Wiggys Hopes and Dreams

[WiggyRuss]

It looks like to me Gobert has the potential to become a lot better

Utah would laugh their balls off if they got offered Whiteside for Gobert.

Gobert is younger, a much better team-oriented guy, a much better rim defender...he wont overplay just for stats--- hes not prone to the mental lapses and disappearing acts that continue to plague Blancote.

I mean cmon now. The Jazz won 51 games in the West last year and Gobert and Hayward were by far their 2 best players.

The Heat couldnt even make the Eastern Conference Playoffs. You switch Gobert for Whiteside UTah would have been lucky to win 40.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Gobert isn't a top 15 player. If you believe that, you're crazier than I thought you were.

Back to defending the ratings when they suit your point, but in general bashing them?

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard
26. IT

Tier 5 Sometime All Stars, talented up and comers- Guys that would be #3, maybe #2 in a "Big 3"

27. Love
28. Jokic
29. Porzingis
30. Jordan
31. Conley
32. Kemba
33. Aldridge
34. McCollum
35. Horford
36. Milsap
37. Beal

Tier 6 Guys who are usually right below that all star level or need more development to become All star level

38. Bradley
39. Middleton
40. Bledsoe
41. Dragic
42, Booker
42. Otto Porter Jr.
43. A. Wiggins
44. Barnes
45. Oladipo
46. M. Turner

Tier 7 Great Role Players, Former Stars You still gotta respect, Unreached Potential

47. H. Whiteside
48. D. Schroeder
48. E. Gordon
49. D. Howard
50. Carmelo
51. D. Wade
52. A. Drummond
53. S. Adams
54. N. Noel
56. N. Vucevic
57. Z. Lavine
58. J. Crowder
59. D. Nowitski
60. J. Redick
61. B. Simmons
62. D. Schroeder
63. J. Holliday
64. J. Teague
65. R. Rubio
66. C. Capela
67. J. Parker
68. D. Gallinari
69. P. Beverly
70. G. Hill
71. D. Waiters
72. D. Favors
73. M. Fultz
74. JR Smith
75. T. Thompson

(didnt want to rank so many, but wanted to finish the tier)

 

[trojanfan12]

Wiggy sure does spend a lot of time analyzing Whiteside...While I give Whiteside more credit than he does (I had him ranked #35), his hatred for Whiteside is starting to rub off on me a little bit...

(Of course I've always hated the Heat anyway)

I'll bet hatred isn't the only thing he's rubbing off on you. (NTTAWWT)

 

[trojanfan12]

Once again, this is not true or at the very least, misleading. The defensive rating line up splits are all at team average (5th in the league btw, so damn good) or higher with Whiteside on the floor. His defensive win shares are top 5 in the league as is his personal defensive rating. The one stat that is an outlier is his personal defensive BPM, which is lower than some of his contemporaries. But, as one of your quotes stated, its an on/off measurement and those can be noisy. But that's why smart people don't just rely on one stat when evaluating players. Considering that he has two other stats in his favor and absolutely dominates the 5 man lineups (up to 9 different lineups above team average feature him), it's pretty safe to assume he's a damn good defensive player that makes a huge impact for the Heat. And its further validated when you actually watch the games because the advanced tools match what you see (that is, if you know what to look for, or in your case, even bother to watch a basketball game)

Conversely, the real reason Whiteside should be ranked around where he is, is his offense. All metrics point to him being merely average to subpar...which if you watch the games, also matches. He's dependent on others for the majority of his offense.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

oh it can be "noisy" no doubt

and as i said - NBA advanced stats- are definitely not definitive.


when you have trends that occur in 3 straight years though- that usually tells you something


the quote:

On/off court splits can be noisy, but this is now three straight seasons in which Miami's defense has posted a better defensive rating with it's anchor on the bench rather than on the floor.



once okay- could be a fluke....twice...coincedence? prob not, but sure--- maybe.....three seasons in a row?

When it happens 3 seasons in a row the "noise" begins to fade away- and you just have the truth.


Whiteside is a lot closer to Jonas Valunciunas and Marcin Gortat and Dwight Howard---- then to actual elite players like Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins, Rudy Gobert, etc.----- he is Shareef Abdul Rahim- a stat stuffer that just doesnt help you win.

Its really hard for a center that (i) cant pass, (ii) cant shoot, and (iii) cant guard the perimeter, to have a substantial impact in todays pace and space shooting NBA. Whiteside is one of those guys who cant do any of those 3 things. Hes terrible at them.

1 year could be a fluke i guess
2 years could be a coincedence i guess
3 years is awful hard to just brush away as bullshit---- but thats what the flamingo's around here like to do- put their head in the sand.

Does anyone want to guess what I'm about to say to wiggy?

 

[mick7-1961]

I wonder if Russell Westbrook will throw his giant hog up on the table like he did on Fan Nation ?

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

oh it can be "noisy" no doubt

and as i said - NBA advanced stats- are definitely not definitive.


when you have trends that occur in 3 straight years though- that usually tells you something


the quote:

On/off court splits can be noisy, but this is now three straight seasons in which Miami's defense has posted a better defensive rating with it's anchor on the bench rather than on the floor.



once okay- could be a fluke....twice...coincedence? prob not, but sure--- maybe.....three seasons in a row?

When it happens 3 seasons in a row the "noise" begins to fade away- and you just have the truth.


Whiteside is a lot closer to Jonas Valunciunas and Marcin Gortat and Dwight Howard---- then to actual elite players like Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins, Rudy Gobert, etc.----- he is Shareef Abdul Rahim- a stat stuffer that just doesnt help you win.

Its really hard for a center that (i) cant pass, (ii) cant shoot, and (iii) cant guard the perimeter, to have a substantial impact in todays pace and space shooting NBA. Whiteside is one of those guys who cant do any of those 3 things. Hes terrible at them.

1 year could be a fluke i guess
2 years could be a coincedence i guess
3 years is awful hard to just brush away as bullshit---- but thats what the flamingo's around here like to do- put their head in the sand.

Utah would laugh their balls off if they got offered Whiteside for Gobert.

Gobert is younger, a much better team-oriented guy, a much better rim defender...he wont overplay just for stats--- hes not prone to the mental lapses and disappearing acts that continue to plague Blancote.

I mean cmon now. The Jazz won 51 games in the West last year and Gobert and Hayward were by far their 2 best players.

The Heat couldnt even make the Eastern Conference Playoffs. You switch Gobert for Whiteside UTah would have been lucky to win 40.

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard
26. IT

Tier 5 Sometime All Stars, talented up and comers- Guys that would be #3, maybe #2 in a "Big 3"

27. Love
28. Jokic
29. Porzingis
30. Jordan
31. Conley
32. Kemba
33. Aldridge
34. McCollum
35. Horford
36. Milsap
37. Beal

Tier 6 Guys who are usually right below that all star level or need more development to become All star level

38. Bradley
39. Middleton
40. Bledsoe
41. Dragic
42, Booker
42. Otto Porter Jr.
43. A. Wiggins
44. Barnes
45. Oladipo
46. M. Turner

Tier 7 Great Role Players, Former Stars You still gotta respect, Unreached Potential

47. H. Whiteside
48. D. Schroeder
48. E. Gordon
49. D. Howard
50. Carmelo
51. D. Wade
52. A. Drummond
53. S. Adams
54. N. Noel
56. N. Vucevic
57. Z. Lavine
58. J. Crowder
59. D. Nowitski
60. J. Redick
61. B. Simmons
62. D. Schroeder
63. J. Holliday
64. J. Teague
65. R. Rubio
66. C. Capela
67. J. Parker
68. D. Gallinari
69. P. Beverly
70. G. Hill
71. D. Waiters
72. D. Favors
73. M. Fultz
74. JR Smith
75. T. Thompson

(didnt want to rank so many, but wanted to finish the tier)

At this point lets hope either:
A. You are failing at attempting to troll , or
B. You're not planning to be a trial attorney of any sort.

 

[WiggyRuss]

At this point lets hope either:
A. You are failing at attempting to troll , or
B. You're not planning to be a trial attorney of any sort.

and all you do is criticize...never have the balls to make your own list or opinions...either you dont have the balls or simply dont have the brains....either way you are a coward.

And ohh- planning on being an attorney. I proved I could handle the work.

the next time you actually make a list and stick your neck out and say where you think Whiteside belongs on a list of centers will be the first. Just a sackless coward that likes to criticize others without ever putting it on the line themselves.

kind of reminds me of one of LeBron's favorite quotes (as well as one of mine)-- Teddy Roosevelt Man in the Arena.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

or to put it another way:

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

and all you do is criticize...never have the balls to make your own list or opinions...either you dont have the balls or simply dont have the brains....either way you are a coward.

And ohh- planning on being an attorney. I proved I could handle the work.

the next time you actually make a list and stick your neck out and say where you think Whiteside belongs on a list of centers will be the first. Just a sackless coward that likes to criticize others without ever putting it on the line themselves.

kind of reminds me of one of LeBron's favorite quotes (as well as one of mine)-- Teddy Roosevelt Man in the Arena.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

or to put it another way:

My comment had nothing to do with lists.
Fact is, numerous posts have already proven your comments as well as opinion to be false.
You had no rebuttal for Turkey ( who absolutely shredded you)?
It doesn't really take any list or essentially more then 6 words.

Whiteside and Gobert are near equal.

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

And ohh- planning on being an attorney. I proved I could handle the work.

No. All you proved was you're full of shit and become a chickenshit little bitch when the going gets tough.

 

[WiggyRuss]

My comment had nothing to do with lists.
Fact is, numerous posts have already proven your comments as well as opinion to be false.
You had no rebuttal for Turkey ( who absolutely shredded you)?
It doesn't really take any list or essentially more then 6 words.

Whiteside and Gobert are near equal.

gms, coaches, general managers, players everywhere would laugh in your face

and i did reply to turkey

can you read?

to paraphrase

1 year might be a fluke

2 might be a coincedence

3 years----is a trend- quit putting your head in the sand----- -- the guy is a wealthy mans Jonas Valucuinas.

Gobert, Gasol, Cousins-- those are elite guys

Gortat, Howard, Valunciunas, Whiteside---- thats the tier he belongs in.


you trade Whiteside for Gobert you think the Jazz win 51 in the West? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

Whiteside couldnt even "lead" (i put lead in quotes becuase its hilarious to think of Whiteside leading anyone) to the 8 spot in the East. lol.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard
26. IT

Tier 5 Sometime All Stars, talented up and comers- Guys that would be #3, maybe #2 in a "Big 3"

27. Love
28. Jokic
29. Porzingis
30. Jordan
31. Conley
32. Kemba
33. Aldridge
34. McCollum
35. Horford
36. Milsap
37. Beal

Tier 6 Guys who are usually right below that all star level or need more development to become All star level

38. Bradley
39. Middleton
40. Bledsoe
41. Dragic
42, Booker
42. Otto Porter Jr.
43. A. Wiggins
44. Barnes
45. Oladipo
46. M. Turner

Tier 7 Great Role Players, Former Stars You still gotta respect, Unreached Potential

47. H. Whiteside
48. D. Schroeder
48. E. Gordon
49. D. Howard
50. Carmelo
51. D. Wade
52. A. Drummond
53. S. Adams
54. N. Noel
56. N. Vucevic
57. Z. Lavine
58. J. Crowder
59. D. Nowitski
60. J. Redick
61. B. Simmons
62. D. Schroeder
63. J. Holliday
64. J. Teague
65. R. Rubio
66. C. Capela
67. J. Parker
68. D. Gallinari
69. P. Beverly
70. G. Hill
71. D. Waiters
72. D. Favors
73. M. Fultz
74. JR Smith
75. T. Thompson

(didnt want to rank so many, but wanted to finish the tier)

You have IHOP on annual all star level.
I'll bet you anything you'd like he's not in this years game.
If you won't take the bet, then you've proven you don't believe your list.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

gms, coaches, general managers, players everywhere would laugh in your face

and i did reply to turkey

can you read?

to paraphrase

1 year might be a fluke

2 might be a coincedence

3 years----is a trend- quit putting your head in the sand----- -- the guy is a wealthy mans Jonas Valucuinas.

Gobert, Gasol, Cousins-- those are elite guys

Gortat, Howard, Valunciunas, Whiteside---- thats the tier he belongs in.


you trade Whiteside for Gobert you think the Jazz win 51 in the West? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

Whiteside couldnt even "lead" (i put lead in quotes becuase its hilarious to think of Whiteside leading anyone) to the 8 spot in the East. lol.

I quoted 6 coaches who in essence said you are full of shit.
Find any coaches quote who agrees with you.
You addressed one part of Turkeys post.
You totally ignored the rest where you were shredded.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

gms, coaches, general managers, players everywhere would laugh in your face

and i did reply to turkey

can you read?

to paraphrase

1 year might be a fluke

2 might be a coincedence

3 years----is a trend- quit putting your head in the sand----- -- the guy is a wealthy mans Jonas Valucuinas.

Gobert, Gasol, Cousins-- those are elite guys

Gortat, Howard, Valunciunas, Whiteside---- thats the tier he belongs in.


you trade Whiteside for Gobert you think the Jazz win 51 in the West? HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAH

Whiteside couldnt even "lead" (i put lead in quotes becuase its hilarious to think of Whiteside leading anyone) to the 8 spot in the East. lol.

Jazz would be no worse with Whiteside.
You think the Heat is going 30-11 the second half with Gobert vs Whiteside?
I don't.

 

[msgkings322]

@WiggyRuss , you may be making a big mistake becoming a lawyer in this day and age:

Lawyers could be the next profession to be replaced by computers

 

[trojanfan12]

Does anyone want to guess what I'm about to say to wiggy?

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

Tier 1 "The King" Division
1. LeBron James

Tier 2 True Franchise Player Division
2. RW
3. Durant
4. Kawhi
5. Curry
6. Harden

Tier 3 High Level All stars that are franchise players- just not the best
7. Cp3
8. Giannis
9. Wall
10. Davos
11. Towns
12. George
13. Butler

Tier 4 Yearly All Star Level talents
14. Draymond
15. Irving
16. Klay
17. Cousins
18. Gasol
19. Griffin
20. Lowry
21. Embiid
22. Gobert
23. DeRozan
24. Hayward
25. Lillard
26. IT

Tier 5 Sometime All Stars, talented up and comers- Guys that would be #3, maybe #2 in a "Big 3"

27. Love
28. Jokic
29. Porzingis
30. Jordan
31. Conley
32. Kemba
33. Aldridge
34. McCollum
35. Horford
36. Milsap
37. Beal

Tier 6 Guys who are usually right below that all star level or need more development to become All star level

38. Bradley
39. Middleton
40. Bledsoe
41. Dragic
42, Booker
42. Otto Porter Jr.
43. A. Wiggins
44. Barnes
45. Oladipo
46. M. Turner

Tier 7 Great Role Players, Former Stars You still gotta respect, Unreached Potential

47. H. Whiteside
48. D. Schroeder
48. E. Gordon
49. D. Howard
50. Carmelo
51. D. Wade
52. A. Drummond
53. S. Adams
54. N. Noel
56. N. Vucevic
57. Z. Lavine
58. J. Crowder
59. D. Nowitski
60. J. Redick
61. B. Simmons
62. D. Schroeder
63. J. Holliday
64. J. Teague
65. R. Rubio
66. C. Capela
67. J. Parker
68. D. Gallinari
69. P. Beverly
70. G. Hill
71. D. Waiters
72. D. Favors
73. M. Fultz
74. JR Smith
75. T. Thompson

(didnt want to rank so many, but wanted to finish the tier)

Fairly certain you had Irving in tier two, only a couple of months ago? What changed?

Fucking hypocrite. You're just like @HurricaneDij39 and his sudden hatred of PG13!

 

[trojanfan12]

You had no rebuttal for Turkey ( who absolutely shredded you)?

Not only does he have no rebuttal, but he keeps posting the same shit that wildturkey already shredded. I don't think he understands the game well enough to know that his argument has been shredded.

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

Not only does he have no rebuttal, but he keeps posting the same shit that wildturkey already shredded. I don't think he understands the game well enough to know that his argument has been shredded.

Maybe he'll make a list of reasons that prove he understands the game?

 

[WiggyRuss]

I quoted 6 coaches who in essence said you are full of shit.
Find any coaches quote who agrees with you.
You addressed one part of Turkeys post.
You totally ignored the rest where you were shredded.

lol..

dude- you can find nice quotes about just about ANYONE i nthe entire league

you want me to find some ones about Tristan Thompson?

and cite those as evidence he is better than a guy like Gobert?

laughable.

a joke and laughable.

hey--- as i said- Miami doesnt suck- they arent good-- but they dont suck

a nice, decent team- capped out, least draft assets in the league, no premier talent....finished somewhere between 6th and 10th in the East...some where betweeen 36 and 45 games depending on luck, injuries etc.........a snowballs chance in hell of getting out of the first round

hey- i know thats cool with you-- ENJOY. lol.