Who's your pick for the four playoff teams?

[TrustMeIamRight]

So your excuse is that your kids are all a bunch of liberal pussies.

That is your response?

I know fully understand why you have been called a bandwagon fan by others.

 

[bamabear82]

So your excuse is that your kids are all a bunch of liberal pussies.

Anything to divert from the fact Harbs had more combine invites than any other school in the country and still couldn't do better than 3rd in his division.

 

[7Samurai13]

Anything to divert from the fact Harbs had more combine invites than any other school in the country and still couldn't do better than 3rd in his division.

They weren't his recruits so they have no talent. Some Michigan fans have been very adamant that the cupboards were empty in Ann Arbor when Harbaugh got there and we need to wait to judge him until after his guys get there.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

They weren't his recruits so they have no talent. Some Michigan fans have been very adamant that the cupboards were empty in Ann Arbor when Harbaugh got there and we need to wait to judge him until after his guys get there.

I know you never heard me say that. And I'd think as a Michigan State fan, you'd understand the importance of the QB position. MSU can look no further than their QB play on why they were 3-9. THAT is what was bare when Harbaugh got to UM.

I know the statement I made was: I didn't expect much out of UM until Harbaugh gets one of his own QB's under center. When Harbaugh got on campus -- Shane Morris was the top returning QB.

 

[7Samurai13]

I know you never heard me say that. And I'd think as a Michigan State fan, you'd understand the importance of the QB position. MSU can look no further than their QB play on why they were 3-9. THAT is what was bare when Harbaugh got to UM.

I know the statement I made was: I didn't expect much out of UM until Harbaugh gets one of his own QB's under center. When Harbaugh got on campus -- Shane Morris was the top returning QB.

There were several michigan fans here who said that there was no talent here when Harbaugh got there and that was why to judge his first couple years on him. Obviously there was talent here despite the denials and obviously those two years of top ten classes were a big reason for his success at Michigan his first two years. He can no longer use the excuse of QB's because this is his third recruiting class and now it's time to put up or shut up. He did not have a depleted team and has two full classes of his guys on the team. Every other major program can get production out of their freshmen and sophomores and if Harbaugh is as good as Michigan fans want to tell us he is, then he needs to finish higher than third in the division.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Anything to divert from the fact Harbs had more combine invites than any other school in the country and still couldn't do better than 3rd in his division.

There is nothing to divert? The two schools who finished ahead of UM was #6 and #7 in the country in the final AP poll. UM didn't have the QB play at the end of the year to be worthy of a playoff spot.

They held Iowa to 11 points. Speight missed wide open receivers all game.

They held OSU to 3 points from their offense. Speight hit wide open OSU defensive backs for touchdowns.

And PSU -- UM beat them by like 30 and emptied their bench in the 3rd quarter with it 35-0.

Isn't a secret -- teams figured out to stack the box and force Speight to beat you. He hurt his throwing shoulder against Iowa and never looked good the rest of the year.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

There were several michigan fans here who said that there was no talent here when Harbaugh got there and that was why to judge his first couple years on him. Obviously there was talent here despite the denials and obviously those two years of top ten classes were a big reason for his success at Michigan his first two years. He can no longer use the excuse of QB's because this is his third recruiting class and now it's time to put up or shut up. He did not have a depleted team and has two full classes of his guys on the team. Every other major program can get production out of their freshmen and sophomores and if Harbaugh is as good as Michigan fans want to tell us he is, then he needs to finish higher than third in the division.

You continue to talk about the top classes brought in by Hoke. Have you looked at the classes? The top guys were terrible. Many flopped and never even saw the field. It is the lower ranked guys who developed into tremendous players, which is why I'm guessing you see everyone all at once graduating or leaving for the NFL. They were all seniors or 5th year seniors.

Khalid Hill was ranked 650th out of HS
Delano Hill was ranked 305th out of HS
Channing Stribbling was ranked 582nd out of HS
Maurice Hurst was ranked 258th out of HS

Derrick Green, Chris Fox, Shane Morris, Patrick Kugler, David Dawson were 5 of the top 6 recruits from the top 4 recruiting class. None of them played any meaningful snaps. Green, Morris and Dawson all transferred out to play elsewhere.

Jehu Chesson was ranked 639th out of HS
Willie Henry was ranked 939th out of HS
Matt Godin was ranked 374th out of HS
Ryan Glasgow was unranked out of HS
Amarah Darboh was 238th out of HS

Ondre Pipkins was great for UM until the doctors wouldn't clear him to play after multiple concussions. Kyle Kalis and Eric Magnusson never lived up to their rankings. Terry Richardson never saw the field. Tom Strobel was a career backup.

The reason those two classes were ranked so high is because of the number of recruits brought in. The 'elite' recruits mostly flopped though. The guys who stayed got better each year, with the exception of maybe the OL. They were serviceable, but were terrible against anyone with a decent DL.

 

[7Samurai13]

You continue to talk about the top classes brought in by Hoke. Have you looked at the classes? The top guys were terrible. Many flopped and never even saw the field. It is the lower ranked guys who developed into tremendous players, which is why I'm guessing you see everyone all at once graduating or leaving for the NFL. They were all seniors or 5th year seniors.

Khalid Hill was ranked 650th out of HS
Delano Hill was ranked 305th out of HS
Channing Stribbling was ranked 582nd out of HS
Maurice Hurst was ranked 258th out of HS

Derrick Green, Chris Fox, Shane Morris, Patrick Kugler, David Dawson were 5 of the top 6 recruits from the top 4 recruiting class. None of them played any meaningful snaps. Green, Morris and Dawson all transferred out to play elsewhere.

Jehu Chesson was ranked 639th out of HS
Willie Henry was ranked 939th out of HS
Matt Godin was ranked 374th out of HS
Ryan Glasgow was unranked out of HS
Amarah Darboh was 238th out of HS

Ondre Pipkins was great for UM until the doctors wouldn't clear him to play after multiple concussions. Kyle Kalis and Eric Magnusson never lived up to their rankings. Terry Richardson never saw the field. Tom Strobel was a career backup.

The reason those two classes were ranked so high is because of the number of recruits brought in. The 'elite' recruits mostly flopped though. The guys who stayed got better each year, with the exception of maybe the OL. They were serviceable, but were terrible against anyone with a decent DL.

You had 14 of those recruits at the combine.
F O U R T E E N ! ! ! ! !

There was talent in the class. They had poor coaching and were the reason for their flops but are going to tell me that the FOURTEEN players that were at the combine were Harbaugh's recruits? Or did they largely come from those two top ten classes that Hoke brought in? You do know that Rivals only ranks the first 20 recruits right? So after that they drop the lowest ranked players. So if they bring in 28-30 recruits, the bottom 8 or 10 recruits are dropped off. If there was not any talent why did Harbaugh have them starting? Are you suggesting that at the end of the year he didn't have his top players playing the most time?

F O U R T E E N ! ! ! !

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You had 14 of those recruits at the combine.
F O U R T E E N ! ! ! ! !

There was talent in the class. They had poor coaching and were the reason for their flops but are going to tell me that the FOURTEEN players that were at the combine were Harbaugh's recruits? Or did they largely come from those two top ten classes that Hoke brought in? You do know that Rivals only ranks the first 20 recruits right? So after that they drop the lowest ranked players. So if they bring in 28-30 recruits, the bottom 8 or 10 recruits are dropped off. If there was not any talent why did Harbaugh have them starting? Are you suggesting that at the end of the year he didn't have his top players playing the most time?

F O U R T E E N ! ! ! !

One, I don't even look at Rivals or ESPN. 247 gives you the composite.

Two, I never said UM had no talent on the roster. I said they had no QB's on the roster.

Three, Did you watch the Iowa game? They lost for one reason and one reason only. Wilton Speight. He had wide open receivers and missed them all game long. Iowa stacked the box and left their CB's on an island. Doesn't matter if you have 21 guys going to the combine if the 22nd is the QB and he plays horribly. Same with OSU. Against OSU and Iowa -- UM's defense gave up 14 points total or the same amount of points Speight gave to OSU.

It was the same story with FSU. Speight was horrendous the majority of the game until late.

I will say it again. I would think a MSU team would understand how a QB dictates much of the success, no matter how much talent you have around them. Do you think MSU should have been 3-9 last year with the talent they had on the team?

 

[7Samurai13]

One, I don't even look at Rivals or ESPN. 247 gives you the composite.

Two, I never said UM had no talent on the roster. I said they had no QB's on the roster.

Three, Did you watch the Iowa game? They lost for one reason and one reason only. Wilton Speight. He had wide open receivers and missed them all game long. Iowa stacked the box and left their CB's on an island. Doesn't matter if you have 21 guys going to the combine if the 22nd is the QB and he plays horribly. Same with OSU. Against OSU and Iowa -- UM's defense gave up 14 points total or the same amount of points Speight gave to OSU.

It was the same story with FSU. Speight was horrendous the majority of the game until late.

I will say it again. I would think a MSU team would understand how a QB dictates much of the success, no matter how much talent you have around them. Do you think MSU should have been 3-9 last year with the talent they had on the team?

You may not have been the one saying it, but you are the one is keeps talking about all the flops, that every program has some, and completely ignoring the fact the number of players that hit.

Michigan State should not have been 3-9 last season but I'm not going to give the coaching staff a free pass on this. It is their fault and there was failures in all aspects of the team; offense, defense, and special teams. That is on the coaches, not the quarterback. Our merry-go-round of quarterbacks did not let Northwestern put up 50 on us. QB did not make the decision to go for 2 against Michigan for meaningless points when the onside kick was infinitely more important. The quarterback did not choose to go for two against Ohio State at home. That's on the coaches. Michigan fans are going to give Harbaugh another free pass this year if he doesn't win the division because he doesn't have "his quarterback" three years into the program. If he is such a great recruiter and a quarterback savant, this should not be an excuse for this season.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

You may not have been the one saying it, but you are the one is keeps talking about all the flops, that every program has some, and completely ignoring the fact the number of players that hit.

Michigan State should not have been 3-9 last season but I'm not going to give the coaching staff a free pass on this. It is their fault and there was failures in all aspects of the team; offense, defense, and special teams. That is on the coaches, not the quarterback. Our merry-go-round of quarterbacks did not let Northwestern put up 50 on us. QB did not make the decision to go for 2 against Michigan for meaningless points when the onside kick was infinitely more important. The quarterback did not choose to go for two against Ohio State at home. That's on the coaches. Michigan fans are going to give Harbaugh another free pass this year if he doesn't win the division because he doesn't have "his quarterback" three years into the program. If he is such a great recruiter and a quarterback savant, this should not be an excuse for this season.

MSU's record had nothing to do with 2 point conversion tries. The Michigan 2 point try meant absolutely nothing. I have no issue with the 2 point try on OSU, though it was very aggressive, but it isn't like MSU was playing for anything?

Tyler O'Connor was basically Devin Gardner, minus the ability to run. He could put up numbers against garbage defenses and was overwhelmed against any team who could play an ounce of defense.

And this upcoming season will be the first chance one of Harbaugh's QB recruits even have a chance to win the job. Also -- I'd say he has done quite well with the QB's he has had. Jake Ruddock came as a graduate transfer after losing his job at Iowa -- he ended up drafted in the NFL and the Lions have said the backup QB job is his right now after dropping Orvlosky. Same goes for Speight -- prior his collarbone injury in the 1st quarter against Iowa -- he was playing great. After that injury, he looked horrible.

 

[7Samurai13]

MSU's record had nothing to do with 2 point conversion tries. The Michigan 2 point try meant absolutely nothing. I have no issue with the 2 point try on OSU, though it was very aggressive, but it isn't like MSU was playing for anything?

Tyler O'Connor was basically Devin Gardner, minus the ability to run. He could put up numbers against garbage defenses and was overwhelmed against any team who could play an ounce of defense.

And this upcoming season will be the first chance one of Harbaugh's QB recruits even have a chance to win the job. Also -- I'd say he has done quite well with the QB's he has had. Jake Ruddock came as a graduate transfer after losing his job at Iowa -- he ended up drafted in the NFL and the Lions have said the backup QB job is his right now after dropping Orvlosky. Same goes for Speight -- prior his collarbone injury in the 1st quarter against Iowa -- he was playing great. After that injury, he looked horrible.

I was pointing out several mistakes the coaching staff made off the top of my head without even looking at game film that has nothing to do with quarterbacks, that is purely coaching mistakes. Many of the Michigan fans here, refuse to admit that Harbaugh has made any mistakes.

Did you really just say the Speight looked great? Yes he put up huge numbers against Rutgers and Hawaii after the traveled half way around the world and were playing at 6am Hawaii time. But if you really feel that Speight looks "great" no one wants to hear you complain about how we need to give Harbaugh a chance to get "his quarterback" in since Speight is "great."

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

I was pointing out several mistakes the coaching staff made off the top of my head without even looking at game film that has nothing to do with quarterbacks, that is purely coaching mistakes. Many of the Michigan fans here, refuse to admit that Harbaugh has made any mistakes.

Did you really just say the Speight looked great? Yes he put up huge numbers against Rutgers and Hawaii after the traveled half way around the world and were playing at 6am Hawaii time. But if you really feel that Speight looks "great" no one wants to hear you complain about how we need to give Harbaugh a chance to get "his quarterback" in since Speight is "great."

Yes, Speight did look great early. He had completed 65% of his passes with 15 tds and 3 ints. He wasn't being asked to do too much and was very good throwing the ball downfield. It was the reason he was one of the semi finalists for the Davey O'Brien trophy for top QB in CFB.

Iowa sold out and stacked the box to take away the run and forced Speight to make the throws to beat them. He couldn't do it. Same with the last two games, but FSU and OSU didn't need to stack the box to pressure as they were both extremely talented upfront. Speight struggled to make the throws he had made most of the year.

Did the broken collarbone have something to do with it? Who knows? Did he struggle with the bright lights and playing on the road? Could be. Did it have to do with the secondaries he faced thru the first couple months? Possibly.

This year will be quite telling. It will be the first time a Harbaugh recruit has had a chance to win the QB job. If Speight beats out Brandon Peters -- I think the shoulder injury had a hand in the late season struggles.

 

[4down20]

That is your response?

I know fully understand why you have been called a bandwagon fan by others.

What's to respond to? You continue to completely overstate the advantages of in-state recruits in the face of so many other factors. Meanwhile, I remember Alabama before Saban. We were lucky to get a 5 star once every 3 or 4 years, despite this so-called advantage you talk of. Why? Because we weren't a big program that was winning all the time, even though the school was in the exact same location. We weren't even bringing in top20 recruiting classes and our program was in rough shape before Saban. Most people saw Alabama as basically done for.

Is it supposed to be my fault you aren't capable of taking in more than 1 factor at a time or recognizing the more important factors that are involved in recruiting? With all the shit you say, we should have been recruiting even better during the Shula years rather than losing recruits to Florida and LSU all the time(who were the programs winning all the time back then).

I still remember what a big deal it was to get Julio Jones. But according to you, that was easy because he was from Alabama. He was our 2nd 5 star since they started doing that stuff. The other was Andre Smith, the only 5 star of the Shula era. We signed 2 more 5 stars in that class with Julio, neither ever saw the field.

Back before Saban, we were lucky to sign 4 stars. Most of our players were all 3 stars.

So your so called advantage is just some shit you make up to feel better about things. It's obvious to me that there was a huge difference in recruiting, and I'm 100% sure Alabama is still at the same location.

 

[7Samurai13]

What's to respond to? You continue to completely overstate the advantages of in-state recruits in the face of so many other factors. Meanwhile, I remember Alabama before Saban. We were lucky to get a 5 star once every 3 or 4 years, despite this so-called advantage you talk of. Why? Because we weren't a big program that was winning all the time, even though the school was in the exact same location. We weren't even bringing in top20 recruiting classes and our program was in rough shape before Saban. Most people saw Alabama as basically done for.

Is it supposed to be my fault you aren't capable of taking in more than 1 factor at a time or recognizing the more important factors that are involved in recruiting? With all the shit you say, we should have been recruiting even better during the Shula years rather than losing recruits to Florida and LSU all the time(who were the programs winning all the time back then).

I still remember what a big deal it was to get Julio Jones. But according to you, that was easy because he was from Alabama. He was our 2nd 5 star since they started doing that stuff. The other was Andre Smith, the only 5 star of the Shula era. We signed 2 more 5 stars in that class with Julio, neither ever saw the field.

Back before Saban, we were lucky to sign 4 stars. Most of our players were all 3 stars.

So your so called advantage is just some shit you make up to feel better about things. It's obvious to me that there was a huge difference in recruiting, and I'm 100% sure Alabama is still at the same location.

There's players higher than 3 stars? What the hell is this bullshit, Dantonio? You's a lyin sumabitch!!!

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

What's to respond to? You continue to completely overstate the advantages of in-state recruits in the face of so many other factors. Meanwhile, I remember Alabama before Saban. We were lucky to get a 5 star once every 3 or 4 years, despite this so-called advantage you talk of. Why? Because we weren't a big program that was winning all the time, even though the school was in the exact same location. We weren't even bringing in top20 recruiting classes and our program was in rough shape before Saban. Most people saw Alabama as basically done for.

Is it supposed to be my fault you aren't capable of taking in more than 1 factor at a time or recognizing the more important factors that are involved in recruiting? With all the shit you say, we should have been recruiting even better during the Shula years rather than losing recruits to Florida and LSU all the time(who were the programs winning all the time back then).

I still remember what a big deal it was to get Julio Jones. But according to you, that was easy because he was from Alabama. He was our 2nd 5 star since they started doing that stuff. The other was Andre Smith, the only 5 star of the Shula era. We signed 2 more 5 stars in that class with Julio, neither ever saw the field.

Back before Saban, we were lucky to sign 4 stars. Most of our players were all 3 stars.

So your so called advantage is just some shit you make up to feel better about things. It's obvious to me that there was a huge difference in recruiting, and I'm 100% sure Alabama is still at the same location.

It is priceless to hear a 'CFB fan' say Programs don't have an advantage recruiting in state players. Just so I can laugh some more -- let me guess, it also isn't an advantage to have your recruits grow up watching one conference almost exclusively? It isn't an advantage to have recruits grow up as a fan of a team? It isn't an advantage to be a blue blood school?

And it has been said by me and everyone else on here -- Saban is the best recruiter in CFB. If you put him at a school like MSU, he is never getting a recruiting class like he can in the SEC and especially like he can at Alabama. Why is that?

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

There's players higher than 3 stars? What the hell is this bullshit, Dantonio? You's a lyin sumabitch!!!

I still laugh about the headline prior to the Bama/MSU CFP game. They called it the battle of the 5 star vs 3 star.

 

[7Samurai13]

I still laugh about the headline prior to the Bama/MSU CFP game. They called it the battle of the 5 star vs 3 star.

Well the difference in the number of their 5 stars vs our 5 stars is probably greater than the number of 3 star recruits they had total, so I'd say it's pretty accurate.

 

[4down20]

It is priceless to hear a 'CFB fan' say Programs don't have an advantage recruiting in state players. Just so I can laugh some more -- let me guess, it also isn't an advantage to have your recruits grow up watching one conference almost exclusively? It isn't an advantage to have recruits grow up as a fan of a team? It isn't an advantage to be a blue blood school?

And it has been said by me and everyone else on here -- Saban is the best recruiter in CFB. If you put him at a school like MSU, he is never getting a recruiting class like he can in the SEC and especially like he can at Alabama. Why is that?

I never said they didn't have an advantage. I've said that the top recruits go to places that give them the best opportunity. And I showed you the big difference in Alabama recruiting.

You have to take what I say to the extreme because you know you ain't really got shit to say.

 

[TrustMeIamRight]

Well the difference in the number of their 5 stars vs our 5 stars is probably greater than the number of 3 star recruits they had total, so I'd say it's pretty accurate.

Without a doubt. I believe it said MSU had 0 five star recruits and Bama had like 28 five star guys.
Crazy how much Dantonio has done with less. I wonder what he could do with recruiting classes he could bring in elesewhere?