Will the B1G ever recover and be considered great again?

[Hook'Em0608]

Last year's B1G-Big 12 matchups featured -

Big 12 #4 (Okie State) vs. B1G #8 (Purdue)
Big 12# 6 (Texas Tech) vs. B1G #10 (Minnesota)
The only even matchup (TCU vs. MSU) was a win for the B1G.

2011 Matchups:

Big 12 #7 Texas A&M vs. B1G #9 Northwestern
Big 12 #4 Oklahoma vs. B1G #7 Iowa

This year's only Big 12-B1G matchups is B1G #8 Michigan vs. Big 12 #5 Kansas State.

Looks like you're the one that needs the education bro.

Get your programs off probation and then we can have an honest conversation. Until then you are doing nothing but spinning. Not to mention, there are more bowl games than those 2. The B1G tends to not follow their own selection criteria sometimes. Especially against non-AQ's. They send higher slotted teams to play non-AQ's when it should be your #7 and #8.

2011
#1 Wisconsin BCS bowl
#2 Michigan St v. #2 Georgia
t#3 Michigan BCS bowl
t#3 Penn St v. #2 CUSA WTF was this shit?
#5 Nebraska v. t#4 South Carolina
t#6 Iowa v. t#3 Oklahoma
t#6 Purdue v. t#4 Western Michigan WTF was this shit?
t#8 Ohio St v. #7 Florida
t#8 Northwestern v. t#6 Texas A&M
#10 Illinois v. t#4 UCLA

2012 2 teams were on probation

2013 1 team is on probation

You guys are your own worst enemies. Sending your 3 or 4 to play a non-AQ team? Sending your 6 or 7 to play a non-AQ team that finished 4th in its conference? Meanwhile, the Big 12 sends the appropriate teams to the appropriate bowl based on the laid out criteria. Not our fault you don't.

 

[Smart]

Get your programs off probation and then we can have an honest conversation. Until then you are doing nothing but spinning. Not to mention, there are more bowl games than those 2. The B1G tends to not follow their own selection criteria sometimes. Especially against non-AQ's. They send higher slotted teams to play non-AQ's when it should be your #7 and #8.

2011
#1 Wisconsin BCS bowl
#2 Michigan St v. #2 Georgia
t#3 Michigan BCS bowl
t#3 Penn St v. #2 CUSA WTF was this shit?
#5 Nebraska v. t#4 South Carolina
t#6 Iowa v. t#3 Oklahoma
t#6 Purdue v. t#4 Western Michigan WTF was this shit?
t#8 Ohio St v. #7 Florida
t#8 Northwestern v. t#6 Texas A&M
#10 Illinois v. t#4 UCLA

2012 2 teams were on probation

2013 1 team is on probation

You guys are your own worst enemies. Sending your 3 or 4 to play a non-AQ team? Sending your 6 or 7 to play a non-AQ team that finished 4th in its conference? Meanwhile, the Big 12 sends the appropriate teams to the appropriate bowl based on the laid out criteria. Not our fault you don't.

Oh great. And now we get the "i'm gonna use two games to argue a decade-long statistical trend that another poster has given" post.

 

[JuiceTheGator]

Serious question. The 2006-07 bowl season was a massive blow to the entire conference, and we still haven't recovered. With the exception of the 2009-10, the whole conference has played mediocre football in bowl season and in interleague play. We hear constantly on ESPN, online, etc., about how weak the conference is. I'm just wondering how long this will last.

Is that why OSUx fans took it so hard? They still bristle at Gators. I don't know if they treat LSU the same for '07.

UF really started becoming competitive in all sports when the state of FL had grown large and was economically very vigorous. Because of this fact, my concern for the Big 10 lies with the rustbelt's problems. Sure, old alums still give generously to schools and it's not like your population has shrunk. So, to be honest, I can't quite put my finger on it. But it has something to do with economics and demographics.

 

[rmilia1]

I guess that since we are now arguing that the B10's 3/4/5 teams are better than the SEC 4/5/6 teams we can extaroplate that Iowa/Nebraska/Wisconsin are in fact better than USCe/LSU/UGA meaning of course that Michigan State should be in the title game ahead of Auburn Weird because all year long all we heard was that the depth of talent in the SEC was what made the league special. I guess thats out the window come bowl season???

 

[Ironbreaker]

I guess that since we are now arguing that the B10's 3/4/5 teams are better than the SEC 4/5/6 teams we can extaroplate that Iowa/Nebraska/Wisconsin are in fact better than USCe/LSU/UGA meaning of course that Michigan State should be in the title game ahead of Auburn Weird because all year long all we heard was that the depth of talent in the SEC was what made the league special. I guess thats out the window come bowl season???

By our stupid system I believe Auburn deserves to go. However I also believe if they played on the field, Sparty would beat their ass.

 

[boxedlunch]

Paying the number 15 team is always tougher than playing the number 16 team regardless of the other team. Ill analogize. Say there is a one on one basketball game and Kevin Durant is playing Lebron James. On another court Carmelo Anthony is playing Paul George. So we have the #2 player in the NBA playing the number 1 player and the number 8/9 guy playing the number 3 guy. Who drew the tougher matchup??? Of course Durant did right??? For sure. Same thing in CFB. Playing the number 15 team is always tougher than playing the number 16 team.

In the AP poll, the #15 is 4-7 against the #16 team. In the coaches poll, the #15 team is 1-6 against the #16 team. The #15 team is 0-1 against the #16 team in the BCS. I'm going to dispute the notion that just because a team is picked one position higher in a beauty contest, does not neccessarily mean that they are the tougher team.

 

[boxedlunch]

Right. I simply don't know all the numbers. The poster merely threw out a 10 year period and said the B1G had faced more ranked teams.

Thats not really detailed enogh to draw that conclusion without more data. Even the poster himself admitted as much.

I'm not saying the B1G hasn't faced the tougher draw... just that the numbers used to illustrate they have, were incomplete...

The data I threw out later both is enough to conclude the Big Ten has played the tougher teams and had the tougher draw.

 

[Codaxx]

Too much money, too big of alumni bases and too big of names to stay down forever.

Though fun fact, since we are talking bowls here I think we can agree the gold standard right now is the SEC, well since the BCS started in 1998, in their bowl matchups against the SEC the Big Ten is batting just under 0.500, and that's with 90%+ of the games being psuedo home games for the SEC team.

-
I think it is a population issue. Detriot is smaller today than in 1960. Population trends have favore the south and are now going west. I think the weakness in the Big 10 is a direct result of that. Unless the Rust belt reverses its 20 yr trend, I do not see the Big 10 coming back to its former level.

 

[Smart]

I'll frame this argument one more way, Iron:

Between 1998 and 2010, the bowl records of the Mountain West were 25-16. The bowl records of the SEC were 56-39. The Mountain West had a higher percentage of wins.

Now let's say that the SEC was typically ranked higher than their opponents in Bowl game. So the SECs third best team was ranked #12 and played a team ranked #20. Now let's say that this wasn't true for the Mountain West. The Mountain West's third best team was ranked #60 and played a team ranked #50.

Which conference is better? Your inquiry says what matters is Record and Relative Strength. The Mountain West is clearly better in both of these. So using your argument, the Mountain West was better than the SEC from 1998 to 2010.

This is the same analogy as the NFL-High School analogy, but it stays at the FBS level.

Do you really think the Mountain West was better or do you think that maybe relative strength of opponents doesn't tell us as much as actual strength?

 

[ForkEmBucky]

There is some pretty paradoxical logic going on in this thrrad. Amazing 2+2=0 kind of shit.

 

[Sox33OSU]

Get your programs off probation and then we can have an honest conversation. Until then you are doing nothing but spinning. Not to mention, there are more bowl games than those 2. The B1G tends to not follow their own selection criteria sometimes. Especially against non-AQ's. They send higher slotted teams to play non-AQ's when it should be your #7 and #8.

2011
#1 Wisconsin BCS bowl
#2 Michigan St v. #2 Georgia
t#3 Michigan BCS bowl
t#3 Penn St v. #2 CUSA WTF was this shit?
#5 Nebraska v. t#4 South Carolina
t#6 Iowa v. t#3 Oklahoma
t#6 Purdue v. t#4 Western Michigan WTF was this shit?
t#8 Ohio St v. #7 Florida
t#8 Northwestern v. t#6 Texas A&M
#10 Illinois v. t#4 UCLA

2012 2 teams were on probation

2013 1 team is on probation

You guys are your own worst enemies. Sending your 3 or 4 to play a non-AQ team? Sending your 6 or 7 to play a non-AQ team that finished 4th in its conference? Meanwhile, the Big 12 sends the appropriate teams to the appropriate bowl based on the laid out criteria. Not our fault you don't.

The 2 games vs. mid-majors do absolutely nothing to argue your point. You're pointing out 2 games from 1 season, 1 game of which wouldn't affect anything really. Facts are facts, we consistently play up to our competition when it comes to rankings.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Oh great. And now we get the "i'm gonna use two games to argue a decade-long statistical trend that another poster has given" post.

Your decade long trend is not the current reality. You are now a 12 team league. The Big 12 is now a 10 team league. The SEC and ACC are now 14 team leagues. The Pac 12 is now a 12 team league. The Big East no longer exist. The bowl tie ins have not adjusted to all that until starting next year. Right now the Big 12 has just as hard a bowl schedule as the Big 10. The Pac 12 and ACC have the easiest bowl schedules. The SEC isn't as tough now as it was prior to going to 14 teams. When you have more teams it means your #6 right now should be a better team than your #6 was when you had 12 for example.

2013

Big 12
#5 Baylor v. #15 UCF
#11 Oklahoma v. #3 Alabama
#13 Oklahoma St v. #8 Missouri
Texas v. #10 Oregon
Kansas St. v. Michigan
Texas Tech v. #14 Arizona St

5 out of 6 of our games are against top 15 teams. That is 1/3 of all top 15 teams. I doubt anyone has ever done that. You keep crying yourself a river and making excuses for why the B1G loses bowl games. I fully expect the Big 12 to go .500 in their bowls this year. Anything less will be a disappointment and I consider the Big 12 down this year.

 

[Smart]

Your decade long trend is not the current reality. You are now a 12 team league. The Big 12 is now a 10 team league.

Fine. But that doesn't mean it wasn't true for 2003-2012, which is where the perception that the B1G is down is coming from. My point is that the B1G was never really down. From the SEC, sure. But from everyone else, it wasn't.

And my hunch is that with the new bowl alignments, the B1G's record will reflect that.

 

[ForkEmBucky]

There is some pretty paradoxical logic going on in this thrrad. Amazing 2+2=0 kind of shit.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

The 2 games vs. mid-majors do absolutely nothing to argue your point. You're pointing out 2 games from 1 season, 1 game of which wouldn't affect anything really. Facts are facts, we consistently play up to our competition when it comes to rankings.

It absolutely does. Your conference manipulates your selection process based upon team rankings and match ups instead of your laid out selection criteria. So any given year because of the way you do things there is gonna be a couple wildly uneven match ups. You put a better team in a bowl than your selection criteria calls for and obviously a lower team is going to play up in another bowl. Understand now?

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Fine. But that doesn't mean it wasn't true for 2003-2012, which is where the perception that the B1G is down is coming from. My point is that the B1G was never really down. From the SEC, sure. But from everyone else, it wasn't.

And my hunch is that with the new bowl alignments, the B1G's record will reflect that.

Maybe, maybe not. Your conference hasn't exactly faired all that well against the Pac 12 either though. Or in BCS bowls in general when facing a top 5 team. Those top tier match ups are what shapes peoples opinions of your conference. It is the #1 reason the SEC is pretty much undisputed as the best conference. Before you bring it up, I'm not claiming the Big 12 has done all that much better in big games.

 

[Hook'Em0608]

If you want to change the perception of the B1G you need to do 3 things. Play for national titles, have Heisman trophy contenders, and put out top 10 draft picks. Those are the main things the average person takes notice of. I agree with you that the B1G isn't as bad as some people act like they are. However, you haven't faired well in those 3 categories.

Last 10 years

National title game appearances

SEC-9
Big 12-5
Pac 12-3
B1G-2
Notre Dame-1

Top 3 Heisman trophy finishes

Big 12-9
Big East-1
SEC-9
Pac 12-7
B1G-1
Others-3

Top 10 draft picks
SEC-32
B1G-10
Big East-6
ACC-17
Big 12-19
Pac 12-13
Others-3

What high profile event is the B1G supposed to hang it's hat on as far as respect for the quality of teams and players in the last decade? These are 3 categories the B1G built it's reputation on. Now, why should we give you the same respect you use to have when you are no longer competing at the same level in the 3 areas you use to dominate?

 

[ellupo]

If you want to change the perception of the B1G you need to do 3 things. Play for national titles, have Heisman trophy contenders, and put out top 10 draft picks. Those are the main things the average person takes notice of. I agree with you that the B1G isn't as bad as some people act like they are. However, you haven't faired well in those 3 categories.

Last 10 years

National title game appearances

SEC-9
Big 12-5
Pac 12-3
B1G-2
Notre Dame-1

Top 3 Heisman trophy finishes

Big 12-9
Big East-1
SEC-9
Pac 12-7
B1G-1
Others-3

Top 10 draft picks
SEC-32
B1G-10
Big East-6
ACC-17
Big 12-19
Pac 12-13
Others-3

What high profile event is the B1G supposed to hang it's hat on as far as respect for the quality of teams and players in the last decade? These are 3 categories the B1G built it's reputation on. Now, why should we give you the same respect you use to have when you are no longer competing at the same level in the 3 areas you use to dominate?

Same could be said about TX, why give them any respect?

 

[ToolmyDread]

Quick answer. NO

 

[Hook'Em0608]

Same could be said about TX, why give them any respect?

What respect have they been given in years?