Week 3: Virginia Tech @ Pittsburgh (9/15/2012)

[NickVT10]

LB play was bad, secondary was bad but our Dline got manhandled. They had no surge at all

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

oh, the lines were the biggest issue by far....

 

[NickVT10]

Bonner did play like shit, Cole had some nice plays and some not so nice. I would like to see RVD some more and someone with more speed playing Backer than Taylor.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I watched the game back as well after enduring it in person. I really think that both of our lines just got blown up. If you watch, by the time Graham or Shell got to his linemen, he had already gained 4-5 yards. Conversely, the line met our RBs 2 yards in the backfield.

I agree that nobody played with any emotion on our side. They seemed to mail it in and forgot that the other team has talent and wants to win as well.

The most discouraging thing, IMO was the ease with which Pitt moved the ball. They probably went 3 pages into their play book because that is all they had to do.

Run left, counter back, swing pass right, seam route, rinse and repeat. This was little league football but it seemed to be all that they needed to do.

 

[Jhalf]

I either talk to much or need a chalk talk thread for D.

Is this shit useful and interesting to anyone, ha ha.

very much so, thanks for answering my questions. Waiting on TKPs film study is killing me.

 

[robV703]

I skimmed the thread and I think most of these were hit on, but here is my synopsis (on defense because I don't know anything about offense.)

• Our DL is inconsistent. I still think they can be really good, but they don't seem to give 100% effort all the time or something.
• Exum is not a corner (I think people finally agree with me on this)
• Bruce is too fat to hang with people in coverage
• Bonner doesn't seem to be "heady" enough to play FS. He looked lost out there to me.

If I were our coaches this would be my 2-deep for BG:

DE: J.R. Collins, C. Marshall
NT: D. Hopkins, K. Harley
DT: L. Maddy, A. Hopkins
DE: J. Gayle, Z. McCray (not a DT), T. Wilson

Backer: J. G-W, C. Williams
Mike: B. Taylor, J. Tyler
Whip: R. Vandyke, A. Tweedy

FC: D. Manning, D. Bonner
FS: K. Jarrett, K. Fuller
Rov: A. Exum, M. Cole
BC: K. Fuller, A. Exum, D. Bonner

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

I skimmed the thread and I think most of these were hit on, but here is my synopsis (on defense because I don't know anything about offense.)

• Our DL is inconsistent. I still think they can be really good, but they don't seem to give 100% effort all the time or something.
• Exum is not a corner (I think people finally agree with me on this)
• Bruce is too fat to hang with people in coverage
• Bonner doesn't seem to be "heady" enough to play FS. He looked lost out there to me.

If I were our coaches this would be my 2-deep for BG:

DE: J.R. Collins, C. Marshall
NT: D. Hopkins, K. Harley
DT: L. Maddy, A. Hopkins
DE: J. Gayle, Z. McCray (not a DT), T. Wilson

Backer: J. G-W, C. Williams
Mike: B. Taylor, J. Tyler
Whip: R. Vandyke, A. Tweedy

FC: D. Manning, D. Bonner
FS: K. Jarrett, K. Fuller
Rov: A. Exum, M. Cole
BC: K. Fuller, A. Exum, D. Bonner

I wouldn't cal BT "fat" per se. In order to be an effective Mike, he has to be thick though and he is way to big to chill in coverage, I agree. I had never given much thought to JGW at backer but it may work. He is big enough.

I would put Jarrett in front of Exum at BC. He was a corner in HS and a 4 year starter.

I would also put Wilson ahead of McCray.

Otherwise, I agree 100%

 

[NickVT10]

Your 2 deep has some 3 deeps. just saying...

 

[NickVT10]

Was the "counter" play they ran a true counter or just a consistent cutback by their RBs? The whole line would move one way and he would just run off the backside of it where there was no one or someone who would end up missing a tackle...

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Was the "counter" play they ran a true counter or just a consistent cutback by their RBs? The whole line would move one way and he would just run off the backside of it where there was no one or someone who would end up missing a tackle...

Yeah, it may have been more simple than simple. Whatever it was, it worked.

 

[robV703]

I wouldn't cal BT "fat" per se. In order to be an effective Mike, he has to be thick though and he is way to big to chill in coverage, I agree. I had never given much thought to JGW at backer but it may work. He is big enough.

I would put Jarrett in front of Exum at BC. He was a corner in HS and a 4 year starter.

I would also put Wilson ahead of McCray.

Otherwise, I agree 100%

So if Kyle were hurt you would start Jarrett at BC and someone else (Bonner I guess) at FS?

Your 2 deep has some 3 deeps. just saying...

Yes, I co-listed McCray and Wilson at DE and repeated Fuller in the secondary, so I needed to add another (in case of injury.)

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Yeah, I think so.

 

[sparko]

Bonner looks totally lost out there. Get him reps at the easiest secondary position to play. Manning looks better at CB than Exum .. already. Exum is a safety .. period ... If he was more heady and got some reps, he could probably even play whip -- but he's not a corner. I agree with the LB situation. It looks like our "overall" best options at LB are BT, JGW, and RVD. Give Tyler some reps in place of BT to give him rest. If Tweedy is serviceable, give him some reps. As far as D-line goes, give the reps to someone who wants them. If A-Hop is still playing like a softy, bench his ass. If Dadi plays like a lunatic, get him reps. Gayle doesn't look so dominant. I'm starting to wonder if all the weight gain has caught up to him a little. He doesn't look THAT bad but he doesn't look like he's all ACC .. that's for damn sure.

Offensive line?? I don't even know where to begin and I think that -- throughout the season -- this will be our biggest problem and will do us in. Bud will get the defense fired up and ready. They'll scale down the play book and Logan will eventually sharpen (I hope) .. but offensive line? I don't know if anyone is going to have an answer for that. We don't have a RB back there who can help compensate for the lack of run blocking .. Scales looks the best out of the 3 because he makes his own holes and doesn't hesitate like Holmes.

 

[hokiegrad]

definitely agree that Taylor needs to move back to Mike. Love the idea of trying JGW at backer. Hope practices this week have him fighting with Chase and Clarke for that spot, with RVD getting most of the reps at whip.

I'm less sure what to do about the secondary. I hope hope hope Fuller comes back quickly. We look terrible without him. I had hoped that Exum would be able to play corner, but I always had my doubts. He hasn't been terrible, but even so I'm about ready to say move him back to rover. I would not move him to FS... I don't think he has the head for that. I am concerned with moving Jarrett to FS... does he have the head for it? I seem to remember him getting reps there in the spring, and then they quickly switched him and Bonner because that wasn't working. If he's worse than Bonner at FS... but then again, maybe the light just hadn't come on and he's due another chance. Kyle at FS? I would hate moving him from corner, but we may have little choice. I don't know who I'd rather see starting at FC, assuming Kyle moves to either BC or FS. Maybe Bonner's just been overwhelmed at FS and would look better at FC. Maybe Manning really is the better option there already. I trust TG to know his players and figure this out. Not a simple problem.

 

[robV703]

I'm less sure what to do about the secondary. I hope hope hope Fuller comes back quickly. We look terrible without him. I had hoped that Exum would be able to play corner, but I always had my doubts. He hasn't been terrible, but even so I'm about ready to say move him back to rover. I would not move him to FS... I don't think he has the head for that. I am concerned with moving Jarrett to FS... does he have the head for it? I seem to remember him getting reps there in the spring, and then they quickly switched him and Bonner because that wasn't working. If he's worse than Bonner at FS... but then again, maybe the light just hadn't come on and he's due another chance. Kyle at FS? I would hate moving him from corner, but we may have little choice. I don't know who I'd rather see starting at FC, assuming Kyle moves to either BC or FS. Maybe Bonner's just been overwhelmed at FS and would look better at FC. Maybe Manning really is the better option there already. I trust TG to know his players and figure this out. Not a simple problem.

The secondary is just a mess. I want to blame Coach Gray for not figuring out the best combination before the season started, but with so much attrition it's just a hard situation. Looking to the future, the starting four in my depth chart (Manning, Jarrett, Exum, Fuller) is what I expect us to open with against Bama.

 

[VTscores]

Scales looks the best out of the 3 because he makes his own holes and doesn't hesitate like Holmes.

For some reason, Holmes doesn't seem to get that a hole isn't going to open up behind this line. It's not a matter of waiting for it -- more of a matter of squeezing through whatever is available NOW, no matter how small.

 

[Forty_Sixand2]

Jarrett's issue at FS wasn't his head but his lack of being vocal. He is a quiet kid, but who cares. Right now, he is the best player on our defense (including Fuller) and it is time to find a new leader. Get his ass out there and let him lead and make the calls. I almost feel as if he is itching for the opportunity.

 

[VTfoozball]

How come we don't run any bootlegs with LT? Don't you usually run these types of plays when the O-line is weak in the middle and when you have a QB who can run? Also, why no option or pitch outs?....surely MD can block well enough for JC to get some yards on the outside. And finally, where are the freaking screen passes?....I think we have the players to make screen passes or even dump passes over the middle to the RB's or TE's be more effective than running up the middle. Is this stuff too complicated for Stiney?

LT is better moving forwards than sideways. He's got a slow first step. But I agree why not try some things to the outside because the middle is a clogged up shithole. Problem with LT is that with any kind of option play he's going to keep it 90% of the time whether it's the right decision or not. I think he just panics out there. Tyrod was awesome making decisions with the option the few times we used it with him.

We've just got a nightmare of an OC/OL coach combo. Probably in the bottom 10% of FBS football

 

[VTfoozball]

Agreed. The coaches have to recognize this that Ds are selling out to stop the inside run on those 3rd/4th and 1 situations and call something to the outside, to keep defenses honest. It is hard to understand why that hasn't already happened. They can and should call the inside run more often than not in these situations, but they can't call that exclusively or the defense will just sell out and stop it. And we need to work on our FBs blocking...

It's not just sneak situations, it's all the time almost. Look at the way Pitt pushed our D-line around and then try to recall the last time you saw VT's O-line do that against anyone.

 

[VTfoozball]

We tried a bunch of WR screens against GT, but I don't think that's what he was talking about. We need to throw a RB screen. If we did that against GT (or AP or Pitt), I don't remember it. I'm not sure that play is even in the playbook. I would like to see this called about once a game. Every year. This should be a staple of any offense.

Right. VT fans have seen plenty of the WR screen so it's time for something new. When the O-line is this bad you have to find more ways to use the edges of the field