What's Next For The Lakers?

[LogicMan]

The situation with the Lakers is systemic. Poor decisions from trades to free agents to coaches to inability to act at crucial times (Kobe). Criticizing players from the front office not to sharp either.

TLance defines some of the situation well. Most concerning is their bottom of the barrel defense culture which is actually worse this year than last. Young players are developing without priority on fundamentals.

The issue is ownership, and the GM. An overhaul is needed. Will the Buss's stand behind their statements about stepping down now that the promise by Jim is not coming due?

Its management and vision. I actually think the break up of the Buss girl and Phil could now allow Phil to come in and clean it all up.

 

[GNG]

So the news of the breakup between Jeanie and Phil effectively puts to bed the theory that Jim Buss would be removed from his position as head of basketball operations and replaced by Phil after the season.

So, that begs the question...What next?

Under the terms that Dr. Buss set up, Jeanie is in charge of the business side of the Lakers and Jim is in charge of basketball operations. However, it was also set up so that Jeanie holds the ultimate authority and can remove her brother from his position as head of basketball operations.

So, does she hold him to his self imposed timeline of 3 years and let him go at the end of this season? He has started hedging a bit and saying that he said 3 or 4 years. Does she give him one more year based on that?

Also, what happens to Mitch Kupchak who is one of the more respected GM's in the league?

Jeanie should give Kupchak more authority in my opinion. His hands are tied now.

 

[GNG]

As far as running the team and how much power each sibling has, Jeanie has the final say on everything.

This is most likely the main problem.

 

[trojanfan12]

That's completely fair, I just don't think you are giving the Lakers core enough credit, and you may believe I'm giving them a bit too much. The Lakers are young, really young, and yet it feels like you believe that you've figured out their ceilings and exactly how good they're going to be already.

Haven't you heard?...he looks at stats without watching any games. That's all he needs because he "reads and is ridiculously more informed than anyone else here."

 

[trojanfan12]

The problem that I think some of you are missing is this:

By the time Deng and Mozgov come off the books, the Laker kids will all be making 20 million plus a year. The window for them to add a free agent is in the next 2 summers. They probably will not have the cap space unless they can unload Deng and Mozgov.

I don't mind that they paid them, what sucks is that they signed both to long term deals. Forgoing the opportunity to at least pursue free agents means that the Lakers are essentially banking on all 3 of Russell, Randle and Ingram reaching their ceilings. While that path could lead them to be a contender if all 3 excel, it is more likely that they fall short.

They can make trades as well. I don't see it happening because I think the Bulls would want more, but Cowherd was floating Nance and Clarkson for Butler.

 

[trojanfan12]

The situation with the Lakers is systemic. Poor decisions from trades to free agents

Disagree. Not getting free agents isn't a poor decision. It's free agents choosing to go someplace else where they have a better chance of winning now. There haven't been any poor trades. The Dwight/Nash deal blew up in their face, but pretty much everyone said that it was the right move at the time and put them right back in the title hunt. It was bad luck that Nash's body fell apart on him because of a couple of freak injuries. He had played all star caliber basketball the previous season. Also, not the Lakers fault that Dwight decided to act like the world's tallest 2 year old when he arrived.

Subsequent trades are how they have managed to put together part of their young core.

As for Kobe, they did what they needed to do to keep butts in seats and continue to make money. When Magic had to retire early and didn't get to have his farewell tour, Jeanie decided that if they ever had that level of player again, she would make sure he got a proper sendoff. Not going to criticize her for that.

Also disagree about developing players without fundamentals. That may have been true under Scott, but not with Luke. The Lakers core is extremely young and young teams always struggle on defense. Luke also isn't putting a priority on wins and losses this year and therefore is experimenting with lineups. It's hard to develop defensive consistency and communication when that's happening. The recent rash of injuries didn't help either.

 

[trojanfan12]

Jeanie should give Kupchak more authority in my opinion. His hands are tied now.

It seems like Mitch has plenty of power. The way they have been able to put together a solid core of young players, has Mitch's fingerprints all over it. It seems like Jim has wisely decided to stay the hell out of Mitch's way.

 

[trojanfan12]

This is most likely the main problem.

Not even close. Jeanie is the closest thing possible to Dr. Buss still being alive. She is the one who operates most like him and shares his vision for the team. Dr. Buss himself, set things up so that Jeanie has ultimate power for that very reason.

 

[trojanfan12]

Its management and vision. I actually think the break up of the Buss girl and Phil could now allow Phil to come in and clean it all up.

Because he's done such a bang up job in New YorK?

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Haven't you heard?...he looks at stats without watching any games. That's all he needs because he "reads and is ridiculously more informed than anyone else here."

Paying too much attention to the talking heads could result in regurgitation. No offense to Wiggy but anytime anyone says "Charles Barkley agreed with me" as if to validate their opinion, it kind of makes me chuckle.

 

[trojanfan12]

Paying too much attention to the talking heads could result in regurgitation. No offense to Wiggy but anytime anyone says "Charles Barkley agreed with me" as if to validate their opinion, it kind of makes me chuckle.

Yeah, he's there for entertainment, not deep analysis. I'm pretty sure that even he doesn't believe a lot of the shit he says. lol

 

[LogicMan]

Trojanfan, first of all happy new year. With regards to whether it should be Phil, perhaps its a good argument that he should have the knicks playing better, especially their defense, which is also horrid. But his record improves, he drafted well in 2015 and had to live with previous orgs handing away draft picks. I think within the next year we probably can judge pass/fail, he would have had 4 years in Ny by then. I agree we should have expected more.

But the bad decisions in LA, they are making a long list. The FA deals this year alone for four years, contracts that you cant move, is just another example. They could have given them 2 years, and then used them for expiring nuggets to make a move in the trade market. They basically landlocked these two guys in LA.

We can agree to disagree, but from what I have seen here in Boston, its starts and ends with ownership.

 

[GNG]

Not even close. Jeanie is the closest thing possible to Dr. Buss still being alive. She is the one who operates most like him and shares his vision for the team. Dr. Buss himself, set things up so that Jeanie has ultimate power for that very reason.

Actually Jeanie's strength is financial management and not talent evaluation.

 

[trojanfan12]

Trojanfan, first of all happy new year. With regards to whether it should be Phil, perhaps its a good argument that he should have the knicks playing better, especially their defense, which is also horrid. But his record improves, he drafted well in 2015 and had to live with previous orgs handing away draft picks. I think within the next year we probably can judge pass/fail, he would have had 4 years in Ny by then. I agree we should have expected more.

Happy New Year to you too. They should definitely be better. The problem Phil has in NY (and why I don't want him anywhere near the Lakers) is that he chose to keep Melo who doesn't play defense and paid him ridiculous money.

Then he put chronically broken players like Rose and Noah around him. He should have moved Melo for whatever he could get and put young guys around Porzingis.

Also, his insistence on the triangle is pretty bad too. I think the game has passed him by. Time for him to retire.

But the bad decisions in LA, they are making a long list. The FA deals this year alone for four years, contracts that you cant move, is just another example. They could have given them 2 years, and then used them for expiring nuggets to make a move in the trade market.
They basically landlocked these two guys in LA.

I and most Lakers fans have no issue with those contracts for a couple of reasons. One, both were brought in for a specific purpose and they are fulfilling that purpose. While I do wish the contracts were at least a year shorter, or at least had a team option on the 4th year, it's not like they can't be moved. If nothing else, there are always teams looking to take on an expiring deal.

Worst case, they will have to keep one or both for that 4th year when the kids should be just about ready to take the next step (hopefully).

What the kids are learning from Mozgov and Deng will be invaluable when it comes time to take the training wheels off.

 

[trojanfan12]

Actually Jeanie's strength is financial management and not talent evaluation.

Which is why she has Mitch. Dr. Buss's strength was the same as Jeanie's. His way (which is also Jeanie's) was to hire basketball people and let them do their jobs. As Mitch has been allowed to do his job, the Lakers have improved and now have the franchise moving in the right direction.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Paying too much attention to the talking heads could result in regurgitation. No offense to Wiggy but anytime anyone says "Charles Barkley agreed with me" as if to validate their opinion, it kind of makes me chuckle.

my point was there are a ton of teams in the NBA with comparable young talent- and a few that actually do have elite young players like Towns, Davis, Giannis, Wiggins, Heyward, Lillard- or even like a Porzingis or Booker or Embiid or Parker this year- guys that you look at right off the bat and can say- YAH- thats gonna be an all star someday- guys that the Lakers will be competing against in the next 2-4 years.

right now i just dont see much if any difference between teams like the Suns or Nuggets and Lakers- except that most of those other teams own their future 1st rounders and a have lot more salary cap flexibility then the Lakers- who spent a ton of cap room this offseason- would have to make room to just sign a max contract- and still owe out 2 first rounders (to the Sixers and Magic) from prior trades.

 

[Kold]

technically i think if they get the timing right on Ingram they can be okay on him? Right? restricted free agency is year 4- same year as those contracts are up....i think thats how that works if i am not mistaken....he will have a cap hold but it wont be that high- not in the 20M range at least-----

but russell and randle will definitely be on large contracts (if they work out) by the time Mozgov and Deng are gone.

I wouldn't say definitely because I think Clarkson may have started a "lesser(not small) deal, keep the team together" culture. Clarkson should have, and would have gotten MUCH more than we gave him if he wanted it all to be about dollars, but he stayed part in because I sincerely think that Clarkson, Russell, and Randle are close. I personally think that the other 2 will do the same as with Ingram, but that's definitely yet to be determined. Even as it stands now, we still have the money to get(not saying we will) a max player with a little bit of maneuvering, but just look at it like this....here's what the projected cap will look like in 2020...

With the projected $120 million cap figure in 2020, max salaries would be $42 million annually for Tier 1, $36 million for Tier 2 and $30 million for Tier 3.

We will sign Randle and Russell before 2020, and if I understand correctly, what they sign for at the time is going to look like a better contract(for the team) in 2020 when Moz, and Deng comes off the books

 

[WiggyRuss]

The situation with the Lakers is systemic. Poor decisions from trades to free agents to coaches to inability to act at crucial times (Kobe). Criticizing players from the front office not to sharp either.

TLance defines some of the situation well. Most concerning is their bottom of the barrel defense culture which is actually worse this year than last. Young players are developing without priority on fundamentals.

The issue is ownership, and the GM. An overhaul is needed. Will the Buss's stand behind their statements about stepping down now that the promise by Jim is not coming due?

Its management and vision. I actually think the break up of the Buss girl and Phil could now allow Phil to come in and clean it all up.

i think that is kind hard to say with guys that are so young- and young guys typically are overmatched defensively when they come in the league-

the thing that concerns me is that they did spend a ton of money- 52$ million in salary this year (in total they spent $200 million dollars on Clarkson, Deng, Mozgov, and Black) and they have the worst defensive team in the league- both efficiency wise- giving up over 110 pts a game, and shooting percentage wise letting their opponents shoot 47.8% per game. I dont think people would have expected them to have the worst defense in the entire league after signing Mozgov and Deng who are primarily defensive players.

just for some perspective- the middle team in the NBA gives up 105 pts a game (Indiana), and 45.2% shooting (Atlanta).

Offensive efficiency the Lakers were 29th last year- and have jumped up to 19th this year. Shooting percentage wise they are 19th in the league this year- and were dead last last year---- so they have gone from being an awful offensive team to a mediocre offensive team this year- so they have shown improvement on offense.

Where they have shown particular improvement offensively is from the 3 pt line- last year they were dead last in the NBA at 31.7% from 3. This year they are 14th in the NBA at 35.8% from 3. That makes sense going from Scott's archaic offense to Walton's more wide open system.

 

[Kold]

As for the next 2-3 years, as I said in the summer, I'm good with where we are. I don't want to trade, and build up a team that can merely compete, and then grow old with the Warriors, Spurs and whomever.
It's title or bust when we have a title team, so just getting somewhere isn't enough. The core we have now will be in their primes as KD, Curry and whomever get old, and then THAT'S the time when we'd have a realistic shot to start putting something together.
As for our core, sometimes you can't project players 1, or 2 years in. I didn't know Curry would be a STAR until he was. I didn't consider Thompson as a legitimate star, until the wcf last year.
Looking at Randle, I don't know what happens, but he is light years ahead of whatever Draymond was in his 2nd year. Clarkson is doing good now, and it looks as if he he'll thrive in the 6th man role.
Russell is the most talented of em all at the moment, he's just very inconsistent at times and we'll see if that changes. As for Ingram, we'll see on that one but he's been a point forward for us at times, but he's very much looked like a rookie at times. For me, it's too early to determine because who knows what'll happen in 3-4 years.

 

[WiggyRuss]

As for the next 2-3 years, as I said in the summer, I'm good with where we are. I don't want to trade, and build up a team that can merely compete, and then grow old with the Warriors, Spurs and whomever.
It's title or bust when we have a title team, so just getting somewhere isn't enough. The core we have now will be in their primes as KD, Curry and whomever get old, and then THAT'S the time when we'd have a realistic shot to start putting something together.
As for our core, sometimes you can't project players 1, or 2 years in. I didn't know Curry would be a STAR until he was. I didn't consider Thompson as a legitimate star, until the wcf last year.
Looking at Randle, I don't know what happens, but he is light years ahead of whatever Draymond was in his 2nd year. Clarkson is doing good now, and it looks as if he he'll thrive in the 6th man role.
Russell is the most talented of em all at the moment, he's just very inconsistent at times and we'll see if that changes. As for Ingram, we'll see on that one but he's been a point forward for us at times, but he's very much looked like a rookie at times. For me, it's too early to determine because who knows what'll happen in 3-4 years.

its a really good point about Curry too- he went from being a pretty good player- to in a very short time frame becoming a great player- simply because he got healthy and entered the prime of his career. That can definitel happen.

Its very hard to project out- who will be an all star and who will be just another guy when guys are 19, 20, 21 years old- sometimes you get a stud like a Towns or Davis or Porzingis or Kyrie - who right off the bat show you that they have elite talent- but that is pretty rare.