Wiggys Hopes and Dreams

[Heatles84]

Once again, this is not true or at the very least, misleading. The defensive rating line up splits are all at team average (5th in the league btw, so damn good) or higher with Whiteside on the floor. His defensive win shares are top 5 in the league as is his personal defensive rating. The one stat that is an outlier is his personal defensive BPM, which is lower than some of his contemporaries. But, as one of your quotes stated, its an on/off measurement and those can be noisy. But that's why smart people don't just rely on one stat when evaluating players. Considering that he has two other stats in his favor and absolutely dominates the 5 man lineups (up to 9 different lineups above team average feature him), it's pretty safe to assume he's a damn good defensive player that makes a huge impact for the Heat. And its further validated when you actually watch the games because the advanced tools match what you see (that is, if you know what to look for, or in your case, even bother to watch a basketball game)

Conversely, the real reason Whiteside should be ranked around where he is, is his offense. All metrics point to him being merely average to subpar...which if you watch the games, also matches. He's dependent on others for the majority of his offense.

@WiggyRuss, ol' wildturkey just shredded your shit argument, you simp.

 

[Heatles84]

Wiggy sure does spend a lot of time analyzing Whiteside...While I give Whiteside more credit than he does (I had him ranked #35), his hatred for Whiteside is starting to rub off on me a little bit...

(Of course I've always hated the Heat anyway)

No one cares.

 

[bksballer89]

And all this talk about Gobert, let's see what he does without Hayward. That team will miss out on the playoffs. If you're truly a top 15 player then you should be able to lead your team to the playoffs.

The ESPN list is shit. No way are you going to tell me Gobert is better than guys like Wall, Klay, Dame, Kyrie, or etc.

 

[Heatles84]

And all this talk about Gobert, let's see what he does without Hayward. That team will miss out on the playoffs. If you're truly a top 15 player then you should be able to lead your team to the playoffs.

The ESPN list is shit. No way are you going to tell me Gobert is better than guys like Wall, Klay, Dame, Kyrie, or etc.

I thought the same thing. Gobert's a fine defensive player. But he's not at the same level as any of the guys mentioned. Gobert's around 20-30 in my own personal rankings; which appear to be more level-headed and logical then ESPN and SI.

 

[tlance]

And all this talk about Gobert, let's see what he does without Hayward. That team will miss out on the playoffs. If you're truly a top 15 player then you should be able to lead your team to the playoffs.

The ESPN list is shit. No way are you going to tell me Gobert is better than guys like Wall, Klay, Dame, Kyrie, or etc.

Not sure man.

Hell, Davis and Cousins are top 15 teammates and they can't reach the playoffs.

There is a very small group of players (less than 5) capable of leading a team to the playoffs regardless of surrounding talent. Gobert definitely isn't one of those, but he still could be top 15 or 20 overall. Just hard to rate players who dominate the defensive side of the ball and aren't elite offensively.

 

[Black Adam]

You need to get laid, tons-o-fun!

The same could be said for you with your weird obsession with Wiggy and Hurricane.

she's married with kids. my guess is she's ok in that regard...

 

[tlance]

she's married with kids. my guess is she's ok in that regard...

Not necessarily. Just saying.

 

[Black Adam]

Not necessarily. Just saying.

lol well, i'm not gonna ask...

 

[TurnUpTheHeat]

And all this talk about Gobert, let's see what he does without Hayward. That team will miss out on the playoffs. If you're truly a top 15 player then you should be able to lead your team to the playoffs.

The ESPN list is shit. No way are you going to tell me Gobert is better than guys like Wall, Klay, Dame, Kyrie, or etc.

My intent was never to diminish what Gobert does.
He's good. I like him.
However, as one could make a case for Gobert>Whiteside, a case can be made the other way also.
For Wiggly to say there is a major difference in their abilities just once again proves what we all already know.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

True. But I'm bored right now and the season is still a month away. If I can't watch lay ups on my TV, I'll just get them Wasting my breath on Wiggy

FIFY

 

[True Lakers Fan]

My intent was never to diminish what Gobert does.
He's good. I like him.
However, as one could make a case for Gobert>Whiteside, a case can be made the other way also.
For Wiggly to say there is a major difference in their abilities just once again proves what we all already know.

I picked up Gobert for my fantasy team, but was looking for Whiteside and would have taken him over Gobert every day of the week. My reason is simple 14 pts and 12 rebounds -26 points per game for me - That's Gobert. 17 pts and 14 rebounds = 31 points from Whiteside and 2 blocks to bring it up 33. The blocks is less then 1 per player and the turnovers are the same. It comes down to one thing for me - I want production.

I wonder if that is how the coaches think

 

[True Lakers Fan]

What'd I miss yesterday?

Visiting my dad.

I hope you had a good time with him and he is well. Cherish him every minute possible

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

she's married with kids. my guess is she's ok in that regard...

No, not really

 

[Shaqdaddy11]

The same could be said for you with your weird obsession with Wiggy and Hurricane.

Are you still upset because I called you a twatwaffel the other day, princess?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

No one cares.

What's funny is the person calling out Wiggy for his obsession is the same one who has been obsessed with you and glance. they must live in their own little twilight zone

 

[ManuForever]

It wouldn't be a Wiggy thread without a bashing of Hassan Whiteside!

 

[tlance]

I picked up Gobert for my fantasy team, but was looking for Whiteside and would have taken him over Gobert every day of the week. My reason is simple 14 pts and 12 rebounds -26 points per game for me - That's Gobert. 17 pts and 14 rebounds = 31 points from Whiteside and 2 blocks to bring it up 33. The blocks is less then 1 per player and the turnovers are the same. It comes down to one thing for me - I want production.

I wonder if that is how the coaches think

Sure. Whiteside is the better fantasy player in points formats. In category leagues though, I am not sure that is true.

In real life, I think just about everybody would take Gobert over Whiteside, but it is pretty close and their skill sets are comparable.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Sure. Whiteside is the better fantasy player in points formats. In category leagues though, I am not sure that is true.

In real life, I think just about everybody would take Gobert over Whiteside, but it is pretty close and their skill sets are comparable.

It looks like to me Gobert has the potential to become a lot better

 

[WiggyRuss]

Once again, this is not true or at the very least, misleading. The defensive rating line up splits are all at team average (5th in the league btw, so damn good) or higher with Whiteside on the floor. His defensive win shares are top 5 in the league as is his personal defensive rating. The one stat that is an outlier is his personal defensive BPM, which is lower than some of his contemporaries. But, as one of your quotes stated, its an on/off measurement and those can be noisy. But that's why smart people don't just rely on one stat when evaluating players. Considering that he has two other stats in his favor and absolutely dominates the 5 man lineups (up to 9 different lineups above team average feature him), it's pretty safe to assume he's a damn good defensive player that makes a huge impact for the Heat. And its further validated when you actually watch the games because the advanced tools match what you see (that is, if you know what to look for, or in your case, even bother to watch a basketball game)

Conversely, the real reason Whiteside should be ranked around where he is, is his offense. All metrics point to him being merely average to subpar...which if you watch the games, also matches. He's dependent on others for the majority of his offense.

oh it can be "noisy" no doubt

and as i said - NBA advanced stats- are definitely not definitive.


when you have trends that occur in 3 straight years though- that usually tells you something


the quote:

On/off court splits can be noisy, but this is now three straight seasons in which Miami's defense has posted a better defensive rating with it's anchor on the bench rather than on the floor.



once okay- could be a fluke....twice...coincedence? prob not, but sure--- maybe.....three seasons in a row?

When it happens 3 seasons in a row the "noise" begins to fade away- and you just have the truth.


Whiteside is a lot closer to Jonas Valunciunas and Marcin Gortat and Dwight Howard---- then to actual elite players like Marc Gasol, DeMarcus Cousins, Rudy Gobert, etc.----- he is Shareef Abdul Rahim- a stat stuffer that just doesnt help you win.

Its really hard for a center that (i) cant pass, (ii) cant shoot, and (iii) cant guard the perimeter, to have a substantial impact in todays pace and space shooting NBA. Whiteside is one of those guys who cant do any of those 3 things. Hes terrible at them.

1 year could be a fluke i guess
2 years could be a coincedence i guess
3 years is awful hard to just brush away as bullshit---- but thats what the flamingo's around here like to do- put their head in the sand.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Gobert isn't a top 15 player. If you believe that, you're crazier than I thought you were.

Back to defending the ratings when they suit your point, but in general bashing them?

I didn't say I believed Gobert was a top 15 player.

I actually did a list of my top 75 players not too long ago.