskridge is ever going to pan out they now NEED to trade one of Lockett or Metcalf. The problem there is that if they trade DK then they have perhaps the smallest 1-2 in the league, while keeping DK and trading Lockett means trading the better producer for a guy who might force his way out next offseason.

There is no NEED to trade any of their WRs. They have monster cap space next year. DK might get traded though. He a hot head, often does bone headed things, a diva and is going to want a record setting contract and his trade value is high so we'll see.

 

[returnofjakedog]

There is no NEED to trade any of their WRs. They have monster cap space next year. DK might get traded though. He a hot head, often does bone headed things, a diva and is going to want a record setting contract and his trade value is high so we'll see.

.......which feeds into "the need to trade one of them" theory.

You are correct in that they don't actually need to trade anyone, but if they want to get any value out of the Eskeridge pick then they need to be able to put him on the field as a starter, and not a #3 who can run sweeps. In that scenerio they NEED to unload 1 of the top 3 WRs. If they don't then you might as well have flushed the pick down the toilet (well, not that extreme but you get the point).

 

[HaroldSeattle]

.......which feeds into "the need to trade one of them" theory.

You are correct in that they don't actually need to trade anyone, but if they want to get any value out of the Eskeridge pick then they need to be able to put him on the field as a starter, and not a #3 who can run sweeps. In that scenerio they NEED to unload 1 of the top 3 WRs. If they don't then you might as well have flushed the pick down the toilet (well, not that extreme but you get the point).

I would suggest using him as Gallup was used on the Cowboys ( as a third WR). His first season was a waste but to some degree that was due to injuries. I see the Rams and 49ers use WR for sweeps all the time and get credit for "innovation" and the Cards use Rondale Moore in a similar fashion. Some how when Pete does these things it is considered a waste.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I would suggest using him as Gallup was used on the Cowboys ( as a third WR). His first season was a waste but to some degree that was due to injuries. I see the Rams and 49ers use WR for sweeps all the time and get credit for "innovation" and the Cards use Rondale Moore in a similar fashion. Some how when Pete does these things it is considered a waste.

*Performing a sweep with your #3 WR = not a waste.
*When your #3 WR was the top pick in your draft and is used mostly for sweeps because he can't get on the field much with 2 better WRs in front of him, and you have huge holes elsewhere, then it is a bit of a waste.

My point remains that IF they are going to get value out of the Eskeridge pick then he needs to be a starter (a #1 or 2), which requires the team to move either Lockett or DK. If he remains a #3 WR then you could have easily stuck with Swain, drafted elsewhere, and the team would be (theoretically) much better off.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

*Performing a sweep with your #3 WR = not a waste.
*When your #3 WR was the top pick in your draft and is used mostly for sweeps because he can't get on the field much with 2 better WRs in front of him, and you have huge holes elsewhere, then it is a bit of a waste.

My point remains that IF they are going to get value out of the Eskeridge pick then he needs to be a starter (a #1 or 2), which requires the team to move either Lockett or DK. If he remains a #3 WR then you could have easily stuck with Swain, drafted elsewhere, and the team would be (theoretically) much better off.

Eskeridge was a reach at a second round pick, but he's better by a good bit then Swain, just need to use more 3 WR sets to give him more snaps. I do get the frustration at using a high pick on a WR when there were bigger needs at other positions. Why that happen is a mystery we'll likely never know the truth of. Certainly wasn't because Pete likes offense players over defensive players.

 

[returnofjakedog]

Eskeridge was a reach at a second round pick, but he's better by a good bit then Swain, just need to use more 3 WR sets to give him more snaps. I do get the frustration at using a high pick on a WR when there were bigger needs at other positions. Why that happen is a mystery we'll likely never know the truth of. Certainly wasn't because Pete likes offense players over defensive players.

*Yes, Eskridge is better than Swain. But Swain is a perfectly servicable #3, so it wasn't as if there was a need to fill the position.

*I'd have no problem with running more 3 WR sets, but this is a PC offense. You know that they will run power sets with 2 TEs over 3 WRs more than almost the entire rest of the league.

 

[kcden]

Question for all of you... Will you be rooting for RW to flourish or will you be rooting for him to fail? Not a trick question here...

Once 2023 comes around, I'll be rooting for them. Next year.... Russ, you sure your finger is ok? How about you give it 18 weeks or so to heal?

 

[Racer8825]

Hopefully Eskridge will be fully healed from the injury he sustained last season. I'm excited to see what he can bring to our offense with a new QB

 

[flyerhawk]

As new Seahawks era begins, Pete Carroll, John Schneider tout the future

Seattle's coach and GM on Wednesday met the media to discuss the Russell Wilson trade, Drew Lock and why they're not in rebuild mode.

theathletic.com

But what’s more important than rehashing the past — the impetus for the trade can be found in this story — is assessing how Seattle proceeds going forward. Carroll said Seattle is not rebuilding. The plan, as it has always been, is to field the most competitive roster possible and contend for a championship this season. And the Seahawks have Allen’s blessing to go about that how they see fit.


“She supported us, challenged us, demanded that we were sure what we were doing, we could account for all of the thoughts and the background and the work we needed to do to put this together,” Carroll said. “But when it came right down to it, she said, ‘What I see this doing to you guys is, John, you’re back in your wheelhouse. Pete, you’re back in your wheelhouse.’ She’s stating (that) knowing that we have so many opportunities to work and deal and wheel our creative approach to what we do and make really positive things happen.”

So they believe they are going to compete for a title this year and that getting rid of Wilson will enable them to do what they do best. Apparently Wilson was the reason why they have drafted so poorly over the past 5 seasons and made highly dubious moves like the Richardson/Clowney/Adams trades.

Carroll referencing the makeup of the franchise’s only Super Bowl-winning roster is no accident. Carroll believes the formula for winning championships is running the ball at a high level, being efficient and explosive in the passing game, playing elite defense and being consistently sound on special teams. Because of his belief in that formula, Carroll is not under the impression his team must have a quarterback who can throw it all over the yard.

Great. Now we just need an elite defense and Drew Lock to become an efficient and explosive passer.

They go on to say that Drew Lock is going to be great and they have full faith in him but they are looking at other QBs and Geno Smith may still be the starter and they may draft a QB. So, IOW, complete nonsense.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

I'm still convinced they're drafting a QB this year... and it is going to be a very Mac Jones type thing - probably with a late 1st.

The fact they resigned Woods (35 years old), Dissly, made some decent CB pickups on the cheap, resigned Diggs, have not traded Lockett, are trying to pick up Trenton Brown (will be expensive - if he's healthy he's a great starter), and grabbing other guys shows me that they're not looking to blow up the team. Bobby Wagner unfortunately was just a contract casualty, there's no world where he's worth $20M this year - hopefully he comes back but I'm sure he's testing the market.

That said, Mac Jones came into the most stable organization and for obvious reasons played the best of all the new QBs last year, and actually made the playoffs. I see Carroll trying to do the same thing with the QB they draft (my opinion anyway) this year. Bring them into an org with some new OL, money still locked up in the secondary, a pretty damn good receiver group (Metcalf, Lockett, Fant, Dissly, Eskridge), etc. And as for a RB, draft one and plug/play or hopefully Penny signs a cheap 1 year prove it deal.

All of their moves are also short term, leaving a WIDE open cap to go all in around 2024 which is nearing Pete's final year for a possible 'run'. That is contingent of course on hitting the next two drafts, but I see that as the goal.

It's very obvious to me with their moves outside of Wagner/Wilson, Seattle is NOT blowing up the team. And folks are asking "NOW Seattle is addressing the OL?" I wonder if Seattle didn't think it was worth investing in the OL with Wilson because Wilson likes to hold on to the ball forever and make plays with his legs, and likes playing outside the pocket on the move. Duane Brown was visibly frustrated with Wilson and beyond fed up blocking for him. Other OL on Seattle's team have also said it's tough to block for him. And Wilson doesn't look to run much anymore, he scrambles to hold onto the ball FOREVER and wait for plays to break down or huck it 40 yards.

I don't see how Denver is SO much better. Denver's receivers are not as established or good as Seattle's. They're just not. AT BEST on par. And Fant was the perfect TE for Wilson (likes to run deep) who is now gone. As for their OL... Denver's OL is... DECENT. It's a little above average... but put Wilson behind it with his playstyle and I wouldn't be surprised if the sacks rack up and the OL gets frustrated... the ONE benefit Wilson has is he's going to an offensive minded coach who may change things up more capably than Carroll. That said, it's interesting Waldron came in (very successful with the Rams) and Seattle was still very much using the same playbook early on... I wonder if that was Wilson wanting to 'cook'.

 

[flyerhawk]

I'm still convinced they're drafting a QB this year... and it is going to be a very Mac Jones type thing - probably with a late 1st.

The fact they resigned Woods (35 years old), Dissly, made some decent CB pickups on the cheap, resigned Diggs, have not traded Lockett, are trying to pick up Trenton Brown (will be expensive - if he's healthy he's a great starter), and grabbing other guys shows me that they're not looking to blow up the team. Bobby Wagner unfortunately was just a contract casualty, there's no world where he's worth $20M this year - hopefully he comes back but I'm sure he's testing the market.

That said, Mac Jones came into the most stable organization and for obvious reasons played the best of all the new QBs last year, and actually made the playoffs. I see Carroll trying to do the same thing with the QB they draft (my opinion anyway) this year. Bring them into an org with some new OL, money still locked up in the secondary, a pretty damn good receiver group (Metcalf, Lockett, Fant, Dissly, Eskridge), etc. And as for a RB, draft one and plug/play or hopefully Penny signs a cheap 1 year prove it deal.

The Patriots had one of the best defenses in football last year. The Seahawks.... did not. So bringing in a Mac Jones type player and expecting similar results seems unrealistic.

All of their moves are also short term, leaving a WIDE open cap to go all in around 2024 which is nearing Pete's final year for a possible 'run'. That is contingent of course on hitting the next two drafts, but I see that as the goal.

It's very obvious to me with their moves outside of Wagner/Wilson, Seattle is NOT blowing up the team. And folks are asking "NOW Seattle is addressing the OL?" I wonder if Seattle didn't think it was worth investing in the OL with Wilson because Wilson likes to hold on to the ball forever and make plays with his legs, and likes playing outside the pocket on the move. Duane Brown was visibly frustrated with Wilson and beyond fed up blocking for him. Other OL on Seattle's team have also said it's tough to block for him. And Wilson doesn't look to run much anymore, he scrambles to hold onto the ball FOREVER and wait for plays to break down or huck it 40 yards.

Well it's possible that our OL has been bad because of Russ. I guess we'll see this year.

I don't see how Denver is SO much better. Denver's receivers are not as established or good as Seattle's. They're just not. AT BEST on par. And Fant was the perfect TE for Wilson (likes to run deep) who is now gone. As for their OL... Denver's OL is... DECENT. It's a little above average... but put Wilson behind it with his playstyle and I wouldn't be surprised if the sacks rack up and the OL gets frustrated... the ONE benefit Wilson has is he's going to an offensive minded coach who may change things up more capably than Carroll. That said, it's interesting Waldron came in (very successful with the Rams) and Seattle was still very much using the same playbook early on... I wonder if that was Wilson wanting to 'cook'.

I think that Denver's offense is similar in ability to the Seahawks. So I guess we'll see whether the issue was Wilson or the coaching this fall.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The Patriots had one of the best defenses in football last year. The Seahawks.... did not. So bringing in a Mac Jones type player and expecting similar results seems unrealistic.



Well it's possible that our OL has been bad because of Russ. I guess we'll see this year.



I think that Denver's offense is similar in ability to the Seahawks. So I guess we'll see whether the issue was Wilson or the coaching this fall.

Yes, you're very right on the defense. Hopefully with some of the moves we've yet to make and Norton gone that can improve.

I said in a different post, the one UPSIDE to going to Denver is the defense is a top 5 one... the downside is the AFC and the AFC West are FARRRR more difficult to succeed in at the moment. Yes I get the NFC won the SBOWL but I'm talking about getting there. Of course that's been mentioned by various analysts/social media folks, this forum, etc. But what I don't quite get is a lot of those same people have also said, "He's going to be a better offense!" and talked about the receivers and OL (the coach I can see).

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Obvious from moves the Seahawks are going to try to win games, which is fine ( although some fans won't mind losses to ensure a top draft pick in 2023 and grabbing a franchise QB). They just signed a lot of their own FA and a few on top of those, nothing splashy. Would of been difficult to do that before the RW trade, we have all seen the crazy price tags players have this season, cap space just melts like butter on a hot plate. Still going to be additional signings to look forward to.
The draft now is of major interest. 4 picks in the top 75, 3 in the top 50, 1 in the top 10, 8 total and that might increase. Impossible to predict who the Seahawks take but it's not hard to envision improvement in areas of need, solidifying the defense, improving the OL, bring in fresh RBs, drafting a QB to compete with Lock ( not a early pick I predict) and going back to their roots and that combined with the players they have can be the start in reloading for the team. Next years draft with 2 first and 2 seconds along with some cap space should give the Seahawks the ammo they need to compete.
I for one don't believe you need a RW or Rodgers to compete, but you do need a good QB and that isn't some impossible task. Pete was mentioning that in college with players leaving early for the NFL he had 7 different starting QBs in 9 years. He was able to find what he needed at QB despite having to cycle through them due them leaving for the NFL. During his time with the Seahawks he has tried to draft Dalton, Mahomes and Jared Allen in addition to RW of course, so I'd say he has a good eye for talent at that position.
These changes have revived fans interest in the team. Seahawks forums are buzzing with interest once again, hope is renewed, the off season has been exciting, we are looking forward to the draft. It similar to the early days of PC and JS prior to the SB where the future and success was not assured but the journey alone was great. Now that is back, no assurance of success and they may fall short or not, but it's fun once again.

 

[flyerhawk]

Yes, you're very right on the defense. Hopefully with some of the moves we've yet to make and Norton gone that can improve.

I said in a different post, the one UPSIDE to going to Denver is the defense is a top 5 one... the downside is the AFC and the AFC West are FARRRR more difficult to succeed in at the moment. Yes I get the NFC won the SBOWL but I'm talking about getting there. Of course that's been mentioned by various analysts/social media folks, this forum, etc. But what I don't quite get is a lot of those same people have also said, "He's going to be a better offense!" and talked about the receivers and OL (the coach I can see).

The NFC West had 3 teams in the playoffs and the Super Bowl and the one team that missed did so mainly because of an injury to their QB.

I think the best way I heard it described was "Russell Wilson is going from the best division in football to..... the best division in football".

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

The NFC West had 3 teams in the playoffs and the Super Bowl and the one team that missed did so mainly because of an injury to their QB.

I think the best way I heard it described was "Russell Wilson is going from the best division in football to..... the best division in football".

Fair, but not just talking about the NFC West but the other NFC competition.

Although I guess Rodgers resigning with GB and Tomb Brady coming back keeps things a bit more competitive now in the NFC.

That said, Arizona fell flat towards the end of last year, Jones is gone, and Murray seems to be acting a little bishy, the Rams are still in a cap issue and have like ZERO round 1-4 picks. They went all in and it paid off, but I'd be very surprised if they repeat. The 9ers may be starting a new QB which can bring issues (course we are too). So yah, I don't see the NFC West quite as competitive as it was last year...

And frankly the reason 3 teams in the NFC West made it is because outside of GB/Tampa every other NFC team sucks ass. Point being, it's far easier to secure a playoff spot in the NFC let alone NFC West at the moment (in the current landscape) than it is the AFC. AFC West vs. NFC West is negligible but Chiefs/Chargers are better than Rams/Cards or 49ers... and the Raiders might as well fill in for the Cards or 49ers.

 

[flyerhawk]

Obvious from moves the Seahawks are going to try to win games, which is fine ( although some fans won't mind losses to ensure a top draft pick in 2023 and grabbing a franchise QB). They just signed a lot of their own FA and a few on top of those, nothing splashy. Would of been difficult to do that before the RW trade, we have all seen the crazy price tags players have this season, cap space just melts like butter on a hot plate. Still going to be additional signings to look forward to.
The draft now is of major interest. 4 picks in the top 75, 3 in the top 50, 1 in the top 10, 8 total and that might increase. Impossible to predict who the Seahawks take but it's not hard to envision improvement in areas of need, solidifying the defense, improving the OL, bring in fresh RBs, drafting a QB to compete with Lock ( not a early pick I predict) and going back to their roots and that combined with the players they have can be the start in reloading for the team. Next years draft with 2 first and 2 seconds along with some cap space should give the Seahawks the ammo they need to compete.
I for one don't believe you need a RW or Rodgers to compete, but you do need a good QB and that isn't some impossible task. Pete was mentioning that in college with players leaving early for the NFL he had 7 different starting QBs in 9 years. He was able to find what he needed at QB despite having to cycle through them due them leaving for the NFL. During his time with the Seahawks he has tried to draft Dalton, Mahomes and Jared Allen in addition to RW of course, so I'd say he has a good eye for talent at that position.
These changes have revived fans interest in the team. Seahawks forums are buzzing with interest once again, hope is renewed, the off season has been exciting, we are looking forward to the draft. It similar to the early days of PC and JS prior to the SB where the future and success was not assured but the journey alone was great. Now that is back, no assurance of success and they may fall short or not, but it's fun once again.

The entire franchise turned around when they drafted Wilson. The playoff win 2010 was fun but the Seahawks being 7-9 2 years in a row wasn't really that exciting. We all tried to talk ourselves into believing that Matt Flynn could turn things around. Thankfully they got Wilson and the outlook of the team turned around almost immediately.

I can see why some people are hopeful. That's fine. I don't want to rain on anyone else's parade. I just have a much less positive view of where we stand right now

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Fair, but not just talking about the NFC West but the other NFC competition.

Although I guess Rodgers resigning with GB and Tomb Brady coming back keeps things a bit more competitive now in the NFC.

That said, Arizona fell flat towards the end of last year, Jones is gone, and Murray seems to be acting a little bishy, the Rams are still in a cap issue and have like ZERO round 1-4 picks. They went all in and it paid off, but I'd be very surprised if they repeat. The 9ers may be starting a new QB which can bring issues (course we are too). So yah, I don't see the NFC West quite as competitive as it was last year...

And frankly the reason 3 teams in the NFC West made it is because outside of GB/Tampa every other NFC team sucks ass. Point being, it's far easier to secure a playoff spot in the NFC let alone NFC West at the moment (in the current landscape) than it is the AFC. AFC West vs. NFC West is negligible but Chiefs/Chargers are better than Rams/Cards or 49ers... and the Raiders might as well fill in for the Cards or 49ers.

Rams will not be as good, but yet likely the best team in the NFC still,49ers will have a new QB who will have issues but he's replacing a very limited QB so not much of a down grade, if it is actually a down grade at all. In the mean time they will have a very young team that should get better as they jell and once they trade Jimmy have additional draft capitol. I see the 49ers challenging the Rams as the best NFC team. Cards are going to crash hard this season.
Packers will win a very weak division have a playoff appearance, lose quickly. We've all seen that movie more then once. Bucs will be back in it and maybe the Cowboys finally gel, who knows.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

The entire franchise turned around when they drafted Wilson. The playoff win 2010 was fun but the Seahawks being 7-9 2 years in a row wasn't really that exciting. We all tried to talk ourselves into believing that Matt Flynn could turn things around. Thankfully they got Wilson and the outlook of the team turned around almost immediately.

I can see why some people are hopeful. That's fine. I don't want to rain on anyone else's parade. I just have a much less positive view of where we stand right now

No drafting RW didn't turn the franchise around. Building a strong roster did that. What was ask of RW back then was very little and RW was a minor piece in the Seahawks run for the gold.