Time to Put Barry Bonds in the HOF

[Liberal Icon]

Put him in the same class with Rose and McGwire. Not saying no to the thought, but fair is fair. And Icon, giving you a "thumbs up" just for finding a sports related board!

I think you are new here. I have been posting here when I find a thread interesting just like I do in the Tennis forum when there is action.

 

[Gooch1034]

Proven PED user or not, his reputation is set and that alone is enough for him to not get in. We didn't need the court to prove to us OJ was a murderer and the same goes for Bonds with PEDs. I wouldn't care if he made it or not into the HOF. I can understand both sides of the argument.

 

[Liberal Icon]

Steroids have been banned in MLB since 1991....it was a shoddy rule though, since there was no testing or penalties...
http://www.bizofbaseball.com/docs/1991Memo_Baseballs_Drug_Policy_And_Prevention_Program.pdf

"Stejskal revealed to The News in February 2005 how he had spoken to Major League Baseball in 1994 and had warned MLB's director of security, Kevin Hallinan, that the sport had a growing steroid problem. Stejskal said that he told Hallinan that during the course of Equine, he and FBI agent Bill Randall (the other agent involved in the three and a half year probe) learned that some of baseball's big names were using steroids, including Canseco and McGwire. But Stejskal reiterates in the column how his warnings were ignored."

And if steroids had been banned in 1994 how come they ignored the warnings by FBI at the time and MLB and the holier than thou hypocrites in the media and of the BWAA all cheered the 1998 home-run chase of Mark McGwire and Sammy "America has been very, very good to me" Sosa?

 

[Liberal Icon]

Proven PED user or not, his reputation is set and that alone is enough for him to not get in. We didn't need the court to prove to us OJ was a murderer and the same goes for Bonds with PEDs. I wouldn't care if he made it or not into the HOF. I can understand both sides of the argument.

Therefore, the HOF is some sanctimonious place where only the morally superior are admitted even those whose performance everybody agrees were solid long before they are accused are shunned? And now we compare Barry Bonds a baseball layer whose only infringement is being accused of steroids use to a double murderer, OJ? Either we viscerally hate them because they both have the same skin color or we are very limited in our vocabulary when it comes to comparisons.

 

[calsnowskier]

Therefore, the HOF is some sanctimonious place where only the morally superior are admitted even those whose performance everybody agrees were solid long before they are accused are shunned? And now we compare Barry Bonds a baseball layer whose only infringement is being accused of steroids use to a double murderer, OJ? Either we viscerally hate them because they both have the same skin color or we are very limited in our vocabulary when it comes to comparisons.

To be fair, OJ is only an accused murderer, just like Bonds is only an accused PED user.

Most rational-thinking humans believe both did what they are accused of, though.

But Bonds is being punished for his accusation while OJ is being punished for something different entirely. He is NOT in prison for murder. He is in prison for (I think) kidnapping, theft and battery.

 

[Liberal Icon]

giants' fans look at barry the same way Reds' fans look at Pete...both sides are delusional

I have a co-worker with a bumper sticker on his wall that says "The only place Bonds picture belongs in is the CVS Chain Wall of Shame"

Naaah. We are not. We are realists who hate hypocrisy, double standards and outright partisanship served as objective stew. In addition we Giants fans are all aware of the sycophantic fans who cheer players like Jason Giambi, A-Rod et al who all were found to have used steroids as long as they played for their teams.

 

[Liberal Icon]

To be fair, OJ is only an accused murderer, just like Bonds is only an accused PED user.

Most rational-thinking humans believe both did what they are accused of, though.

But Bonds is being punished for his accusation while OJ is being punished for something different entirely. He is NOT in prison for murder. He is in prison for (I think) kidnapping, theft and battery.

OJ was found guilty in civil court for the double murder of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman. Bonds has not been found guilty in the courts of steroids use. Besides can any comparison be made except the fact that they have the same skin color?

 

[StanMarsh51]

"Stejskal revealed to The News in February 2005 how he had spoken to Major League Baseball in 1994 and had warned MLB's director of security, Kevin Hallinan, that the sport had a growing steroid problem. Stejskal said that he told Hallinan that during the course of Equine, he and FBI agent Bill Randall (the other agent involved in the three and a half year probe) learned that some of baseball's big names were using steroids, including Canseco and McGwire. But Stejskal reiterates in the column how his warnings were ignored."

And if steroids had been banned in 1994 how come they ignored the warnings by FBI at the time and MLB and the holier than thou hypocrites in the media and of the BWAA all cheered the 1998 home-run chase of Mark McGwire and Sammy "America has been very, very good to me" Sosa?

The Selig administration has been widely criticized for the way they handled the issue in the '90s. That doesn't take away from the fact that it was still on the list of banned substances.

 

[calsnowskier]

OJ was found guilty in civil court for the double murder of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman. Bonds has not been found guilty in the courts of steroids use. Besides can any comparison be made except the fact that they have the same skin color?

The racial thing is tired, dude.

Clemens isn't black.
Palmeiro isn't black.
Giambi isn't black.
Aaron IS black.
Puckett was black, with a lot of very questionable personal habits, but was loved.

It is a personality clash between Bonds and the writers. Not a racial clash.

 

[Liberal Icon]

The Selig administration has been widely criticized for the way they handled the issue in the '90s. That doesn't take away from the fact that it was still on the list of banned substances.

Yes it does. And it shows some obscene level of hypocrisy here.

 

[Liberal Icon]

The racial thing is tired, dude.

Clemens isn't black.
Palmeiro isn't black.
Giambi isn't black.
Aaron IS black.
Puckett was black, with a lot of very questionable personal habits, but was loved.

It is a personality clash between Bonds and the writers. Not a racial clash.

I doubt whether Clemens in any discussion would be compared to Clemens Palmeiro, Giambi et al. My point is in any comparison of the Bonds situation, it is ridiculous to link it with someone accused of double murderer, except our own prejudice prevents us seeing anything save color!

 

[Liberal Icon]

I doubt whether Clemens in any discussion would be compared to OJ Simpson, a double murderer. My point is in any comparison of the Bonds situation, it is ridiculous to link it with someone accused of double murderer, except our own prejudice prevents us seeing anything save color!

I doubt whether Clemens in any discussion would be compared to OJ Simpson, a double murderer. My point is in any comparison of the Bonds situation, it is ridiculous to link it with someone accused of double murderer, except our own prejudice prevents us seeing anything save color!

 

[StanMarsh51]

Yes it does. And it shows some obscene level of hypocrisy here.

Well it wasn't the Selig administration that banned steroids...it was Vincent who did so. It's not as if Selig banned roids then turned a blind eye.

And all that still doesn't change the fact that roids were banned.

 

[Liberal Icon]

The racial thing is tired, dude.

Clemens isn't black.
Palmeiro isn't black.
Giambi isn't black.
Aaron IS black.
Puckett was black, with a lot of very questionable personal habits, but was loved.

It is a personality clash between Bonds and the writers. Not a racial clash.

Those of us who personally knew McGwire and Bonds know that McGwire thumbed his nose at the sportswriters in the Bay Area, was sullen and not grant any interviews. He only came out of his shell during the home run chase of 1998 at the coaxing of Sammy Sosa. In essence McGwire was no fan of the writers yet they became his cheer leaders during the chase. I can post the effusive parise and favorable coverage he garnered during the chase by the same writer who want Bonds to be guillotined in the altar of HOF.

 

[calsnowskier]

Well it wasn't the Selig administration that banned steroids...it was Vincent who did so. It's not as if Selig banned roids then turned a blind eye.

And all that still doesn't change the fact that roids were banned.

"Banned" with no testing is like having a game with no umpires.

And sand paper was banned. And "corked" bats. And "Greenies". And hitters are supposed to attempt to get out of the way of a pitched ball. And pitchers are supposed to keep their foot on the rubber while pitching.

 

[Liberal Icon]

Well it wasn't the Selig administration that banned steroids...it was Vincent who did so. It's not as if Selig banned roids then turned a blind eye.

And all that still doesn't change the fact that roids were banned.

Therefore Faye Vincent found it important to ban it but the Commissioner who followed him, Selig thought it was all rubbish and insignificant? Got it. What about the holier than thou baseball sportswriters? Did they also not find it appalling since during the chase, a writer found Andro, a precursor drug in the locker of McGwire?

 

[StanMarsh51]

"Banned" with no testing is like having a game with no umpires.

And sand paper was banned. And "corked" bats. And "Greenies". And hitters are supposed to attempt to get out of the way of a pitched ball. And pitchers are supposed to keep their foot on the rubber while pitching.

Which still doesn't change that it was banned and illegal, correct?

I'm not arguing whether players should or shouldn't be kept out of the HOF for doing roids, but what I am arguing is the claim that they didn't break any rule(s), which is false.

 

[BoiseMike19]

McGwire, yes (assuming you believe McGwire is a HOFer).

But lumping him in with Rose is a joke. Rose broke THE rule. Bonds didn't break any rules.

Have you seen that guys head?

 

[calsnowskier]

Those of us who personally knew McGwire and Bonds know that McGwire thumbed his nose at the sportswriters in the Bay Area, was sullen and not grant any interviews. He only came out of his shell during the home run chase of 1998 at the coaxing of Sammy Sosa. In essence McGwire was no fan of the writers yet they became his cheer leaders during the chase. I can post the effusive parise and favorable coverage he garnered during the chase by the same writer who want Bonds to be guillotined in the altar of HOF.

If it is such a racial thing, why hasn't the media gone after Aaron and his "Greenie" use? Why have they essentially blackballed Bagwell and Clemens? Why did they not out Puckett as the DB he was while he was alive?

Because they are sanctimonious hypocrites. Not racists. Bonds disliked the media because he knew they didn't care about him, so he clammed up. The media are self-serving assholes, so they have decided to bury Bonds because he basically called them out.

Simple as that.

 

[calsnowskier]

Which still doesn't change that it was banned and illegal, correct?

I'm not arguing whether players should or shouldn't be kept out of the HOF for doing roids, but what I am arguing is the claim that they didn't break any rule(s), which is false.

I used quotes because I do not conceded that fact. A memo does not make a rule. Especially a rule to be placed on par with gambling.