What's Next For The Lakers?

[True Lakers Fan]

I just think that Barkley made some good points the other night when i was watching the Dallas/Lakers game.

Kenny was saying how he really enjoyed watching some of the Lakers young talent---- Barkley basically said he wanted tokill himself for the NBA scheduling those teams on national tv......

but the most important thing i think Barkley said is that a LOT of teams have a lot of potentially good young players and that the Lakers dont yet have a guy that you can say is going to be a star- and some other teams DO have that guy---

but basically a ton of teams have a lot of good young talent around the league and that when you compare them- the Lakers certainly dont look to be in any better shape then a great deal of those teams.

The Lakers don't need a star yet. A star won't help them until they have a core of veterans that know how to work with a star. Next year - things will be better

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Lakers don't need a star yet. A star won't help them until they have a core of veterans that know how to work with a star. Next year - things will be better

its been kinda ugly though dude....

im just saying- the Lakers spent a ton of money in the offseason....they spent

12.5 on Clarkson
18 on Deng
16 on Mozgov
6 on Black

they spent a total of 53 million dollars in cap commitments without resigning one of their core-high round picks (Randle/Russell/Ingram)- and have the worst defense in the NBA and are without a doubt a lotto team.....thats not easy to do... (thoguh Portland prob. spent EVEN more- and arent in much better shape except for having a consensus top 15 guy i nLillard).

you will be paying Clarkson, Deng and Mozgov a combined 49 million dollars in the 2019/2020 season......thats ludicrous in my book.

there is a path to success here---- and i will give the front office a TON of credit for the Walton hire- as i think its the best thing they have done in years--- I love the Randle pick for where they got him, I like the Russell pick, and the jury is still very far out on the Ingram pick.....


i just hate that they commited almost 50 million dollars to Mozgov, Deng and Clarkson for each of the next 3 seasons AFTER this season.....it just totally handicaps the ability to add around Ingram/Russell/Randle if/when they work out.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

its been kinda ugly though dude....

im just saying- the Lakers spent a ton of money in the offseason....they spent

12.5 on Clarkson
18 on Deng
16 on Mozgov
6 on Black

they spent a total of 53 million dollars in cap commitments without resigning one of their core-high round picks (Randle/Russell/Ingram)- and have the worst defense in the NBA and are without a doubt a lotto team.....thats not easy to do... (thoguh Portland prob. spent EVEN more- and arent in much better shape except for having a consensus top 15 guy i nLillard).

you will be paying Clarkson, Deng and Mozgov a combined 49 million dollars in the 2019/2020 season......thats ludicrous in my book.

there is a path to success here---- and i will give the front office a TON of credit for the Walton hire- as i think its the best thing they have done in years--- I love the Randle pick for where they got him, I like the Russell pick, and the jury is still very far out on the Ingram pick.....


i just hate that they commited almost 50 million dollars to Mozgov, Deng and Clarkson for each of the next 3 seasons AFTER this season.....it just totally handicaps the ability to add around Ingram/Russell/Randle if/when they work out.

Most people expected that - Mozgov And Deng aren't there to win games. They are there to develop Ingram and Russell into quality players. Black, Robinson, Zubac, Lance and Clarkson all in the need of veteran leadership.
The Lakers had to give the money up and they already knew they weren't good enough last season to attract elite players, so they settled for some declining veterans to be good mentors.

Not only that - if the Lakers hadn't had so many injuries, they might have ben in the 50%.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

The Lakers had to pay someone - they might as well pay it to the best help they can get

 

[WiggyRuss]

Most people expected that - Mozgov And Deng aren't there to win games. They are there to develop Ingram and Russell into quality players. Black, Robinson, Zubac, Lance and Clarkson all in the need of veteran leadership.
The Lakers had to give the money up and they already knew they weren't good enough last season to attract elite players, so they settled for some declining veterans to be good mentors.

Not only that - if the Lakers hadn't had so many injuries, they might have ben in the 50%.

i get and understand that argument- but dont ya think you could have found a couple decent vets that werent 30 years old or older for a combined $140 million dollars over the next 4 years for Deng and Mozgov?

plus the Tarik Black thing---- shit- wouldnt you rather give those minutes to Robinson? guy has looked REALLY REALLY good and is getting paid nothing- and he has a high-lotto pedigree...sometimes guys figure it out late...

ill tell ya- id love if the Cavs would have given Thomas Robinson a shot....he looks like a very good signing by the Lakers.

 

[True Lakers Fan]

i get and understand that argument- but dont ya think you could have found a couple decent vets that werent 30 years old or older for a combined $140 million dollars over the next 4 years for Deng and Mozgov?

The Lakers tried that the year before and failed and they had close to 30 wins. Who in the hell do you think is going to come with 14 wins? Please tell me, I am all ears.

As I told you and I am pretty sure others have told you this as well, The Lakers had to give up the money to some one and they couldn't afford to wait until the best options were gone and players like Durant was not an option for the Lakers for the reasons I mentioned. On the other hand, this team is going to be that much better by June. If they can get healthy and stay healthy, they can still win enough games to be an attractive market and if not then in two years their team will be ready to compete.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The Lakers tried that the year before and failed and they had close to 30 wins. Who in the hell do you think is going to come with 14 wins? Please tell me, I am all ears.

As I told you and I am pretty sure others have told you this as well, The Lakers had to give up the money to some one and they couldn't afford to wait until the best options were gone and players like Durant was not an option for the Lakers for the reasons I mentioned. On the other hand, this team is going to be that much better by June. If they can get healthy and stay healthy, they can still win enough games to be an attractive market and if not then in two years their team will be ready to compete.

dude...i agree with most of this- i just cant get over the fact that they decided to pay Deng and Mozgov a combined $140 million to come to a rebuilding team passed their 30th birthdays.

you gotta have payroll flexibility....i mean- James Jones is a GREAT team guy- one of the best ever....LeBron says that no matter where he goes James Jones is coming- its becuase he is a great vet that teaches the young guys stuff....there might not be a better guy in the league for that and he makes the minimum.

paying a $140M for Deng and Mozgov just drives me batty...and i mean- Mozgov is only playing 22 minutes a night.

as I have said- i do like the Mozgov signing more so then the Deng singing becuase it should have protected Randle and some of the other guys on the defensive end--- you have a shot blocker that can cover up mistakes...i get that- it makes it so randle and nance jr and such dont need to play center where they would be out of position and man-handled by long time NBA pro's......but its not like the defense is even improved at all. Its actually the worst in the league.

i bitched about the Lakers wasting cap spaceo n Brandon Bass last year- but i mean- they just triple downed on that--- okay- i get it- you need some vets.......but what would Timo Mozgov giveyo u that Mo speights cant? i mean,a littlem ore, but 50 million more?

 

[True Lakers Fan]

dude...i agree with most of this- i just cant get over the fact that they decided to pay Deng and Mozgov a combined $140 million to come to a rebuilding team passed their 30th birthdays.

you gotta have payroll flexibility....i mean- James Jones is a GREAT team guy- one of the best ever....LeBron says that no matter where he goes James Jones is coming- its becuase he is a great vet that teaches the young guys stuff....there might not be a better guy in the league for that and he makes the minimum.

paying a $140M for Deng and Mozgov just drives me batty...and i mean- Mozgov is only playing 22 minutes a night.

as I have said- i do like the Mozgov signing more so then the Deng singing becuase it should have protected Randle and some of the other guys on the defensive end--- you have a shot blocker that can cover up mistakes...i get that- it makes it so randle and nance jr and such dont need to play center where they would be out of position and man-handled by long time NBA pro's......but its not like the defense is even improved at all. Its actually the worst in the league.

i bitched about the Lakers wasting cap spaceo n Brandon Bass last year- but i mean- they just triple downed on that--- okay- i get it- you need some vets.......but what would Timo Mozgov giveyo u that Mo speights cant? i mean,a littlem ore, but 50 million more?

Blame the increase in the salary caps which caused a lottery winning for some of that. As I said before if the Lakers had not given that to them, then they would have had to either pay some one else that money or divided among the rookies per cba agreement. It was a windfall for sure, but it was the best they could do

 

[OutlawImmortal]

You really think guys like Dante Exum are better than Clarkson or our other young guys? That's funny. KAT or AD sure, but listing guys like Exum?

 

[trojanfan12]

I honestly thought it was a mistake to go out and sign Mozgov and Deng. Not from the standpoint that I didn't think they would be better, because I did, and they have proved that, but I think the FO should have been looking towards the 2017 draft and try to maintain their pick anyway possible. They still may finish with a bottom 3 record as is, but I think that has proven to be less likely now. Plus it's taking away minutes to the younger core players. IMO this off season was the season to try and add veteran presence and give Russell, Clarkson, and Randle another year of experience and give Ingram as much playing time as possible, and see where that puts you in terms of the draft and then adding veteran pieces.

They are there to help develop the young guys. Also, they aren't taking minutes from any of the young core. Deng is a small forward, he has been starting over Ingram, but Luke has Ingram splitting time between SF and PG. Rumor is that Luke eventually wants to make Ingram the PG.

Mozgov isn't taking minutes because Black is a backup and always will be and Zubac isn't ready yet. They probably will end up losing their pick, but that's fine as long as the young guys keep developing.

 

[trojanfan12]

i get and understand that argument- but dont ya think you could have found a couple decent vets that werent 30 years old or older for a combined $140 million dollars over the next 4 years for Deng and Mozgov?

plus the Tarik Black thing---- shit- wouldnt you rather give those minutes to Robinson? guy has looked REALLY REALLY good and is getting paid nothing- and he has a high-lotto pedigree...sometimes guys figure it out late...

ill tell ya- id love if the Cavs would have given Thomas Robinson a shot....he looks like a very good signing by the Lakers.

On finding guys that weren't 30 or older that could help develop the young guys...no, not really. They needed solid vets who don't really expect to be part of the future with the young core, but could be relied on to mentor the young guys. Mozgov and Deng have provided exactly that.

Tarik Black and Robinson are essentially the same guy as far as what they contribute. Luke is actually looking at playing them together more because they play well off of each other.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

They are there to help develop the young guys. Also, they aren't taking minutes from any of the young core. Deng is a small forward, he has been starting over Ingram, but Luke has Ingram splitting time between SF and PG. Rumor is that Luke eventually wants to make Ingram the PG.

Mozgov isn't taking minutes because Black is a backup and always will be and Zubac isn't ready yet. They probably will end up losing their pick, but that's fine as long as the young guys keep developing.

Hey Trojan, Gordon Hayward is almost 10 years older than Ingram, but let's compare the 2!

 

[WiggyRuss]

Hey Trojan, Gordon Hayward is almost 10 years older than Ingram, but let's compare the 2!

its a very fair point- but you have to think of the context here.

if we are talking about 5-6 years down the road when Ingram is entering his prime at 25-26 years old...okay...he might very well be a better player than Heyward is right now.

Im looking 2-4 years down the line. If you are looking in that time frame of the next 2-4 years- ----I am looking around the rest of the West for teams that have cores that will be around their prime in that time frame. Those are the young cores you will be competing against.

I mean- sure- if you are talking about waiting 5-6 years until russell and ingram are right in the smack dab middle of their primes at 25-27 years old thats one thing- then comparing Heyward doesnt make sense.

but if you are looking at an outlay of the next 2-4 years those are the type of young cores you will be facing in the West-

Heyward (if he resigns), Gobert, Hood, Favors, Exum

Booker, Chriss, Bender, Len, Warren, Bledsoe is only 27

Towns, Wiggins, LaVine, Dunn, Dieng, Shabazz etc...

Davis, Hield, Holliday, Hill

Lillard, MCollum, Crabbe, Harkless, Vonleh

Westbrok, Oladipo, Kanter, Adams

Mudiay, Murra, Jokic, Nurkic, Harris

Russell, Ingram,Randle, Nance Jr., Clarkson


and thats just in the West....2 of the very best young teams are in the East:

Giannis, Parker, Middleton, Delly, Monroe

Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, Covington, tons of extra draft picks (including the Lakers pick)

honestly- i dont know if there is a better young duo id rather have in the entire league than Giannis and Parker.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

its a very fair point- but you have to think of the context here.

if we are talking about 5-6 years down the road when Ingram is entering his prime at 25-26 years old...okay...he might very well be a better player than Heyward is right now.

Im looking 2-4 years down the line. If you are looking in that time frame of the next 2-4 years- ----I am looking around the rest of the West for teams that have cores that will be around their prime in that time frame. Those are the young cores you will be competing against.

I mean- sure- if you are talking about waiting 5-6 years until russell and ingram are right in the smack dab middle of their primes at 25-27 years old thats one thing- then comparing Heyward doesnt make sense.

but if you are looking at an outlay of the next 2-4 years those are the type of young cores you will be facing in the West-

Heyward (if he resigns), Gobert, Hood, Favors, Exum

Booker, Chriss, Bender, Len, Warren, Bledsoe is only 27

Towns, Wiggins, LaVine, Dunn, Dieng, Shabazz etc...

Davis, Hield, Holliday, Hill

Lillard, MCollum, Crabbe, Harkless, Vonleh

Westbrok, Oladipo, Kanter, Adams

Mudiay, Murra, Jokic, Nurkic, Harris

Russell, Ingram,Randle, Nance Jr., Clarkson


and thats just in the West....2 of the very best young teams are in the East:

Giannis, Parker, Middleton, Delly, Monroe

Simmons, Embiid, Saric, Noel, Okafor, Covington, tons of extra draft picks (including the Lakers pick)

honestly- i dont know if there is a better young duo id rather have in the entire league than Giannis and Parker.

That's completely fair, I just don't think you are giving the Lakers core enough credit, and you may believe I'm giving them a bit too much. The Lakers are young, really young, and yet it feels like you believe that you've figured out their ceilings and exactly how good they're going to be already.

Ingram is 19, Russell is 20, Randle is 22, Nance Jr and Clarkson are both 24, Black and Robinson are both 25. That's half the team under the age of 26. I've seen you use age in many of your arguments involving Kyrie, so for you to completely ignore it here makes it seem like you're not exactly unbiased when it comes to the Lakers.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Didn't get to watch the game today but just turned it on and saw Randle has a triple-double. That Lakers core is mighty unimpressive.

 

[wildturkey]

Didn't get to watch the game today but just turned it on and saw Randle has a triple-double. That Lakers core is mighty unimpressive.

He played well. Though it was somewhat comical in the 4th when it became apparent someone let him know he was an assist away from a triple, and then he tried for like the next 3 or 4 possessions to get it. Nothing wrong with that, its just fun to watch

 

[tlance]

The problem that I think some of you are missing is this:

By the time Deng and Mozgov come off the books, the Laker kids will all be making 20 million plus a year. The window for them to add a free agent is in the next 2 summers. They probably will not have the cap space unless they can unload Deng and Mozgov.

I don't mind that they paid them, what sucks is that they signed both to long term deals. Forgoing the opportunity to at least pursue free agents means that the Lakers are essentially banking on all 3 of Russell, Randle and Ingram reaching their ceilings. While that path could lead them to be a contender if all 3 excel, it is more likely that they fall short.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Didn't get to watch the game today but just turned it on and saw Randle has a triple-double. That Lakers core is mighty unimpressive.

dude, i have gone out of my way to say how impressive i think Randle is- i think out of all the guys he has shown the best potential thus far---- even if his defense is atrocious at this point (which pretty much happens to all young big-men that are more offensive minded)

i am not saying the Lakerse young core isnt stocked with potentially very good players- it definitely definitely is.

but so is about another half dozen teams in the West....at this point we just have no clue which team is going to hit on the most guys etc....sure certain teams have advantages--- like the Twolves with Towns and Wiggins---- or the Pelicans with Davis, or the Blazers with Lillard or the Sixers with Simmons and Embiid and a boatload of cap space and extra picks. Or eve the Suns who have a half dozen lotto picks and some guys that look great- including Booker who i think can someday be an ALL NBa type guy- but he is taking his lumps this year getting all the attention on a team with very little veterans.

I think the Lakers get a small advantage from being in LA even if that hasnt really done much for them in the passed few free agency's- but theni think you balance that out with the fact they still owe out 2 first round picks (1 to the Sixers and 1 to Orlando) and have commited a large block of their cap space to Mozgov and Deng. Contrast that tothe Sixers who have a boatload of extra picks and cap space.

I definitely think the Lakers have picked potentially very good players- but a ton of teams in the NBA have talent that compares just as well if not better.....it will be interesting to see which of those teams has guys that develop the best, who add the best free agents, who make the best trades and become good teams.

 

[WiggyRuss]

The problem that I think some of you are missing is this:

By the time Deng and Mozgov come off the books, the Laker kids will all be making 20 million plus a year. The window for them to add a free agent is in the next 2 summers. They probably will not have the cap space unless they can unload Deng and Mozgov.

I don't mind that they paid them, what sucks is that they signed both to long term deals. Forgoing the opportunity to at least pursue free agents means that the Lakers are essentially banking on all 3 of Russell, Randle and Ingram reaching their ceilings. While that path could lead them to be a contender if all 3 excel, it is more likely that they fall short.

technically i think if they get the timing right on Ingram they can be okay on him? Right? restricted free agency is year 4- same year as those contracts are up....i think thats how that works if i am not mistaken....he will have a cap hold but it wont be that high- not in the 20M range at least-----

but russell and randle will definitely be on large contracts (if they work out) by the time Mozgov and Deng are gone.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

dude, i have gone out of my way to say how impressive i think Randle is- i think out of all the guys he has shown the best potential thus far---- even if his defense is atrocious at this point (which pretty much happens to all young big-men that are more offensive minded)

i am not saying the Lakerse young core isnt stocked with potentially very good players- it definitely definitely is.

but so is about another half dozen teams in the West....at this point we just have no clue which team is going to hit on the most guys etc....sure certain teams have advantages--- like the Twolves with Towns and Wiggins---- or the Pelicans with Davis, or the Blazers with Lillard or the Sixers with Simmons and Embiid and a boatload of cap space and extra picks. Or eve the Suns who have a half dozen lotto picks and some guys that look great- including Booker who i think can someday be an ALL NBa type guy- but he is taking his lumps this year getting all the attention on a team with very little veterans.

I think the Lakers get a small advantage from being in LA even if that hasnt really done much for them in the passed few free agency's- but theni think you balance that out with the fact they still owe out 2 first round picks (1 to the Sixers and 1 to Orlando) and have commited a large block of their cap space to Mozgov and Deng. Contrast that tothe Sixers who have a boatload of extra picks and cap space.

I definitely think the Lakers have picked potentially very good players- but a ton of teams in the NBA have talent that compares just as well if not better.....it will be interesting to see which of those teams has guys that develop the best, who add the best free agents, who make the best trades and become good teams.

If there's anything the past few years have taught the franchise, it's that they probably shouldn't put all their eggs in the FA basket. In the past, a team with no stars in a high-profile city like Los Angeles would have been quite appealing. Not really the case anymore with a few recent examples in Aldridge and KD. You have to have something to get something in FA these days. Taking that into consideration, I have no issue with using up a portion of the salary cap in order to get a few pieces that have been missing the past couple of years (a decent rim protector and a wing).

If you improve the product on the court, then it's easier to convince that free agent or that player you're trying to trade for that they're the last piece of the puzzle and will push the team over the top.

It sounded like you were putting the Lakers on the bottom of that list, I don't see them on the bottom. I think they're in better shape than the Suns; and the Sixers and TWolves aren't doing much better in the W column with 'superior' talent at this point.

Randle just needs to work on the fundamentals. He clearly posses the talent to be an all-star in this league one day. He really needs to stop being so reliant on his physicality too. A little finesse around the basket would do him wonders.